Should TO, Catalan and Toronto breakaway & form their own league?

[Cowardly Fan]

17 minutes ago, Damien said:

Yes he did

 

 

Fair enough but still think it's valid. Even at his ability it was still a long shot he'd be professional let alone his level. Players like Xavi started at 10. 

[Damien]

11 minutes ago, Cowardly Fan said:

He lies and exaggerates pathologically, even when it's not necessary. Some examples

- Toronto's brand doesn't stretch down the street? Odd when you look at their attendances

- No player development in N.America and never will be. There's very little player development and it's my biggest concern with TWP, but no need to exaggerate. Noone can know about the future, but New York and Ottawa have suggested they are keen to do so

- SL have blocked more than 3 foreign clubs and this kills them off. They said more than this they would have to look at extra value generated

- Toulouse and Catalans only have a couple of good French players. They have more of SL standard and conveniently ignores French players elsewhere

- My personal favourite Toulouse don't want to be in SL. No further comment necessary it's so laughably wrong

All perfectly valid. The thing is I've long since stopped replying to Parky, as have many others. This is because when you do and when you point out his inaccuracies and counter what he says with facts he just ignores it and never replies. It's just a waste of time. Then he will repeat the same tired posts ad nauseum on numerous threads. Again ignoring people's replies.

[Keith989]

8 minutes ago, Damien said:

Im just quoting what you said so if anyone is ridiculous it's you, as is comparing Football to Rugby League.

Except there was never a comparison, only a discussion around how different sports and countries produce players and how there is a very valid worry around how the Wolfpack are going to produce their own. Again stop being ridiculous. 

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, Cowardly Fan said:

Fair enough but still think it's valid. Even at his ability it was still a long shot he'd be professional let alone his level. Players like Xavi started at 10. 

Messi stared with a top flight Argentinian team at the age of 8 and was at Newell's Old Boys for 5 years until going to Barcelona. He was a precocious talent.

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Keith989 said:

Except there was never a comparison, only a discussion around how different sports and countries produce players and how there is a very valid worry around how the Wolfpack are going to produce their own. Again stop being ridiculous. 

Whatever. You'd look less of a fool just admitting you were wrong instead of arguing for the sake of it and resorting insults. Comparing Football with Rugby League is ridiculous full stop.

[Keith989]

Just now, Damien said:

Whatever. You'd look less of a fool just admitting you were wrong instead of arguing for the sake of it and resorting insults. Comparing Football with Rugby League is ridiculous full stop.

Insults??? can you please point these out???? wtf are you talking about .Again there was no comparison only a discussion.

[Cowardly Fan]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

Messi stared with a top flight Argentinian team at the age of 8 and was at Newell's Old Boys for 5 years until going to Barcelona. He was a precocious talent.

I agree with all that, yet look at the success rate of great 12 or 13 year old footballers. It's not high. Even up to the national team for under 16/17, a minority will turn pro. 

If the success rate was higher Newell's would have paid for the growth hormone themselves.  

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Cowardly Fan said:

He lies and exaggerates pathologically, even when it's not necessary. Some examples

- Toronto's brand doesn't stretch down the street? Odd when you look at their attendances

- No player development in N.America and never will be. There's very little player development and it's my biggest concern with TWP, but no need to exaggerate. Noone can know about the future, but New York and Ottawa have suggested they are keen to do so

- SL have blocked more than 3 foreign clubs and this kills them off. They said more than this they would have to look at extra value generated

- Toulouse and Catalans only have a couple of good French players. They have more of SL standard and conveniently ignores French players elsewhere

- My personal favourite Toulouse don't want to be in SL. No further comment necessary it's so laughably wrong

Toronto have done very well in getting people ( I won't say fans yet ,but they are getting there ) into Lamport , but all the ' world ' stuff is dubious 

Player development is the big one , as the current debates on this thread show , ' keen ' ? Time will tell 

Not blocked , but it is a strange thing to say , personally I'd have thought 4 was a more workable number

French development has been disappointing overall despite more numbers , it seems quality is an issue 

Not sure where he gets the Toulouse point really , other than the stadium , they seem ambitious enough to me 

[Keith989]

Just now, Cowardly Fan said:

I agree with all that, yet look at the success rate of great 12 or 13 year old footballers. It's not high. Even up to the national team for under 16/17, a minority will turn pro. 

If the success rate was higher Newell's would have paid for the growth hormone themselves.  

If a club can't lay claim to a guy who has been there since the age of 13, I don't know what to say. Anyway enough on this ridiculous argument.

[GUBRATS]

37 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

Don't be so ridiculous, I'm sure if an English/Aussie lad moved over to the Wolfpack at 13 and played for the senior team eventually, you and everyone else on here would be saying he was a produced by the wolfpack (lets say they had their own youth and academy system like Barca).

But that's the point , at 13 , where and who would be play for ?

[Keith989]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

But that's the point , at 13 , where and who would be play for ?

It was a hypothetical scenario, but yeah that was what the original argument was about before it got derailed. There is no pathway for players (yet) to become professional league players in Canada and other Canadian franchises in different sports show us they don't really care either.

[Copa]

1 hour ago, TboneFromTO said:

ideally no i dont WANT that, but I dont see any evidence to the contrary (no junior RL teams) -  with the current set up thats what will probably happen (in my opinion at least)

tell you what starbug - me and you move to toronto and start a JRL team lol

 

 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Keith989 said:

It was a hypothetical scenario, but yeah that was what the original argument was about before it got derailed. There is no pathway for players (yet) to become professional league players in Canada and other Canadian franchises in different sports show us they don't really care either.

Except Rugby Union it seems

[Copa]

[TboneFromTO]

3 minutes ago, Copa said:

Hey! Grass roots in (almost) Toronto! Yay

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Copa said:

Top Badge , good to see , need another 5 

[Keith989]

5 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Except Rugby Union it seems

Yeah, perhaps the wolfpack could tap into that but the arrows are playing at a very low level in union despite being fully professional. It would be a ginormous step up for them to convert over to league and play in the super league when the wolfpack eventually get there.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Keith989 said:

Yeah, perhaps the wolfpack could tap into that but the arrows are playing at a very low level in union despite being fully professional. It would be a ginormous step up for them to convert over to league and play in the super league when the wolfpack eventually get there.

No you've missed my point , I assume that there are amateur Union clubs in and around Toronto that run junior teams , which isn't it seems the NA or Canadian way , I can't see Union clubs helping to set up RL teams at any level 

 

[TboneFromTO]

4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

No you've missed my point , I assume that there are amateur Union clubs in and around Toronto that run junior teams , which isn't it seems the NA or Canadian way , I can't see Union clubs helping to set up RL teams at any level 

 

It has happened in the past (Oakville and I think Burlington). They league teams went defunct but they were union armature clubs who had league teams

[Keith989]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

No you've missed my point , I assume that there are amateur Union clubs in and around Toronto that run junior teams , which isn't it seems the NA or Canadian way , I can't see Union clubs helping to set up RL teams at any level 

 

I get what you were saying, I may not have worded my response in the best of ways. But yeah there is no way union clubs would help RL teams what I meant but tapping into the arrows was more along the lines of convincing players to cross codes but the standard is so low with the MLR, I'm not sure how much it would help.

[TboneFromTO]

1 minute ago, Keith989 said:

I get what you were saying, I may not have worded my response in the best of ways. But yeah there is no way union clubs would help RL teams what I meant but tapping into the arrows was more along the lines of convincing players to cross codes but the standard is so low with the MLR, I'm not sure how much it would help.

Except that there are union clubs that have had league programs in Ontario 

[Keith989]

2 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

It has happened in the past (Oakville and I think Burlington). They went defunct but they were union armature clubs who had league teams

That's more of just a keep fit during the off season type thing though I would presume? There's similar stuff like that with clubs here in Ireland and to be fair I know someone who got capped by Ireland through it.

[TboneFromTO]

1 minute ago, Keith989 said:

That's more of just a keep fit during the off season type thing though I would presume? There's similar stuff like that with clubs here in Ireland and to be fair I know someone who got capped by Ireland through it

No....the off season in Oakville is snow.  They were at the same time.  They were members of the ORL and were based out of their union clubs

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

Except that there are union clubs that have had league programs in Ontario 

Fair enough , but are there 6 of them committed enough to run juniors from 9 through to adult teams ( absolute minimum 6 , preferably 20 ) 

[Damien]

Just now, Cowardly Fan said:

I agree with all that, yet look at the success rate of great 12 or 13 year old footballers. It's not high. Even up to the national team for under 16/17, a minority will turn pro. 

If the success rate was higher Newell's would have paid for the growth hormone themselves.  

Comparisons between Football and Rugby League and most other sports are stupid for many reasons, in particular the numbers involved. There are probably hundreds of great 12 or 13 year old Footballers across the world and clubs pick these up from across the world. Many obviously won't make it simply due to the competition involved from across the world. Top football clubs essentially cherry pick the cream from all over the world.

A town like Wigan may have a one in a generation very average Premier League footballer, or even none at all. They can have dozens of Super League players and countless internationals in that time. They cherry pick the talent from largely a handful of clubs in two counties of England, with the odd exception.