gingerjon Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 9 hours ago, Phil said: You mean no one gives a flying ###### about it, but then you knew that was point didn’t you? I'm not sure how you get to that point? It literally led the news for days. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 8 hours ago, Kayakman said: That explains why they tried to juice me to get in...always wondered about that...now I know. Thanks. They saw you coming. Just been reading my Paris guidebook and it's backed up online: Notre Dame was free to enter. The Tower and the crypt cost an entry fee but the cathedral itself was gratis and for nowt. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honor James Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 15 hours ago, gingerjon said: Yes, imagine. Then it might have been on the news. As it is, no one has heard of it. Grenfell? It was on the news. A lot. Which channels do you watch? The BBC for one has also done a Panorama type special on it. As to social injustice and inequalities in general, to some extent these things do still exist in Britain, yes. Some do, in a-semi inevitable state, almost everywhere. But judging by remarks on this forum from time to time, it might do a few people good to get out and about a bit around the world; skip the tourist-trail, cheap booze-up holiday; get load of what social injustice and inequality really can be. You could start with Mexico City (for one example) and Venezuela isn't looking too good these days. Or you could give Zimbabwe a once-over; they would welcome your British pounds or better still, your US dollars. Give them to the people you see though, not to the goverment; that sort of money just disappears into an abyss. “The purpose of life is to live it, to taste experience to the utmost, to reach out eagerly and without fear for newer and richer experience.” Eleanor Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, Honor James said: Grenfell? It was on the news. A lot. Which channels do you watch? The BBC for one has also done a Panorama type special on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 4 hours ago, gingerjon said: They saw you coming. Just been reading my Paris guidebook and it's backed up online: Notre Dame was free to enter. The Tower and the crypt cost an entry fee but the cathedral itself was gratis and for nowt. Yes, others have mentioned that to me also (my daughter being one), but on the day in question the free entry area required a fee for some reason...some type of special fee..I have no idea if it was a one off or not. Certainly fits the definition of 'cash grab'. I have a funny feeling you might see more of these in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Things burned in the Notre Dame fire. Beautiful, ancient things for sure, but still things. People burned in the Grenfell Tower fire. People are more important than things. Or they should be. Powerful people will ensure that Notre Dame is rebuilt as quickly as possible. Powerful people are prevaricating and obstructing the Grenfell disaster inquiry and many people are still living in temporary accommodation. Such are the priorities in a society where things are more important than people "Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 16 minutes ago, Phil said: Things burned in the Notre Dame fire. Beautiful, ancient things for sure, but still things. People burned in the Grenfell Tower fire. People are more important than things. Or they should be. Powerful people will ensure that Notre Dame is rebuilt as quickly as possible. Powerful people are prevaricating and obstructing the Grenfell disaster inquiry and many people are still living in temporary accommodation. Such are the priorities in a society where things are more important than people That's a very simplistic argument that ignores a few facts, like the two events being in different countries for a start and ignores the massive positive reaction to the tragedy at Grenfell, charitable donations were made from all over the country, funds were available for the victims and the vast majority have been rehoused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, Shadow said: That's a very simplistic argument that ignores a few facts, like the two events being in different countries for a start and ignores the massive positive reaction to the tragedy at Grenfell, charitable donations were made from all over the country, funds were available for the victims and the vast majority have been rehoused. I have a lot of sympathy with the argument that the victims of Grenfell have been shabbily treated. Because they have been. From the original desire to find a culprit who fitted the 'illegal so deserving' argument to the odd obsession that some, including posters on here, had with every single fraud case that arose. There was a proper humanitarian reaction to Grenfell despite some choosing to sneer. Where there has been a failure has been in government, local and national. Charitable donations for the essentials of life - housing etc - should only go so far. The people, rich and poor, responded well. The government in its failure to see through so many of the things it should have done - proper rehousing, sprinklers elsewhere, cladding issues etc etc etc - has been found to be woeful. If we weren't all so obsessed with Brexit I suspect it would have been bigger news. With the response to Notre Dame I don't have much of a problem. It's mostly charitable and individuals. That seems fine. It shouldn't fall on governments to restore buildings however important they are to CIVILISATION. There are some variations in that but I doubt any French cathedral will ever see any money committed by Donald Trump so whilst it's an obvious frustration that he's happy to give money to French bricks but not US citizens in Puerto Rico or Michigan, it's not actually going to happen in reality anyway. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 They should stick a big glass roof on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Room Lizard Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 25 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: They should stick a big glass roof on it Maybe thats why the Clown Marcon has said, "the restoration will be done in 5 years!". Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyscoot Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 It is a simplistic argument and one that you'd never stop if you prioritised "people" over "things". What you can't ignore is that France is different to the UK and may or may not have different cultural attitudes. You also can't ignore the symbolic nature of it. It's synonymous with the country and it's values. Would we see similar outpouring if St Pauls Cathedral had gone up in flames? I reckon we might. If someone is willing to give a huge sum of money, it seems a bit crass to then pick at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laïcité Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 stone giant Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 On 17/04/2019 at 15:49, Phil said: Such are the priorities in a society where things are more important than people People pay to watch rugby league every weekend while there are kids in Africa starving. I'm sure you've seen the adverts. Just £10 a month can provide clean water etc. Nah, I'll go and watch Wigan Warriors instead. I'm not saying it's right. We're all guilty of doing it, mind. I don't watch Wigan Warriors though. Southampton FC I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 In case you missed it, the French did post a response to the suggestion as to what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Decimus Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 On 18/04/2019 at 15:11, andyscoot said: It is a simplistic argument and one that you'd never stop if you prioritised "people" over "things". What you can't ignore is that France is different to the UK and may or may not have different cultural attitudes. You also can't ignore the symbolic nature of it. It's synonymous with the country and it's values. Would we see similar outpouring if St Pauls Cathedral had gone up in flames? I reckon we might. If someone is willing to give a huge sum of money, it seems a bit crass to then pick at them. It's probably more like Big Ben going up. God, people were annoyed enough that it'd be out of action for a few years. Edit: by Big Ben I obviously mean the clock tower holding the bell. A Widnesian in Ireland blog What is the best system for Super League? An honest appraisal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Decimus Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 I was like others sad to see such a cultural icon like that go up in flames and was relieved that it wasn't totally destroyed: I understand and agree with all the arguments about why it was tragic. However, take this example. I posted this picture on a WhatsApp group I have with some mates. One of my mates replied with 'Now that was a little too far.' We've always had a bit of dark humour but apparently an ancient monument is where you draw the line! A Widnesian in Ireland blog What is the best system for Super League? An honest appraisal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Knight Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Unfortunately profanity is not allowed on here or else I would have expressed my real thoughts on this clown’s proposal. You know times are bad when something that reads as satire is actually a real opinion. You gotta wonder what the end game is here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanaBull Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Yesterday you were extolling the hilarity of someone’s propensity for being an agent provocateur. Ribs not as tickled by this bloke? Not the least bit impressed by his talent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Knight Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, CanaBull said: Yesterday you were extolling the hilarity of someone’s propensity for being an agent provocateur. Ribs not as tickled by this bloke? Not the least bit impressed by his talent? You really need to compare like with like. They’re not remotely the same in this case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanaBull Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 But of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Knight Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, CanaBull said: But of course. Yes a tweet is not NEARLY the same as writing a whole article which is genuinely serious and makes ridiculous suggestions off the back of tragedy. The fact that you can’t differentiate between the two says more about yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanaBull Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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