25 May: SL MW: Wigan Warriors v Warrington Wolves KO 7pm (TV)

[Rupert Prince]

Fair comments from Eagle and Mr Clothesoff.  Wigan off course are now missing Hamlin. (!)   Wigan perhaps are marking time to see if youth develops which is to be fair a good thing.  If a lot of salary comes off the Cap at end of season then some short term purchases might appear.

Under Wane and I believe other teams the second rows play wide. In Wigans case SO'L is more traditionally a13 and a ball player more out wide. As such, versatile and tough as he is Lockers is not a yardage man down the middle.  And his injury hit fitness may tell as well.  (I suggest he should concentrate on one job and not be forced to to 4 or 5! )

So the Wigan pack with 2 experienced forwards going to NRL was going to be weaker.  Thing go in phases and you need to be able to allow youth time to mature.  But all the individuals should be playing better... more composed.

[Exiled Wiganer]

We have a far better side than performances under Lam suggest. Looking at the first team squad he has available, compared with last year, we signed Hardaker and Sammutt for Tomkins, which could have worked better had Sammutt been available more often. Bullock for Sutton is a fair swap, Greenwood for Bateman is a step down and Smithies and Partington stepping up for Tomkins is no great step down. We have the best under 19s in the game. Hamlin’s ban, Sammutt’s constant unavailability and losing Manfredi have hit us hard. 

We are champions and have been repeatedly champions over the last decade, and so demonstrably we have been the best team. I don’t think Wane got the most out of the players available, and I know Lam hasn’t. When Williams leaves, we will have 2 marquee spots, there is every chance Harry Smith will step up as a commanding half back. There is a lot to look forward to, once we put this whole Lam keeping the seat warm experiment to bed. 

One thing that amazes me by the way, is the number of non Wigan fans who write so fondly about Wane now he is no longer our coach when they directed so much abuse - and some of it of the worst personal kind - in his direction when he was our coach, 

[EagleEyePie]

22 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

We have a far better side than performances under Lam suggest. Looking at the first team squad he has available, compared with last year, we signed Hardaker and Sammutt for Tomkins, which could have worked better had Sammutt been available more often. Bullock for Sutton is a fair swap, Greenwood for Bateman is a step down and Smithies and Partington stepping up for Tomkins is no great step down. We have the best under 19s in the game. Hamlin’s ban, Sammutt’s constant unavailability and losing Manfredi have hit us hard. 

We are champions and have been repeatedly champions over the last decade, and so demonstrably we have been the best team. I don’t think Wane got the most out of the players available, and I know Lam hasn’t. When Williams leaves, we will have 2 marquee spots, there is every chance Harry Smith will step up as a commanding half back. There is a lot to look forward to, once we put this whole Lam keeping the seat warm experiment to bed. 

One thing that amazes me by the way, is the number of non Wigan fans who write so fondly about Wane now he is no longer our coach when they directed so much abuse - and some of it of the worst personal kind - in his direction when he was our coach, 

Bullock for Sutton isn't a fair swap. Sutton must be one of the most underrated players Wigan have had in a long time. I know Wane's style of rugby didn't get the best out of him, but Sutton is a better player than Bullock. I like how Bullock runs the ball and he's the sort of direct running prop that we need right now and will become a quality player in the next few years, but when given the chance Sutton is a strong runner but also a good ball player. In defence there's also no comparison. Bullock is weak whereas Sutton is outstanding. 

Greenwood isn't a swap for Bateman as we had both Greenwood and Bateman at the end of last season and that's one of the reasons we ended up winning. The club just hasn't bothered replacing Bateman at all and since he was the best player in the competition last year (sorry, Barba, Roby fans etc. but he was)  Also, while I think Partington is excellent in defence his attacking game doesn't really exist and nothing like that of Joel Tomkins. He's not really good enough at the moment. Smithies though reminds me a lot of Bateman, which is reassuring. Joel was a smarter player than he was given credit for though, and another whose experience could have been useful, especially when we were relying on such a young pack earlier in the season.

[Exiled Wiganer]

13 minutes ago, EagleEyePie said:

Bullock for Sutton isn't a fair swap. Sutton must be one of the most underrated players Wigan have had in a long time. I know Wane's style of rugby didn't get the best out of him, but Sutton is a better player than Bullock. I like how Bullock runs the ball and he's the sort of direct running prop that we need right now and will become a quality player in the next few years, but when given the chance Sutton is a strong runner but also a good ball player. In defence there's also no comparison. Bullock is weak whereas Sutton is outstanding. 

Greenwood isn't a swap for Bateman as we had both Greenwood and Bateman at the end of last season and that's one of the reasons we ended up winning. The club just hasn't bothered replacing Bateman at all and since he was the best player in the competition last year (sorry, Barba, Roby fans etc. but he was)  Also, while I think Partington is excellent in defence his attacking game doesn't really exist and nothing like that of Joel Tomkins. He's not really good enough at the moment. Smithies though reminds me a lot of Bateman, which is reassuring. Joel was a smarter player than he was given credit for though, and another whose experience could have been useful, especially when we were relying on such a young pack earlier in the season.

There has not been that big a gap, it seems to me at least, between what we are getting from Bullock with what we got from Sutton. Certainly by no means sufficient to explain the overall fall off. Greenwood came early because Tomkins had to leave - and bravo to the club for acting there. He was here last year, but that was just good luck. Bateman is the biggest loss by a distance. Not just what he did, but that refusal to be defeated or to take a backward step. We will have to agree to disagree as to whether the development of Partington and Smithies leaves us better off, but I am pleased that you concede that Smithies is all class. 

There is a tendency with our supporters, not your good self, to ignore anything the club has done well, such as buying and developing Bateman, and to present everything in the worst possible light. I think the idea to have Hardaker and Sammutt in the spine to replace Tomkins was a very sound one. And indeed may flourish once Sammutt gets some games under his belt. 

I am not sure you touched on my main point, but I remain steadfast in my view that Lam could and should have got much more out of the players available to him than he has managed to do. In any case, it will soon be a moot point, as he has 3 more games at most.

[Jim Prendle]

On 25/05/2019 at 20:28, Padge said:

Even when Wire are superior to Wigan you still have an inferiority complex.  My wife does psychiatry, would you like me to ask her to book you an appointment.  

He suffers from Small Man Syndrome.

[M j M]

Following up on the injury from this game.