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John Rhino

Rather disappointing

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35 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Unless of course you are arguing that having RU played in an area counts as existing RL foundations. In which case I look forward to your arguments in favour of SL looking to areas like South Africa and Italy as obvious low hanging fruit

Of course. 

How else could RL have expanded into France, Australia and New Zealand without the existing RU player/club base? 

Who would Baskerville (who played and wrote a prominent book on rugby union) have written to with no RU players, no All Blacks? Who would have been the influential Dally Messenger figure in NSW? In France’s case, there could have been no Jean Galia, an RU international, to lead the way.

I look forward to seeing how you move the goalposts again to deny reality 😉

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38 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Isn't that the issue being highlighted though? The difficulty in expanding the game is a valid point and one worth exploring but it isn't addressed by Toulouse

Admitting Toulouse to SL may very well be the next step in growing the game in France. I hope they are. I'm massively in favour of them being in SL. 

However they arent the answer to how we expand the game. If they are once we admit them it stops because there is nobody else like them. By the criteria that Toulouse are good to admit nobody else exists to be admitted. As a plan to expand the game 'Toulouse' doesnt go very far.

Oh give it away will you?  We have a dog that regularly chases it's tail. She is daft as well.

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19 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Of course. 

How else could RL have expanded into France, Australia and New Zealand without the existing RU player/club base? 

Who would Baskerville (who played and wrote a prominent book on rugby union) have written to with no RU players, no All Blacks? Who would have been the influential Dally Messenger figure in NSW? In France’s case, there could have been no Jean Galia, an RU international, to lead the way.

I look forward to seeing how you move the goalposts again to deny reality 😉

Brilliant so we should be looking to south Africa and Italy as that is where RU is strong. I'm sure we will never see you speak about the strength of RU in north America as a reason that we shouldn't push forward with expansion there. Obviously, according to you, it's the reason we should. 

Stick pins in a map anywhere they play union and just go there. I can see you now arguing for teams in Durban and Joburg, Milan, Dublin, Edinburgh, Cardiff, let's go to Bucharest, Moscow and Exeter.

Edited by scotchy1
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25 minutes ago, Dave T said:

But nobody has said 'we should only expand where there is a base' - but if there was a list of priorities, the likes of Toulouse would be higher than another random place on the map.

What I am referring to here is targeted expansion, i.e. us choosing to invest some of the funding currently in the UK game to move into new areas and widen our net. 

The more opportunistic expansion like Toronto and Ottowa should be supported undoubtedly, particularly if it is fully funded by them, certainly for an initial period.

Except that's the clear implication of Elstones statement and previous statement and lack of anything actually addressing those issues. 

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1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

Brilliant so we should be looking to south Africa and Italy as that is where RU is strong. I'm sure we will never see you speak about the strength of RU in north America as a reason that we shouldn't push forward with expansion there. Obviously, according to you, it's the reason we should. 

Stick pins in a map anywhere they play union and just go there.

 

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Just now, Man of Kent said:

 

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It's your goal post. RL only expanded to NZ France and Australia because of the strength of RU there. RL didn't need to be played at all. Why not those other nations?

Or you can hide behind nonsense now your point has been proven idiotic.

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2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It's your goal post. RL only expanded to NZ France and Australia because of the strength of RU there. RL didn't need to be played at all. Why not those other nations?

Or you can hide behind nonsense now your point has been proven idiotic.

I’m not against expansion to Italy or South Africa (or anywhere), but SW France is my preference as it’s part of the social fabric. They play the game there, you see.

Anyway, would expansion to include, say, Saluzzo Roosters in the British system be expansion? How about Red Star Belgrade? 

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32 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Except that's the clear implication of Elstones statement and previous statement and lack of anything actually addressing those issues. 

As I have said before, Elstone isn't impressing me, so I am loathe to defend him, but this interview appeared to be specifically about the Toulouse and South of France expansion. After his initial negative slant on TWP he has been more positive. 

I don't think he is as polished as he likes to think he is, he often says pretty poor things. But I don't think talking up Toulouse needs to be seen as a slur on some of the wider expansion efforts. Let's be honest, we'll soon find out what he thinks about Ottawa.

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36 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I’m not against expansion to Italy or South Africa (or anywhere), but SW France is my preference as it’s part of the social fabric. They play the game there, you see.

Anyway, would expansion to include, say, Saluzzo Roosters in the British system be expansion? How about Red Star Belgrade? 

They didn't prior to Jean Galia buddy, no more than Durban or joburg or Milan or Edinburgh you see!

 

You are getting there, slower than expected but still progress is progress

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27 minutes ago, Dave T said:

As I have said before, Elstone isn't impressing me, so I am loathe to defend him, but this interview appeared to be specifically about the Toulouse and South of France expansion. After his initial negative slant on TWP he has been more positive. 

I don't think he is as polished as he likes to think he is, he often says pretty poor things. But I don't think talking up Toulouse needs to be seen as a slur on some of the wider expansion efforts. Let's be honest, we'll soon find out what he thinks about Ottawa.

I'd hope that's true, but as I have said earlier he has a habit of framing positive things in a negative way. This is far from the first time he has, whether unintentionally or not, come across as quite negative and unambitious for the game and there is a point at which you have to start and believe he means what he says. Though hopefully not

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45 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I'd hope that's true, but as I have said earlier he has a habit of framing positive things in a negative way. This is far from the first time he has, whether unintentionally or not, come across as quite negative and unambitious for the game and there is a point at which you have to start and believe he means what he says. Though hopefully not

I think where I have softened on his negativity is that I have realised he changes his opinion quite a lot - which of course poses other problems. 

I haven't been impressed with his mouth though tbh.

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If for some 'reason' SLE refuses Toronto to enter SL, could the RFL build up the Championship as a 'rival' comp, pushy for a more international feel (with Ottawa coming up the ranks) and challenge SLE for a Sky deal and sponsors considering that SLE is separate?

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12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think where I have softened on his negativity is that I have realised he changes his opinion quite a lot - which of course poses other problems. 

I haven't been impressed with his mouth though tbh.

I think Elstone still has too much of a soccer mentality TBH.

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Please stop saying TBH.

I'll agree to take it for granted that you are being honest all the time.

Unless of course you want me to consider you a liar, who only speaks honestly once in a while?

I prefer the first option.

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Next week a thread about Robert Elstone's plan to expand the game into Eccles!


“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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4 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

They didn't prior to Jean Galia buddy, no more than Durban or joburg or Milan or Edinburgh you see!

You are getting there, slower than expected but still progress is progress

That’s nice. 

Getting where, exactly? Fantasyland or Dreamerville? 

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19 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Next week a thread about Robert Elstone's plan to expand the game into Eccles!

The Super League Chairmen will be well impressed!!

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34 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Next week a thread about Robert Elstone's plan to expand the game into Eccles!

Will they be nicknamed the Bluebottles?

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6 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

I’m not against expansion to Italy or South Africa (or anywhere), but SW France is my preference as it’s part of the social fabric. They play the game there, you see.

Anyway, would expansion to include, say, Saluzzo Roosters in the British system be expansion? How about Red Star Belgrade? 

   Link with West Wales Raiders - https://www.raidersrugbyleague.co.uk/blog/west-wales-raiders-announce-new-partnership-with-saluzzo-roosters-rl

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1 hour ago, Gooleboy said:

The Super League Chairmen will be well impressed!!

The lack of ambition is awesome!

Today Toulouse tomorrow Cuxac-Cabardès !


“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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Said it before and I will say it again 

Elstone is

1. Stuck in t(e pockets of a lot of self interested self serving club owners

2. Was their unanimous choice simply because he will always represent their inward looking views and

3. What do you expect from a mo Lindsay clone?

he is stuck back in an era we left b hind long ago, the man has more road to Damascus moments in a week than most of us have in our lives cause he doesn’t understand how League fits into the sporting landscape in the 21st century

then he gets up off his ###### goes to Toulouse and is ‘comfortable’  with expansion int9 an area it’s already played in - read comfortable offering a new team a place at the table not expansion at all - its simply an offer to join the old boys club

toronto Ottawa and the rest must keep this man awake every night of the week in fear of losing* what little control he has as he doesn’t have any with them at all

on merit you would cosy up to Toronto not Toulouse if you want to expand exponentially into a new and unsaturated sports market that is clearly eager for our style of entertainment 

the bloke bottled it when he went to his mates at Liverpool for magic strategically we have a Newcastle team screaming out for assistance and a location where the matches worked and were attended well

instead we get a few k more for Liverpool less people now give a and the concept is very much in the doldrums if he doesn’t get it right sooner rather than later

an announcement now of where it will be next year would be very good but unlikely 

he lifts the rfl media team almost to a man and woman and has done ###### all with them

he was the main driver behind loop fixtures and continually justifies them when even my cat knows better and he just switches people off

he is not a leader he is a mouth piece he is neither creative nor forward looking and there is nothing he has done or said that isn’t negative the only feel good factor I get from him is when he shuts his mouth

he will make a partially positive statement then launch into a ‘ yes but’ speech for twice as long and finish on a ‘ and I’m sure it will be alright though’ when he has done his thing with it

that used be called the sandwich or the Nike tick

if you don’t like the sport Elstone do something about it stop being a and criticising people who are trying to do stuff that is positive ffs  even Rimmer has managed to engineer an increase in playing numbers and a gb tour which is all nothing to do with good ole Robby 

elstone is a highly paid admin clerk for a board of directors who own super league and are very miffed other people can join the party in an ad hoc fashion they don’t currently control. 

HE IS NOT IN A GAME LEADERSHIP ROLE STOP EXPECTING HIM TO HAVE ANY ANSWERS TO THE GAMES WIDER ISSUES AND DONT EXPECT HIM TO MAKE ANY POSITIVE COMMENTS ABOUT EXPANSION WHICH WOULD UNDERMINE THE CURRENT SUPER LEAGUE MEMBERSHIP THAT EMPLOYS HIM 

in years to come the rfl will have the more valuable property with teams like Ottawa and nyc in their ranks and I think Perez for one knows this given his comments about not rushing to leave L1 or the championship in a mad rush like Toronto 

the business model has already changed we are just seeing the implementation of it now and the sl will ringfence ASAP with Toulouse preferred over Toronto 

think about that a team that pays rent to a union team because the same mayors office that pays a lot of cash to the union teams has prevented the league team from doing anything to their own stadium whereas Toronto dont Even  take any cash from the pot and add immeasurable value by providing a conduit for brand expansion and awareness in a massive new market FOR FREE

Elstone is a waste of time and money and any negotiations with Toronto will also include negotiations about that numpty representing them outside the U.K. which will not happen

elstone is an inhibitor not an enabler someone needs to flick the switch and get was is supposed to be a very capable man back onside and grow the game outside sl as well to sl benefit otherwise bump him off back to soccer where he can retire to the FA board and earn cash for being its chairperson and counting votes 

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

That’s nice. 

Getting where, exactly? Fantasyland or Dreamerville? 

Ah well, I tried. But as they say, you cant teach pork

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There are many things that are expansion.

Geographical expansion

Sponsorship expansion ( numbers, variety, and financial)

Participation expansion.

Attendance expansion.

Media coverage expansion. (TV, radio, print media, social media and trade media) this could be classed as awareness expansion.

TV revenue expansion.

Some teams tick more boxes than others, but if you bring about a tick in any one of those boxes then you are involved in expansion.

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I am very critical of putting T O in the expansion box but we need to put into play, when bashing Elstone, that  the new BetFred sponsorship is a real step in the right direction.

 

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“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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