Modern Masculinity

[Wiltshire Rhino]

Guardian journalist Iman Amrani is doing a series of videos on what masculinity is in today's society. She seems to come into it from a balanced point of view. 

New episode every two weeks

[ckn]

I was talking to the wife about this subject this morning. We were discussing the fad on social media of the new snapchat gender change filter that’s had much hilarity on our news feeds. Contrary to when I grew up, it seems to be the younger more “masculine” blokes participating, when I was younger it seemed to be that to prove your masculinity that you had to be virulently anti-everything-like-that. 

I’m very comfortable with my masculinity but it still took ages for them to get me to participate with my pic. And then I still wasn’t too sure of it  

For me, that’s a sign that we’re progressing as a culture into inclusivity and older views on masculinity, like the ones I grew up with, are going the way of 1970s overt racism and 1980s drink driving. 

[Shadow]

18 minutes ago, ckn said:

For me, that’s a sign that we’re progressing as a culture into inclusivity and older views on masculinity, like the ones I grew up with, are going the way of 1970s overt racism and 1980s drink driving. 

 

Edit

I know it's a spoof by David Mitchell 

[Griff9of13]

18 minutes ago, Shadow said:

 

Edit

I know it's a spoof by David Mitchell 

Unfortunately that attitude still prevails among some of the "older" generation. A conversation I once overheard in a pub a year or so ago went along the lines of: Old bloke one "what are you drinking? Old bloke two "let me see... oh, I'll have a pint of that, it's only 3.6% and I'm in the car so I'll be ok for four".

[Maximus Decimus]

I watched the first one and quite liked it. Touches on some important points.

I'm not a very masculine person. I enjoy some traditional masculine pursuits like rugby and boxing but I'm small, teach in a primary school and the thing I'm probably best known for is singing. I often feel uncomfortable around overly manly men and have an instinctive dislike for aggressiveness. 

That said, I think we might as a society need it. I think the desire to eradicate the less desirable aspects of it (which seems to get broader by the day) might be a) counter productive and b) not possible. 

 

[Wiltshire Rhino]

4 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I think the desire to eradicate the less desirable aspects of it (which seems to get broader by the day) might be a) counter productive and b) not possible. 

 

In one of the video comments someone wrote comparing male aggression with fire. Used either properly it can provide protection amongst other things. Used either wrongly it will destroy! 

I agree. 

[Marauder]

On 17/05/2019 at 18:40, Maximus Decimus said:

I watched the first one and quite liked it. Touches on some important points.

I'm not a very masculine person. I enjoy some traditional masculine pursuits like rugby and boxing but I'm small, teach in a primary school and the thing I'm probably best known for is singing. I often feel uncomfortable around overly manly men and have an instinctive dislike for aggressiveness. 

That said, I think we might as a society need it. I think the desire to eradicate the less desirable aspects of it (which seems to get broader by the day) might be a) counter productive and b) not possible. 

 

I'd swap the alpha male image for being able to sing.

[distantdog]

On 17/05/2019 at 18:40, Maximus Decimus said:

I watched the first one and quite liked it. Touches on some important points.

I'm not a very masculine person. I enjoy some traditional masculine pursuits like rugby and boxing but I'm small, teach in a primary school and the thing I'm probably best known for is singing. I often feel uncomfortable around overly manly men and have an instinctive dislike for aggressiveness. 

That said, I think we might as a society need it. I think the desire to eradicate the less desirable aspects of it (which seems to get broader by the day) might be a) counter productive and b) not possible. 

 

Some of the scariest peopleI know worked in Primary Schools! I don't think that your masculinity is linked to the phase of education you work in. I think I am just a normal bloke, worked 30 years in education, despise aggression and conflict in any form, but find as I get older I stand up to it more. I occasionally find myself intimidated by those I consider intellectually powerful, regardless of gender or size.

I am not sure what an overly manly man is!

[Wiltshire Rhino]

51 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I'd swap the alpha male image for being able to sing.

Just go for it!

[Steve May]

It might come as a surprise to some, but I have little interest in the current fashion for pondering what it means to be a man. 

I just get on with my life.   If people think what I do is manly or unmanly that’s up to them.   I really don’t give a .

The Dude pretty much nails it here, as he nails most things.

 

 

 

[Steve May]

And I wouldn’t give Jordan Peterson a two pence piece.   He writes pseudo-profound gibberish that has just enough vagueness to allow stupid people to project their own meaning onto it and think they’re clever because they understand it.  

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, Steve May said:

It might come as a surprise to some, but I have little interest in the current fashion for pondering what it means to be a man. 

I just get on with my life.   If people think what I do is manly or unmanly that’s up to them.   I really don’t give a .

The Dude pretty much nails it here, as he nails most things.

 

 

 

I have a profound, life-altering theory about that film.

But, anyway, that's for another day.

In terms of 'modern masculinity', I think there's an interesting discussion to be had. You can look at how International Women's Day is all (necessarily) inspiring and about how you can be whatever you want to be; and then look at International Men's Day and how it is all (necessarily) please don't kill yourself, you're not that awful.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

On 17 May 2019 at 12:18, ckn said:

I was talking to the wife about this subject this morning. We were discussing the fad on social media of the new snapchat gender change filter that’s had much hilarity on our news feeds. Contrary to when I grew up, it seems to be the younger more “masculine” blokes participating, when I was younger it seemed to be that to prove your masculinity that you had to be virulently anti-everything-like-that. 

I’m very comfortable with my masculinity but it still took ages for them to get me to participate with my pic. And then I still wasn’t too sure of it  

For me, that’s a sign that we’re progressing as a culture into inclusivity and older views on masculinity, like the ones I grew up with, are going the way of 1970s overt racism and 1980s drink driving. 

Using " my wife " instead of " the wife " would be a good starting point.

[gingerjon]

7 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Using " my wife " instead of " the wife " would be a good starting point.

Why? Does he own her?

[gingerjon]

Anyway, here are some blokes who like being beaten by women. The perverts.

It's basketball.

https://www.sbnation.com/wnba/2019/5/23/18636639/wnba-male-practice-squads

[Steve May]

22 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I have a profound, life-altering theory about that film.

But, anyway, that's for another day.

In terms of 'modern masculinity', I think there's an interesting discussion to be had. You can look at how International Women's Day is all (necessarily) inspiring and about how you can be whatever you want to be; and then look at International Men's Day and how it is all (necessarily) please don't kill yourself, you're not that awful.

Those “necessarily”s are pretty heavily loaded. 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Why? Does he own her?

" The wife " is ok if you want to sound like Les Dawson. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Using " my wife " instead of " the wife " would be a good starting point.

Has this just become a wife swapping board?

[Kayakman]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

" The wife " is ok if you want to sound like Les Dawson. 

 

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Has this just become a wife swapping board?

How do you get in on this action if you live overseas?

[Marauder]

20 hours ago, Wiltshire Rhino said:

Just go for it!

I clear the deaf school never mind the pub.

[Bedford Roughyed]

 

[Bob8]

44 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

 

I am not sure that is too surprising.

On 23/05/2019 at 17:52, Steve May said:

And I wouldn’t give Jordan Peterson a two pence piece.   He writes pseudo-profound gibberish that has just enough vagueness to allow stupid people to project their own meaning onto it and think they’re clever because they understand it.  

I am going to go very Jordan Peterson myself.

I think populist right wing politics can be associated with Yes to:

- Has the modern world lowered your(/group you identify with) social status?
- Is your home town far more international than when you were twenty-five?
- Are you skeptical of global warming?

If the modern world is attacking your status, and you think that that is a problem. If you think that things are not interconnected, you will not see why assisting another group should affect your status, i.e. that things were alright as they were, and it does not make you sexist/racist/a snob. If you are skeptical of global warming, it is probably because you do not see things being connected, i.e. why can't we banish racism, sexism, classism and it not affect me.

To go to the alt-right, you only have to add sexual fustration. It is a shame that this stigmatised, or just seen as a taunt. If you are a while, lowly qualifed or uncharismatic, or even worse not as smart as you think you are;- and all the above three...then it will feel like the world is against you. An average man like that will think he is more attractive and entitled to a good relationship than average, women will generally think he is less attractive and entitled to a good relationship than average. So, this conservative man goes into all out resentment at the modern world.

I was reading a Jungian book (not Perterson) earlier this year. I found it a mix of the profound and meaningless with unverified assertions and also utterly amazingly eye-openingly brilliant. I might have been projecting!