Lack of respect for referees.

[Dave T]

I watched a fair few games on TV this weekend and it becoming clear that the respect for the ref is going out of the window. We are seeing time and time again that players are arguing with the ref, surrounding them, showing disgust at decisions, basically making themselves look absolute tools. 

There were many instances in the NRL games, but two stood out where there was a Parramatta sin-binning and the player was shouting at the ref, barracking him, when the Parra player should have seen red rather than yellow. The ref was far too tolerant and the Parra skipper should have been binned at least. There was an argument about past incidents in other games which was pathetic, unnecessary, and for me, it brought the game into disrepute.

There was another in the NRL where Canberra questioned a decision by bringing two captains over to the ref, the ref said he would speak to one (the one who attended the coin toss) and they kicked off and showed a complete lack of respect, being sarcastic, again bringing up past games. I would absolutely have binned him for lack of respect.

We also saw it in the Wire game, where a penalty against Wire saw the Hughes question the decision (as skipper I think), yet two other Wire players gobbed off at him too. At the very least this should have seen Wire marched a further 10. 

This is all becoming the norm, and we are setting a dangerous precedent - we often pride ourselves on the respect our players show, and tbh IMHO it is misguided - our players act like complete tools.

Rod Studd (in his usual provocative style) made the point about how the ref was barracked by Wigan fans for daring to refer something to the VR: 

 

We are setting ourselves up here not taking actions on players and fans.

[henage]

Refs need to stop talking to the players using 1st name . If they get a mouth full , give a penalty , if it continues walk them up field 10 metres its not hard . As for some of the supporters well , its embarrassing .  

[Lowdesert]

16 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I watched a fair few games on TV this weekend and it becoming clear that the respect for the ref is going out of the window. We are seeing time and time again that players are arguing with the ref, surrounding them, showing disgust at decisions, basically making themselves look absolute tools. 

There were many instances in the NRL games, but two stood out where there was a Parramatta sin-binning and the player was shouting at the ref, barracking him, when the Parra player should have seen red rather than yellow. The ref was far too tolerant and the Parra skipper should have been binned at least. There was an argument about past incidents in other games which was pathetic, unnecessary, and for me, it brought the game into disrepute.

There was another in the NRL where Canberra questioned a decision by bringing two captains over to the ref, the ref said he would speak to one (the one who attended the coin toss) and they kicked off and showed a complete lack of respect, being sarcastic, again bringing up past games. I would absolutely have binned him for lack of respect.

We also saw it in the Wire game, where a penalty against Wire saw the Hughes question the decision (as skipper I think), yet two other Wire players gobbed off at him too. At the very least this should have seen Wire marched a further 10. 

This is all becoming the norm, and we are setting a dangerous precedent - we often pride ourselves on the respect our players show, and tbh IMHO it is misguided - our players act like complete tools.

Rod Studd (in his usual provocative style) made the point about how the ref was barracked by Wigan fans for daring to refer something to the VR: 

 

We are setting ourselves up here not taking actions on players and fans.

This peaked around 2 years ago and continues to this day.  Clear to me that is being coached and where players do it, it’s not being put right.

I distinctly remember Shaun  McRae saying it was a poor percentage option which would cost you more penalties than you won.  Not so today. 

[gavin7094]

Rugby League's reputation for respecting the ref. disappeared long ago (as did feigning injury).  That's if it ever really existed. I remember lots of disputing back in the 70s.  It was quite common to see teams marched 10 yards, so they were obviously doing it then too. As were the crowd.  I saw those Wigan idiots at the time and thought they should have been ejected from the ground. Bear in mind though that a perfectly fair try for them had just been disallowed by the VR (when Leuluai was judged to have knocked on in the tackle), so you can understand, though not excuse, their anger. It cost them the match, ultimately. 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

How did I know Rod Dud’s name would be involved here. Despise that man. 

[Mr Plow]

30 minutes ago, henage said:

 As for some of the supporters well , its embarrassing .  

Name, shame and ban them

[Dave T]

Just now, Mr Plow said:

Name, shame and ban them

The problem is that they aint necessarily doing anything illegal. Sure, those fans may be angry, but many wont use foul or abusive language.

[Dave T]

14 minutes ago, gavin7094 said:

Rugby League's reputation for respecting the ref. disappeared long ago (as did feigning injury).  That's if it ever really existed. I remember lots of disputing back in the 70s.  It was quite common to see teams marched 10 yards, so they were obviously doing it then too. As were the crowd.  I saw those Wigan idiots at the time and thought they should have been ejected from the ground. Bear in mind though that a perfectly fair try for them had just been disallowed by the VR (when Leuluai was judged to have knocked on in the tackle), so you can understand, though not excuse, their anger. It cost them the match, ultimately. 

You can't condemn people for their actions and then defend it because a sports decision may or may not have been wrong. 

And the try hadn't been disallowed, the ref had simply gone to the VR, and in fact sent it up as a try. But that was enough for the rabid idiots.

[Dave T]

25 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

This peaked around 2 years ago and continues to this day.  Clear to me that is being coached and where players do it, it’s not being put right.

I distinctly remember Shaun  McRae saying it was a poor percentage option which would cost you more penalties than you won.  Not so today. 

I think they are often doing it for a breather and to stop teams getting on a roll, plus the obvious point of trying to get into the ref's head and get them to doubt themselves.

The worst thing for me is when the decisions they are questioning are simple obvious decisions. That is when it is obvious they are playing for time, and the ref should wave them away and play on.

[RayCee]

Ten minutes in the bin is a useful deterrent. Or a send off. Recall Gorden Tallis and Bill Harrigan?

[Just Browny]

I agree with the OP and agree that players from my club are as guilty as any.

The incident Rod Studd has highlighted was horrible. And in that instance Child was actually expressing his opinion that it was a try: God knows what would have happened if he had said 'no try'.

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

The Wigan fans who ran up to the hoardings to spit venom at the ref were a disgrace.  Surprised the stewards didn't eject them.  Maybe the Wigan club should look at the clear as day photos and make some effort to ban the group?

[JohnM]

3 minutes ago, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said:

The Wigan fans who ran up to the hoardings to spit venom at the ref were a disgrace.  Surprised the stewards didn't eject them.  Maybe the Wigan club should look at the clear as day photos and make some effort to ban the group?

Ban them on what grounds? Refs get the respect they earn, and that is reflected on here by the many posts over many years (including mine) supporting refs and their decisions come what may.

That does not, though, absolve them from criticism over decisions. Yes, it's a fast moving game and decisions have to be made in a split second, so naturally thy get some decisions wrong. In fact, they make hardly any mistakes,  as post match review often reveals.

Of course,  it is wholly wrong for fans of any team to spit venom or anything else at referees. However, when the match officials get something wrong after several minutes of deliberation in what seems to be a deliberate attempt to prove the on-field decision wrong, it is right, in my view, to challenge them.

The game is now over. Whatever, Warrington have progressed to the next round, and with the help of the Wiganers in their ranks, this could be their year (r not!)

 

[Chrispmartha]

21 minutes ago, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said:

The Wigan fans who ran up to the hoardings to spit venom at the ref were a disgrace.  Surprised the stewards didn't eject them.  Maybe the Wigan club should look at the clear as day photos and make some effort to ban the group?

We as fans need to stop blaming the ref for everything aswell, I don’t know what goes through some people’s minds to get so angry as to go to hurl abuse at an official like those wigan fans.

 

Refs on the whole get a lot more correct than they get wrong, yes we all get caught up in the moment but that in the video is unacceptable IMO

[Just Browny]

9 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Ban them on what grounds? Refs get the respect they earn, and that is reflected on here by the many posts over many years (including mine) supporting refs and their decisions come what may.

That does not, though, absolve them from criticism over decisions. Yes, it's a fast moving game and decisions have to be made in a split second, so naturally thy get some decisions wrong. In fact, they make hardly any mistakes,  as post match review often reveals.

Of course,  it is wholly wrong for fans of any team to spit venom or anything else at referees. However, when the match officials get something wrong after several minutes of deliberation in what seems to be a deliberate attempt to prove the on-field decision wrong, it is right, in my view, to challenge them.

The game is now over. Whatever, Warrington have progressed to the next round, and with the help of the Wiganers in their ranks, this could be their year (r not!)

 

You really are a hypocrite. And, in this case, the referee was inviting the video ref to check that the player who scored was onside from the kick. Which he did confirm in probably less than 20 seconds. Why 'it is right to challenge this' through abuse is not clear to me.

[Dave T]

17 minutes ago, JohnM said:

 

Of course,  it is wholly wrong for fans of any team to spit venom or anything else at referees. However....

 

I think this quote is worth keeping for the next time you are preaching others for having a go at the refs. 

There should be no however at all here.

[Chrispmartha]

11 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

You really are a hypocrite. And, in this case, the referee was inviting the video ref to check that the player who scored was onside from the kick. Which he did confirm in probably less than 20 seconds. Why 'it is right to challenge this' through abuse is not clear to me.

Quite, how anyone can condone abusing the ref especially as the ref was actually saying it was a try is beyond me!

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Some people are unnecessarily angry at sporting events. I don’t know whether this is fuelled by alcohol, I suspect it is to an extent, but some people absolutely lose it over what are minor things and opposition players and match officials get the brunt of it. It’s not right, it’s unsightly, foul and paints clubs and the sport in a bad light, but how do you police it? I suppose there is a case that it could be defined as “threatening behaviour” and potentially “foul language”.

It doesn’t surprise me however that Rod Studd chose this incident over many others this weekend (Skolars winning four in a row, Bradford beating Leeds, an all-Championship QF, the NRL Magic Round, Saints looking shaky in a knockout game etc) to talk about. Now, I’m not saying it should all be “positive RL”, because life isn’t all rainbows and sunshine, but to consistently see the worst in something, like Studd does, is equally as harmful as these unsavoury incidents. He’s, unfortunately, a respected journalist but seemingly only manages to see the worst in Rugby League and it’s tiresome and damaging, especially if neutrals read his comments and took them as gospel.

I’ve often suggested he should give up Rugby League. It clearly doesn’t make him happy and he paints a sport that he doesn’t seem to enjoy and if that was a restaurant, he’d stop going, so why doesn’t he do the same with RL? Unsurprisingly, he resorts to abuse and doesn’t give a constructive answer. 

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I think they are often doing it for a breather and to stop teams getting on a roll, plus the obvious point of trying to get into the ref's head and get them to doubt themselves.

The worst thing for me is when the decisions they are questioning are simple obvious decisions. That is when it is obvious they are playing for time, and the ref should wave them away and play on.

Doesn't matter what its for and Refs have no obligation to stop and explain things, that should be for after the game.  The Ref has hand signals to explain reasons, if players don't understand these they shouldn't be on the pitch.

Refs could help them selves by stopping constant verbal instructions.  These were insisted upon by coaches and completely wrong imo.  Dead easy 

I saw Studds comment regarding the fans, but you'll see this at most grounds which are very close to the pitch.  None the less, it shouldn't happen.  Ive commented previously on Shane Richardsons efforts to clean it up at Hull.  It worked.  I'm not saying it worked 100% but it did clean the abuse up from the terraces.

[EastLondonMike]

When watching the game live my initial thought was "look at those idiots". It's embarrassing to see such behaviour.

Seem to recall a game i attended a year or two back that James Childs was officiating and the speed of which the fans turned on him was ridiculous. i think within 10 mins and maybe the second penalty of the game he was copping it.

The mentality of lot of fans is to just blame the ref, and every decision against them is seen as an injustice and stored away in the memory banks for the next game. Regardless of whether it was a right or wrong decision.

I'd be ok with ref's being a lot harder on teams and any players who speak out of turn.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

There’s also nothing wrong with the Parra captain talking to the ref like he did at the weekend. He tried to influence the ref, by comparing the incident to a previous week, which was his biggest crime. He shut up when told to and spoke back once the ref had finished. 

It was hardly Josh McCrone v Warrington stuff. 

[Dave T]

Just now, Oliver Clothesoff said:

There’s also nothing wrong with the Parra captain talking to the ref like he did at the weekend. He tried to influence the ref, by comparing the incident to a previous week, which was his biggest crime. He shut up when told to and spoke back once the ref had finished. 

It was hardly Josh McCrone v Warrington stuff. 

Nah, it went on far too long, and the conversation started in a disrespectful way - he went over shouting 'nah, you can't ref' - he was telling the ref that he can't do something and was doing it in an aggressive and argumentative manner. That isn't what we should be looking for in a player/ref exchange.

[Lowdesert]

The RFL have just shown, with the current focus on the ruck, that instant decisions can be made that are also effective.  They don't need any forum for the Clubs or SL permissions.

1. Speak to the Teams on the day.  Tell them what will happen if they question or abuse the Ref.  Deliver that consistently. 

The Refs don't need any 2nd opinion to make this work.

 

 

[bobbruce]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Nah, it went on far too long, and the conversation started in a disrespectful way - he went over shouting 'nah, you can't ref' - he was telling the ref that he can't do something and was doing it in an aggressive and argumentative manner. That isn't what we should be looking for in a player/ref exchange.

Spot on a good rule of thumb is that if you are coming across as a spoilt toddler you need to change how you approach the ref. It doesn’t even help your team as I’d put money on the ref being less likely to give you 50/50 calls off the back of it. 

[bobbruce]

Can’t remember which game it was over the weekend. There was an incident were a scrum was awarded and because of descent it was changed to a penalty. Refs don’t use this enough any more and that’s why this attitude of players is creeping in.