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Toronto Affect Still to be felt


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11 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

I can help you there, taxable income is total income minus allowable deductions.  A few of those remain, the rest (such as the basic exemption, 65+ age exemption, exemption for supporting a non-working spouse etc.) were converted from deductions to credits which equal the basic rate (15% now) multiplied by the amount which was previously deductible back in the 1980s; those exemption amounts automatically increase with inflation each year up to (if memory serves) a maximum of 3%.

That said, the rates you quoted are just for federal income tax.  Provincial income tax rates vary from province to province, as do the provincial equivalents of those federal exemptions amounts.

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Thanks for clearing that up. 

 

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2 hours ago, Smudger06 said:

I've been to Canada several times mate, through work, not Toronto though, I've also got relatives over in Alberta, right out in the sticks, my grandfather's brother went there so my generation of my relatives are Canadian. They still have a feeling of belonging to England and Yorkshire. Believe it or not the vast majority of people over here have affection for Canada and Australia as well. 

When I cross the pond these days I take my kids to Florida, so a Sports trip to Toronto isn't going to happen for me as for just a little more money I can get a return flight and 14 nights in Orlando for 4 rather than a return flight and 3 nights in Toronto for 2.

TWP is a Rugby League Club so I don't want it to fail, the genuine fans in the Greater Toronto Area it's managed to hook would be left abandoned and it wouldn't be down to us fans in the North of England it would be down to its own ownership, either jumping ship or switching codes when things got a bit too pricey........

We are in it for the long haul..forget those Florida trips now...come to Toronto instead...the people are nicer.

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3 hours ago, Smudger06 said:

No.....nothing exposed or displayed........merely a response to the many derogatory and condescending comments on this thread and plenty of others on this forum. 

Ahh..its just the Aussies on here getting your goat...the old battle continues.  We Canadians, we will play the peacemaker as aleways.

I really think it is the close minded mentality that they have a problem with...the fear of expansion being the best example.

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2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I hope you don't mind me quoting only a part of your last post. On the first two lines, I agree with you.

The numbers you quote in your comments about Penrith could be multiplied by 10 times if all the other Australian NRL districts were counted. A much bigger percentage of these players will become super league quality than we ever see represented each week on the Australian television coverage. There are also loads of quality players who just don't stay long as NRL first teamers.

The average tenure of a player in the NRL first grade is very short. The reason for this, is the white-heat of competition for places. These players then, play reserve grade, or go back to country football or drop out. If I were running Toronto I'd be looking there for players to fill my squad if the salary cap doesn't prevent them looking.

I can tell you love Rugby League, Parky and for that I salute you. We need bl**dy good answers to all your objections. Not to shut you up, but to make sure, your worst fears don't become reality and the whole game is destroyed. Your devil's advocate stance presents a very serious challenge to all the dreamers naivety so its a very valuable contribution to the debate. 

Toronto (and any others) should engage with the existing amateur Canadian RL (as the NY people seem to have begun with USARL) and begin the long development process. That they haven't done so, doesn't inspire confidence.

Robert Elstone (and the SL chairmen, owners) will, I'm sure, be mindful of your fears and will be trying to work out a way to let these people in at the right level and at the right pace, without ''sucking the blood out of us'' here. I just hope they can find a way. Rejecting them, out of hand just seems shabby.

As a footnote, why aren't we producing 9000 junior players in our districts? I believe we have done, what you accuse Toronto of, and neglected our ''duty'' to foster the game in new areas. Its not the games fault. I believe it can be done, if its done right because this is the greatest sporting product on earth.

Very well said Irish, a little different from your previous post which seemed like a rant against anyone who dared to question anything re North America and Rugby League, like Mr Parksider I have long questioned could this 'expansion' process be sustainable and would it be of any harm or consequence to the game in the UK, when as you put it objections are raised, I would prefer to term them "questions that still need to be answered" we do not get many logical replies forthcoming from the questions that are asked, you do though put it excellently when you said "We need bl**dy good answers to all your objections. Not to shut you up, but to make sure, your worst fears don't become reality and the whole game is destroyed" 

I have said on numerous occasions that TWP should be used as a learning curve before other teams from NA are allowed into our league system, why jump headlong into the unknown when we have the perfect opportunity to assess, judge, evaluate, appraise, anylise and determine what is good and the not so good of NA teams in our league by using TWP as an example, we can then determine and set criteria for an entry level to the British game. I liken TWP as a prototype which can be tweaked and modified to get to the stage which will be both beneficial for the game over here and also new clubs  with desires over there, if TWP was a factory manufactured product no company would go into "full production" until the product is proven, the RFL and SL should in my opinion do exactly the same before accepting new clubs from across the Atlantic.

How long would I give it, 7 years of learning to get it right, if TWP are still around then and making a success of it I am very sure that others would want to come to the party, why miss the opportunity of accepting applicants that want to join now I hear people saying, it is because we simply do not know if it will be detrimental or beneficial to the game in general, hand on heart and using some grey matter all those who are firmly in the expansion camp can not tell me what will be forthcoming if we jump into the process now and let 2 new teams in 2020, in my way of doing things at least we can have some insight into what will transpire using one club as an example.

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8 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Ahh..its just the Aussies on here getting your goat...the old battle continues.  We Canadians, we will play the peacemaker as aleways.

I really think it is the close minded mentality that they have a problem with...the fear of expansion being the best example.

Would that be in the beer tents behind the posts?

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4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Would that be in the beer tents behind the posts?

Oh ya..that brewery will have a tent in the beer garden...and they will be selling it in the stadium stands also...they are one of the craft brewers at the event.  Previously they had the schedule on the cans ...I'm sure these ones will sell out quickly as collectables though.

SEVEN YEARS HARRY!  You want 7 years before another team comes in?  Come On Harry...what about the concept of striking while the iron is hot...you would pound with a hammer on cooled high carbon steel until the end of time to form it...you must strike while the steel is hot!

The time to move on expansion is now...I think that is pretty clear.

 

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Very well said Irish, a little different from your previous post which seemed like a rant against anyone who dared to question anything re North America and Rugby League, like Mr Parksider I have long questioned could this 'expansion' process be sustainable and would it be of any harm or consequence to the game in the UK, when as you put it objections are raised, I would prefer to term them "questions that still need to be answered" we do not get many logical replies forthcoming from the questions that are asked, you do though put it excellently when you said "We need bl**dy good answers to all your objections. Not to shut you up, but to make sure, your worst fears don't become reality and the whole game is destroyed" 

I have said on numerous occasions that TWP should be used as a learning curve before other teams from NA are allowed into our league system, why jump headlong into the unknown when we have the perfect opportunity to assess, judge, evaluate, appraise, anylise and determine what is good and the not so good of NA teams in our league by using TWP as an example, we can then determine and set criteria for an entry level to the British game. I liken TWP as a prototype which can be tweaked and modified to get to the stage which will be both beneficial for the game over here and also new clubs  with desires over there, if TWP was a factory manufactured product no company would go into "full production" until the product is proven, the RFL and SL should in my opinion do exactly the same before accepting new clubs from across the Atlantic.

How long would I give it, 7 years of learning to get it right, if TWP are still around then and making a success of it I am very sure that others would want to come to the party, why miss the opportunity of accepting applicants that want to join now I hear people saying, it is because we simply do not know if it will be detrimental or beneficial to the game in general, hand on heart and using some grey matter all those who are firmly in the expansion camp can not tell me what will be forthcoming if we jump into the process now and let 2 new teams in 2020, in my way of doing things at least we can have some insight into what will transpire using one club as an example.

Seven years wow fmd thats a little conservative

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1 hour ago, Kayakman said:

Ahh..its just the Aussies on here getting your goat...the old battle continues.  We Canadians, we will play the peacemaker as aleways.

I really think it is the close minded mentality that they have a problem with...the fear of expansion being the best example.

Haha some Aussies, not all, and some southerners, not all.....

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

......I have said on numerous occasions that TWP should be used as a learning curve before other teams from NA are allowed into our league system, why jump headlong into the unknown when we have the perfect opportunity to assess, judge, evaluate, appraise, anylise and determine what is good and the not so good of NA teams ……….. I liken TWP as a prototype which can be tweaked and modified to get to the stage which will be both beneficial for the game over here and also new clubs  with desires over there, if TWP was a factory manufactured product no company would go into "full production" until the product is proven, the RFL and SL should in my opinion do exactly the same before accepting new clubs from across the Atlantic.

How long would I give it, 7 years of learning to get it right...…… 

I like your analogy or a prototype, which is tested and proven before roll-out, but seven years is a long time.

51 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

SEVEN YEARS HARRY!  You want 7 years before another team comes in?  Come On Harry...what about the concept of striking while the iron is hot...you would pound with a hammer on cooled high carbon steel until the end of time to form it...you must strike while the steel is hot!

The time to move on expansion is now...I think that is pretty clear.

 

Harry, you'd have to factor in David Argyles willingness to keep losing money as the only representative from the North American continent. I know he's a very rich man, but I've never met one who's willing to throw money away. I'm sure he believes what he is putting in is seed money (albeit on a much bigger scale than anything we've seen before in RL) and fully expects that seed to bear fruit in the (not to distant) future. More N.A. teams will surely hasten the influx of new money from sponsors, television, blah, blah.... so I think asking him to wait seven years is asking a lot. I think our ''due diligence'' process needs to be robust but the period of analysis must be brief in respect to these new investors.

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57 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Oh ya..that brewery will have a tent in the beer garden...and they will be selling it in the stadium stands also...they are one of the craft brewers at the event.  Previously they had the schedule on the cans ...I'm sure these ones will sell out quickly as collectables though.

SEVEN YEARS HARRY!  You want 7 years before another team comes in?  Come On Harry...what about the concept of striking while the iron is hot...you would pound with a hammer on cooled high carbon steel until the end of time to form it...you must strike while the steel is hot!

The time to move on expansion is now...I think that is pretty clear.

 

No, no and thrice no, I would wager when you are out in the wilds on some craggy rocks you most probably practice "look before you leap" stepping blindly could result in a catastrophic situation, so be cautious...... now that is a pretty clear common sense approach to adopt.

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15 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

Haha some Aussies, not all, and some southerners, not all.....

Don't let them get to you Man...keep the faith.

Long Live League!

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10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

No, no and thrice no, I would wager when you are out in the wilds on some craggy rocks you most probably practice "look before you leap" stepping blindly could result in a catastrophic situation, so be cautious...... now that is a pretty clear common sense approach to adopt.

Of course you always plan and prepare for the obvious and unknown....you never know what can pop up and a slip on the cliff face when hiking from base camp can be fatal when on ones own.  It doesn't mean you don't go or cancel the trip FOR SEVEN YEARS! 

Either way...your seven year window is already at 3 and 1/2 years so I say we meet you in the middle....times already up...time to GROW!

Watch the game on Sunday....observe the crowd...we have a winner here Harry...a full on winner!  I say put the whip to that stallion.

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5 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I like your analogy or a prototype, which is tested and proven before roll-out, but seven years is a long time.

Harry, you'd have to factor in David Argyles willingness to keep losing money as the only representative from the North American continent. I know he's a very rich man, but I've never met one who's willing to throw money away. I'm sure he believes what he is putting in is seed money (albeit on a much bigger scale than anything we've seen before in RL) and fully expects that seed to bear fruit in the (not to distant) future. More N.A. teams will surely hasten the influx of new money from sponsors, television, blah, blah.... so I think asking him to wait seven years is asking a lot. I think our ''due diligence'' process needs to be robust but the period of analysis must be brief in respect to these new investors.

Due Diligence can't be rushed, it can either be done properly or not at all, you can either cover all the bases and be as certain as possible or take a chance that all will be OK, it meshes perfectly with my business analogy, no good buisness would enter i to any transaction without a full thorough proper Due Diligence.

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1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Due Diligence can't be rushed, it can either be done properly or not at all, you can either cover all the bases and be as certain as possible or take a chance that all will be OK, it meshes perfectly with my business analogy, no good buisness would enter i to any transaction without a full thorough proper Due Diligence.

The due diligence has been done...the course is set and the craft underway...supplies are packed and stored properly, you always get butterflies in the belly when you start to paddle across large open water to a yet invisible shore (believe me I know)....there might be danger but you have a belief in your training and performance....you have never felt more excited and alive at the same time.....

The Wolfpack is hunting...the hunt is currently on....

Thus this weeks prey...the Old Swinton/British Lion!

"Hunt With The Pack!"

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3 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Of course you always plan and prepare for the obvious and unknown....you never know what can pop up and a slip on the cliff face when hiking from base camp can be fatal when on ones own.  It doesn't mean you don't go or cancel the trip FOR SEVEN YEARS! 

Either way...your seven year window is already at 3 and 1/2 years so I say we meet you in the middle....times already up...time to GROW!

Watch the game on Sunday....observe the crowd...we have a winner here Harry...a full on winner!  I say put the whip to that stallion.

On my 7 years perhaps I have not been clear, I consider the clock is already ticking, information has most probably already been gleaned it was slow to start with but pace and monentum is gaining speed, you entered the league in 2017, so by the end of 2023 we will be ready to go or not

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4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

On my 7 years perhaps I have not been clear, I consider the clock is already ticking, information has most probably already been gleaned it was slow to start with but pace and monentum is gaining speed, you entered the league in 2017, so by the end of 2023 we will be ready to go or not

We are ready now!...like a hungry wolf, salivating and wanting to hunt...ready to go!.You can't stop us with a leash designed for a wee tamed puppy breed like you have over there.  The expanses of the taiga call to us...there is deep longing for the hunt  We have tasted the flesh of the Great Rhino and we want more.

WE GO!

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

On my 7 years perhaps I have not been clear, I consider the clock is already ticking, information has most probably already been gleaned it was slow to start with but pace and monentum is gaining speed, you entered the league in 2017, so by the end of 2023 we will be ready to go or not

People are not happy over here with you Harry Stottle!

image1.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

I have said on numerous occasions that TWP should be used as a learning curve before other teams from NA are allowed into our league system, why jump headlong into the unknown when we have the perfect opportunity to assess, judge, evaluate, appraise, anylise and determine what is good and the not so good of NA teams in our league by using TWP as an example, we can then determine and set criteria for an entry level to the British game. I liken TWP as a prototype which can be tweaked and modified to get to the stage which will be both beneficial for the game over here and also new clubs  with desires over there, if TWP was a factory manufactured product no company would go into "full production" until the product is proven, the RFL and SL should in my opinion do exactly the same before accepting new clubs from across the Atlantic.

Although i agree with you I would state that you wouldn't get a true reference on North American expansion without 3 or 4 teams. The additional teams would give you better data sets for extrapolation and data models.

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I think once the Ontario Rugby League is up and running again, including Junior Age Grades we will all be very happy. Looking forward to the day Ontario U18s can play Yorkshire U18s and be competitive on the field, that would be a true mark of success we could all be proud of.....

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Just now, Smudger06 said:

I think once the Ontario Rugby League is up and running again, including Junior Age Grades we will all be very happy. Looking forward to the day Ontario U18s can play Yorkshire U18s and be competitive on the field, that would be a true mark of success we could all be proud of.....

Could lead to a State of Origin Series.....15 years from now, Yorkshire, Lancashire, Cumbria, Ontario & Occitanie (French Region where Toulouse & Catalans are located, including the RL Department of Aude (in between them)) 

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3 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

Could lead to a State of Origin Series.....15 years from now, Yorkshire, Lancashire, Cumbria, Ontario & Occitanie (French Region where Toulouse & Catalans are located, including the RL Department of Aude (in between them)) 

That my friend would be the perfect end game, although I'd like a South East representative as well.

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21 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

Could lead to a State of Origin Series.....15 years from now, Yorkshire, Lancashire, Cumbria, Ontario & Occitanie (French Region where Toulouse & Catalans are located, including the RL Department of Aude (in between them)) 

15 years from nothing to originate teams, organise leagues, formulate centres of excellence for the elite players in Ontario to develop through to be good enough to compete with those English counties you mention, no disrespect smudger but what planet are you visiting earth from, Rugby League is organic it will take a long time from germination to grow and flourish when planted, to quote Jim Royale,15 years my R'se.

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20 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

15 years from nothing to originate teams, organise leagues, formulate centres of excellence for the elite players in Ontario to develop through to be good enough to compete with those English counties you mention, no disrespect smudger but what planet are you visiting earth from, Rugby League is organic it will take a long time from germination to grow and flourish when planted, to quote Jim Royale,15 years my R'se.

You don't know what you are talking about Harry...the kids want in on the Wolfpack!

This is the current situation on the ground over here at the moment.

20190425_110903.jpg

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34 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

You don't know what you are talking about Harry...the kids want in on the Wolfpack!

This is the current situation on the ground over her at the moment.

20190425_110903.jpg

Sorry K'man but maybe this could be the only time in life that I am 100% totally confident in being correct, I have been at the very pointy end of getting youngster's participating and playing our wonderful game, I am more than familiar with what it requires to take kids from club, to representative, to elite level, and knowing how the conversion numbers work just to make it to representative as in the county level that Smudger suggested could happen in 15 short years from nothing is not possible.

Please tell me how that love of Rugby League by the Canadian youth is progressing in terms of participation numbers, the number of teams that have been or are in the process of being originated, the league's that will be formed and at what age levels, please give me something to ignite my enthusiasm not just the hope and a whim and a prayer that one day will eventually be day one for it to come into being, from what I have read about your previous expierence with participation and organising sports, I think you will be a tad bit worried about the Wolfpacks long term future if there is no organised infrastructure of the game played below the professional level, it needs it, and you know that.

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