Normalising Obesity

[Dave T]

49 minutes ago, Ackroman said:

No, but I do think there's a pack mentality on here that often misses the point.

Edit: One point being that my Missus is not on a diet.

Just because a handful of people disagree with the approach of insulting and fat shaming overweight people doesn't make us part of a pack.

Why don't druggies just stop taking drugs?

Why do gamblers keep gambling?

Why do alcoholics drink?

Human nature and outside factors cannot be ignored.

[Dave T]

Just now, Private Baldrick said:

I have no sympathy for people who inflict damage on their body through their own reckless actions, be that gluttony, smoking, alcoholism or drug taking. They are individual choices, no society forces those lifestyle choices on people.

On the weight thing the Katie Hopkins experiment highlights the issues.

Yes, I already said you have a lack of compassion.

Why on earth would you like seeing people insulted though? And you did, because you liked the post.

The traits you are demonstrating are far uglier than a big ass.

[Private Baldrick]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes, I already said you have a lack of compassion.

Why on earth would you like seeing people insulted though? And you did, because you liked the post.

The traits you are demonstrating are far uglier than a big ass.

I have never said I like seeing people insulted. 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

I have never said I like seeing people insulted. 

You literally liked the post with this paragraph:

Well yes I am more than happy to "fat shame" you, because it's a shame you are fat, you'd be a decent looking lass if you put down the Big Mac, wipe the sauce off your fat face and lose about five or six stone. (And for the love of God, please STOP wearing those skintight leggings)

[Private Baldrick]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You literally liked the post with this paragraph:

Well yes I am more than happy to "fat shame" you, because it's a shame you are fat, you'd be a decent looking lass if you put down the Big Mac, wipe the sauce off your fat face and lose about five or six stone. (And for the love of God, please STOP wearing those skintight leggings)

I literally did like the post, that is why I literally liked it. And literally speaking I took the post to be words of advice, not an insult.

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

I literally did like the post, that is why I literally liked it. And literally speaking I took the post to be words of advice, not an insult.

Brilliant.

Even you don't really believe that. Like Bryan, you are happy to label insults as advice. It says a lot about you tbh. 

Nobody needs to feel any sympathy or compassion for other people, that is their prerogative, but when some people feel the need to attack those people it needs calling out. 

Not having sympathy doesn't need to manifest itself as hatred.

[Private Baldrick]

17 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Brilliant.

Even you don't really believe that. Like Bryan, you are happy to label insults as advice. It says a lot about you tbh. 

Nobody needs to feel any sympathy or compassion for other people, that is their prerogative, but when some people feel the need to attack those people it needs calling out. 

Not having sympathy doesn't need to manifest itself as hatred.

I don't think you can say what I really believe!

I don't have any sympathy for overweight people. That does not mean to say that if I see one wobbling down the street I shout 'Hey fatty, lay off the pies'.

Direct abuse is not nice. Condemnation of a lifestyle choice is not being abusive, it is being critical 

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

I don't think you can say what I really believe!

I don't have any sympathy for overweight people. That does not mean to say that if I see one wobbling down the street I shout 'Hey fatty, lay off the pies'.

Direct abuse is not nice. Condemnation of a lifestyle choice is not being abusive, it is being critical 

This is a public forum, views are being presented insulting fat people, where overweight people will be reading. 

You like posts containing those insults. I'll leave you to your hating.

[Private Baldrick]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This is a public forum, views are being presented insulting fat people, where overweight people will be reading. 

You like posts containing those insults. I'll leave you to your hating.

Maybe they should spend their time reading books on how to lose weight then and not reading forums? 

[gingerjon]

32 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

I don't have any sympathy for overweight people.

Good for you.

I don't have much sympathy for tedious trolls either.

I mean, I don't shout at them in the street but I do pity their sad, little lives.

[Private Baldrick]

6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Good for you.

I don't have much sympathy for tedious trolls either.

I mean, I don't shout at them in the street but I do pity their sad, little lives.

Ah, an oldie but a goldie! Pardon me for having a contrary view in a discussion on a public forum.

[hindle xiii]

If it helps, nothing I've read here has inspired me.

[Dave T]

12 minutes ago, hindle xiii said:

If it helps, nothing I've read here has inspired me.

Really? The amount of 'advice' knocking around is brilliant!

[JohnM]

3 hours ago, Private Baldrick said:

I don't think you can say what I really believe!

I don't have any sympathy for overweight people. That does not mean to say that if I see one wobbling down the street I shout 'Hey fatty, lay off the pies'.

Direct abuse is not nice. Condemnation of a lifestyle choice is not being abusive, it is being critical 

don't have any sympathy for overweight people.

Which is ok,since

1. They don't need your sympathy

2. They don't have any for you.

[Private Baldrick]

36 minutes ago, JohnM said:

don't have any sympathy for overweight people.

Which is ok,since

1. They don't need your sympathy

2. They don't have any for you.

Then everybody's happy.

[Bob8]

I am off to the boxing gym.

I am lucky to have the self-belief that it will work, a good cardio system that makes it easier, never to have had to overcome major obesity, and to have had role models staying fit whom I could relate too. 

Lots of luck. 

Or, it could be that I am an inherently superior elite, but I am going with luck. 

[Ackroman]

22 hours ago, Dave T said:

Just because a handful of people disagree with the approach of insulting and fat shaming overweight people doesn't make us part of a pack.

Why don't druggies just stop taking drugs?

Why do gamblers keep gambling?

Why do alcoholics drink?

Human nature and outside factors cannot be ignored.

You're examples are at the extreme end of the spectrum. The fact, yes fact is obesity and the subsequent problems caused are epidemic so people need to accept they need to change.

I have just come back from seeing my Mum in Pinderfields cardio unit, floor D ward 31 by the Macmillan advice centre, if you're interested. She's 67 years old and I don't have to tell you why she was there or the advice they offered. She was very lucky, living life like she was still in her 20's while her body was getting older and far less effective.

If people can't deal with being fat shamed, wait until you're in that ward because it is infinitely more sobering  and embarrassing than someone calling you a fatty in the street.

It seems to me that human nature is not taking advice and waiting until the inevitable. The first thing my Mum said was I need to stop drinking. We'd been telling her for years and she now readily admits once she starts, she can't stop. Alcohol raises the blood pressure, she has problems with her bp and had been on medication for 20 years while being in the obese category and doing nothing about it. She now freely admits she was lazy. 

On another point, some of the comments in reverse of the admittedly frank options raised on the above by others on here are vile. This battle for the moral high ground is pathetic.

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, Ackroman said:

You're examples are at the extreme end of the spectrum. The fact, yes fact is obesity and the subsequent problems caused are epidemic so people need to accept they need to change.

I have just come back from seeing my Mum in Pinderfields cardio unit, floor D ward 31 by the Macmillan advice centre, if you're interested. She's 67 years old and I don't have to tell you why she was there or the advice they offered. She was very lucky, living life like she was still in her 20's while her body was getting older and far less effective.

If people can't deal with being fat shamed, wait until you're in that ward because it is infinitely more sobering  and embarrassing than someone calling you a fatty in the street.

It seems to me that human nature is not taking advice and waiting until the inevitable. The first thing my Mum said was I need to stop drinking. We'd been telling her for years and she now readily admits once she starts, she can't stop. Alcohol raises the blood pressure, she has problems with her bp and had been on medication for 20 years while being in the obese category and doing nothing about it. She now freely admits she was lazy. 

On another point, some of the comments in reverse of the admittedly frank options raised on the above by others on here are vile. This battle for the moral high ground is pathetic.

The examples I give are not extreme in the slightest. I'm sure we all know people that eat too much, drink too much, gamble too much, smoke, take too many drugs etc. That is human nature. People do things that aren't always good to them, and because these things are addictive they are often done to excess. Shaming anybody is not a solution, ever. Adding mental health issues to these vices is not helpful to anyone. It is a nonsense to believe that fat shaming helps anybody stop being fat.

People who do these things are not wasters who deserve contempt, usually they are Normal people going about their life with their challenges and struggles. But creating a nasty unfriendly environment for these people is an odd thing to do. I'm genuinely not sure why anybody would want to do such a thing. I don't understand why anyone would smoke but it isnt my place to shame people for their life choices (or addictions).

On your last paragraph, only I have used a nasty word here, and I wont apologise for that, happy for it to be reported if people find it offensive, but there is no scramble for a moral high ground here from people criticising fat-shaming - quite the opposite. There is only one group moralising here.

[JohnM]

Quite so. People who do these things are not wasters who deserve contempt, usually they are Normal people going about their life with their challenges and struggles. But creating a nasty unfriendly environment for these people is an odd thing to do. I'm genuinely not sure why anybody would want to do such a thing. I don't understand why anyone would smoke but it isnt my place to shame people for their life choices (or addictions).

Maybe some hard-liners should substitute for example "those who don't work hard at school and mess around instead"  for "obese people". Imagine the outcry on here if those without say decent A levels or those who did no go to Uni, or those on low pay were told it was all their fault, tough, grow some, only theirs selves to blame etc etc.

[Private Baldrick]

5 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Quite so. People who do these things are not wasters who deserve contempt, usually they are Normal people going about their life with their challenges and struggles. But creating a nasty unfriendly environment for these people is an odd thing to do. I'm genuinely not sure why anybody would want to do such a thing. I don't understand why anyone would smoke but it isnt my place to shame people for their life choices (or addictions).

Maybe some hard-liners should substitute for example "those who don't work hard at school and mess around instead"  for "obese people". Imagine the outcry on here if those without say decent A levels or those who did no go to Uni, or those on low pay were told it was all their fault, tough, grow some, only theirs selves to blame etc etc.

Being successful in life is not dependent on gaining A levels or going to university or having a low paid job instead of a well paid job.

What ever lifestyle choice you make is fine by me, just don't go bleating about it if you are not happy and putting the blame at the feet of others for your misfortune. Too many people today seek to blame others rather than take the responsibility for their own actions.

[SSoutherner]

34 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

Being successful in life is not dependent on gaining A levels or going to university or having a low paid job instead of a well paid job.

What ever lifestyle choice you make is fine by me, just don't go bleating about it if you are not happy and putting the blame at the feet of others for your misfortune. Too many people today seek to blame others rather than take the responsibility for their own actions.

How about people basejumping, riding motorcycles, downhill mountain biking, playing rugby, carrying out charity parachute jumps

All things people do by choice but which can injure them badly, do you think they should not be treated on the NHS as self inflicted ? I understand currently in the UK charity parachute jumps cost the NHS more in treatment costs than they raise for charity for instance ?

[Private Baldrick]

15 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

How about people basejumping, riding motorcycles, downhill mountain biking, playing rugby, carrying out charity parachute jumps

All things people do by choice but which can injure them badly, do you think they should not be treated on the NHS as self inflicted ? I understand currently in the UK charity parachute jumps cost the NHS more in treatment costs than they raise for charity for instance ?

If people injure themselves doing the activities you mention then it is through their own choice that they exposed themselves to those risks, not mine or society's problem. They need to take full responsibility for their choice.

As for who should pay for the injuries from their actions then that is whole different argument.

[SSoutherner]

13 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

If people injure themselves doing the activities you mention then it is through their own choice that they exposed themselves to those risks, not mine or society's problem. They need to take full responsibility for their choice.

As for who should pay for the injuries from their actions then that is whole different argument.

But you expose yourself to risk when you open your eyes every morning - what you mean is that there is a spectrum of risks and you put "eating more calories than you burn" on the unacceptable side of a personally drawn line of acceptable risk. 

I don't as like i said earlier i saw my brother balloon in weight and die of a heart attack in his early 30's as a side effect of essential drugs, but i still play and ride a motorcycle so my risk threshold is obviously skewed anyway

[JohnM]

not mine or society's problem.

Disagree.

How do you know that its not some action or lack of action on your part miles away in space or time that has led to that exposure?

The answer s that you don't therefore you indeed my be responsible  for directing that choice.  Assume here that you have no position or relationship that impinges on the choices that others make.

 

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, Private Baldrick said:

Being successful in life is not dependent on gaining A levels or going to university or having a low paid job instead of a well paid job.

What ever lifestyle choice you make is fine by me, just don't go bleating about it if you are not happy and putting the blame at the feet of others for your misfortune. Too many people today seek to blame others rather than take the responsibility for their own actions.

But this isnt about that. In fact the thread was started the other way, with a lady being positive about it. But soon enough the nasty haters were on hand to try and shame fat people.

The thread was triggered by a woman stating she shouldn't be shamed.