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Catalans plan Barca return - what are our Clubs doing?


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13 hours ago, fighting irish said:

That was my experience at the Summer Bash, no-one I spoke to (Blackpool people) knew it was going on! 

I'm not on facebook , but surely someone at the RFL should have put something on the Blackpool facebook sites about the Summer Bash.

Surely the RFL could have put an advert in the local press

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17 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

" Developing the match day experience " , easy to say on an internet MB , but if so easy , contact them and offer to assist on a commission basis , I'm sure they'll snatch your hand off 

It's not easy. It's not supposed to be easy. But every business, sports or otherwise, needs to keep evolving their product to reflect the demands and expectations of its customers. It's one of the reasons why Jamie Oliver lost 22 restaurants yesterday.

RL clubs don't deserve to be exempt from this reality just because they're RL clubs or because it's "hard to do". 

The sport can either accept this reality and do something to change things, or it can throw its hands in the air, say it's too hard to do, and try to manage the decline. 

However hard or expensive you think the first one is, it's nowhere near as hard or expensive as the second one. 

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12 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

The thing is that those additional things we do are the same things we did 10-15 years ago. And its indicative of a lot around RL we do what was successful in the past and seem amazed the world has moved on. Its a local singer and a bit of fireworks if you are lucky, maybe some face painting. It's all very village fete or working mens club

One of the big things Elstone has mentioned is the work they are doing with outside agencies on creating a sort of brand standard for pre-match. Which is absolutely needed and will add a lot imo. People have an almost pavlovian response to the champions league theme tune these days. It really sets the scene. I hope they can get that right 

Thats a very good description... I've been trying to work out what a couple of the "events" i have been to felt like and that is pretty spot on.. 

12 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Not necessarily when it opens , but 3 years down the line when the ' new stadium ' factor has subsided 

Agree that is the difficult bit but you need to create something that cannot subside. The new stadium give you the chance to get infront of people that go because it is "new" then you create something that people want to come back for. 

The one thing i always feel a little let down on with all of this is the "if it aint broke dont fix it" line which IMHO doesnt work on this type of thing. You need to be forever evolving, trying new things and that also means with staff there is a limited life span on the people who arrange the match day event too. If someone is very good and they are good at evolving themselves then great but a shake up of personnel brings in new ideas too, I get a bit worried when its "the 10th year xyz has run an event" as its probably not novel or modern anymore and is just "traditional" and samey. 

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16 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

One of the big things Elstone has mentioned is the work they are doing with outside agencies on creating a sort of brand standard for pre-match. Which is absolutely needed and will add a lot imo. People have an almost pavlovian response to the champions league theme tune these days. It really sets the scene. I hope they can get that right 

Even this is something that I think the game has messed up for no real reason. What is the purpose of the players coming out of the tunnel and standing in line for 60 seconds?

I'd actually go back to when we have the away team running out first (usually to a hostile reception), followed by the home team, and give the clubs some freedom to introduce the teams how they want. Something that gets the crowd going a bit. 

College Football in the US is great at this and the way some teams come out is almost ritualistic. Virginia Tech has a long build-up to backdrop of Enter Sandman and it looks brilliant on TV. Yes, it might be a bit too OTT for us Brits, but it looks so much better and creates a much better atmosphere than having the players standing in line for what seems like no real reason. If it's something to do with getting kids involved as player escorts, there are plenty of ways to incorporate that. 

The working men's club analogy is spot on. We're stuck in the same old ways of doing things and thinking that the best way to change that is to keep lowering prices and trying to sell more to the few people that are left.

What nobody is doing is asking why the function room is empty when the when the fancy bars in town selling expensive cocktails and drinks at twice the price are packed out every weekend.  

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1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Even this is something that I think the game has messed up for no real reason. What is the purpose of the players coming out of the tunnel and standing in line for 60 seconds?

I'd actually go back to when we have the away team running out first (usually to a hostile reception), followed by the home team, and give the clubs some freedom to introduce the teams how they want. Something that gets the crowd going a bit. 

College Football in the US is great at this and the way some teams come out is almost ritualistic. Virginia Tech has a long build-up to backdrop of Enter Sandman and it looks brilliant on TV. Yes, it might be a bit too OTT for us Brits, but it looks so much better and creates a much better atmosphere than having the players standing in line for what seems like no real reason. If it's something to do with getting kids involved as player escorts, there are plenty of ways to incorporate that. 

The working men's club analogy is spot on. We're stuck in the same old ways of doing things and thinking that the best way to change that is to keep lowering prices and trying to sell more to the few people that are left.

What nobody is doing is asking why the function room is empty when the when the fancy bars in town selling expensive cocktails and drinks at twice the price are packed out every weekend.  

What if the clubs agree to come out and stand in line for 60 secs?

which clubs are lowering prices?

Which bars are full and which bars are empty?

The working class analogy isn’t spot on at all.  Even if it was many many working class people are very well off.  Isn’t there money just the same as middle, upper class or royalty?

Imo many clubs can do more and would probably admit they need to do more but many things we do are good.  

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28 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

What if the clubs agree to come out and stand in line for 60 secs?

If they're agreeing to come out and stand in line for 60 seconds, that's their decision. But it's not unfair to point out that, to a fan, it appears to serve no real purpose and that it doesn't really help to build a sense of anticipation. 

Quote

which clubs are lowering prices?

Lots. The Magic Weekend seems to have had a permanent "50% off" offer on for starters. We have clubs are selling tickets on Groupon and voucher sites, uddersfield have extremely cheap season tickets year after year with seemingly no idea on how to convert those punters into ones that pay 'full price',, whilst blanket cheap ticket offers were a big part in the downfall of clubs like Bradford (essentially offering discounts and giving away margin to supporters who would have paid full price).

Cheap tickets hurt this sport. It portrays us as a bargain basement offering, not worth paying full price for. That's not how you sell an event.

Quote

Which bars are full and which bars are empty?

The working class analogy isn’t spot on at all.  Even if it was many many working class people are very well off.  Isn’t there money just the same as middle, upper class or royalty?

This isn't an issue of class, it's an issue of business. Look around and you'll see traditional social clubs, pubs and WMC's struggling and/or closing whilst the city centre bars selling gin cocktails at £10 a pop have people queuing up outside. That's the analogy here. 

The WMC's are on their ###### because they've not evolved into places where people want to go. They've not changed to adapt to what people want from a night out in 2019, whilst their older clientele that comes in for the bingo has this annoying habit of, well, dying. 

RL is the WMC in this analogy. We're losing punters and we're not replacing them with new ones because we either haven't worked out what we need to do to get them through the door, or we have and decided that its too much effort.

Meanwhile, other sports in this analogy are the glass-fronted wine bars where the young, good looking people are having a good time and willingly paying a lot of money to do so.

If you don't like the 'working mens club' analogy then fine - look at why Jamie Oliver lost 22 restaurants yesterday. One of the big reasons isn't because people don't want to spend £30-40 a head on a casual meal - it's because they don't want to spend £30-40 a head on some pretty mediocre Italian food. 

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36 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

What if the clubs agree to come out and stand in line for 60 secs?

which clubs are lowering prices?

Which bars are full and which bars are empty?

The working class analogy isn’t spot on at all.  Even if it was many many working class people are very well off.  Isn’t there money just the same as middle, upper class or royalty?

Imo many clubs can do more and would probably admit they need to do more but many things we do are good.  

to be fair he said "Working Mans Club" not the "working class" 

and hes spot on with the analogy IMHO nothing to do with the pound in your pocket but the working classes are not spending said pound in the working mans club anymore but in other pubs and clubs.

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11 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

It's not easy. It's not supposed to be easy. But every business, sports or otherwise, needs to keep evolving their product to reflect the demands and expectations of its customers. It's one of the reasons why Jamie Oliver lost 22 restaurants yesterday.

RL clubs don't deserve to be exempt from this reality just because they're RL clubs or because it's "hard to do". 

The sport can either accept this reality and do something to change things, or it can throw its hands in the air, say it's too hard to do, and try to manage the decline. 

However hard or expensive you think the first one is, it's nowhere near as hard or expensive as the second one. 

I fully understand the difficulties in marketing a ' business ' , I built one from nothing to turning over 3.5 million a year , I've also been involved in trying to market a professional RL club , no it isn't easy , and anybody who thinks it is , is an idiot , but again it's easy on here , go and try it for yourself 

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14 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I fully understand the difficulties in marketing a ' business ' , I built one from nothing to turning over 3.5 million a year , I've also been involved in trying to market a professional RL club , no it isn't easy , and anybody who thinks it is , is an idiot , but again it's easy on here , go and try it for yourself 

At the risk of repeating myself, it isn't easy. It's not supposed to be easy. 

But the answer to that particular challenge is not to simply give up trying to do something new. Unless of course, you're content with the way in which the sport is standing still (which means we're regressing). 

However hard or expensive you think developing our offering is, it's a fraction of the cost of not doing it. 

Or, you know, we could just try and throw more loop fixtures into the calendar and sell them to an increasingly bored and shrinking fan base.... 

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4 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

If they're agreeing to come out and stand in line for 60 seconds, that's their decision. But it's not unfair to point out that, to a fan, it appears to serve no real purpose and that it doesn't really help to build a sense of anticipation. 

Lots. The Magic Weekend seems to have had a permanent "50% off" offer on for starters. We have clubs are selling tickets on Groupon and voucher sites, uddersfield have extremely cheap season tickets year after year with seemingly no idea on how to convert those punters into ones that pay 'full price',, whilst blanket cheap ticket offers were a big part in the downfall of clubs like Bradford (essentially offering discounts and giving away margin to supporters who would have paid full price).

Cheap tickets hurt this sport. It portrays us as a bargain basement offering, not worth paying full price for. That's not how you sell an event.

This isn't an issue of class, it's an issue of business. Look around and you'll see traditional social clubs, pubs and WMC's struggling and/or closing whilst the city centre bars selling gin cocktails at £10 a pop have people queuing up outside. That's the analogy here. 

The WMC's are on their ###### because they've not evolved into places where people want to go. They've not changed to adapt to what people want from a night out in 2019, whilst their older clientele that comes in for the bingo has this annoying habit of, well, dying. 

RL is the WMC in this analogy. We're losing punters and we're not replacing them with new ones because we either haven't worked out what we need to do to get them through the door, or we have and decided that its too much effort.

Meanwhile, other sports in this analogy are the glass-fronted wine bars where the young, good looking people are having a good time and willingly paying a lot of money to do so.

If you don't like the 'working mens club' analogy then fine - look at why Jamie Oliver lost 22 restaurants yesterday. One of the big reasons isn't because people don't want to spend £30-40 a head on a casual meal - it's because they don't want to spend £30-40 a head on some pretty mediocre Italian food. 

To one fan, yourself.  If you have evidence that all fans think this way, that would be good to see, but I haven’t seen that.  In fact, it’s the 1st time I’ve ever heard it.

Changing tack with now targeting Magic other than a sweeping statement that clubs keep lowering prices.  Some do some don’t.  Very few events don’t have cut price tickets at some stage.  RU has plenty including give aways, so do high level Boxing matches.

You seem very angry that someone doesn’t share the doom for the game your portraying.  Very Parkyesque.

My OP was a genuine question in that ‘what are other clubs doing’ with efforts, innovation, enticing players/fans/sponsors.

 

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Just now, whatmichaelsays said:

At the risk of repeating myself, it isn't easy. It's not supposed to be easy. 

But the answer to that particular challenge is not to simply give up trying to do something new. Unless of course, you're content with the way in which the sport is standing still (which means we're regressing). 

However hard or expensive you think developing our offering is, it's a fraction of the cost of not doing it. 

Or, you know, we could just try and throw more loop fixtures into the calendar and sell them to an increasingly bored and shrinking fan base.... 

At the risk of repeating myself , offer to show a club how to do it , or stop repeating yourself 

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4 hours ago, RP London said:

to be fair he said "Working Mans Club" not the "working class" 

and hes spot on with the analogy IMHO nothing to do with the pound in your pocket but the working classes are not spending said pound in the working mans club anymore but in other pubs and clubs.

Fair enough, but that’s what people do, make changes as life goes on.  

I wish I had a pound for all the sweeping statements I’ve read on this forum. I wish I had another for those without facts to back it up.  I wouldn’t spend it straight away though, I’d hang on for a deal somewhere.

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2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

At the risk of repeating myself , offer to show a club how to do it , or stop repeating yourself 

I have worked with a Super League club through a previous employer. We delivered a return. I don't have anything to prove in that regard. 

If any RL club wants to work we me again, I'll happily provide my rate card. 

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Just now, whatmichaelsays said:

I have worked with a Super League club through a previous employer. We delivered a return. I don't have anything to prove in that regard. 

If any RL club wants to work we me again, I'll happily provide my rate card. 

But not enough for them to retain you 

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12 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

To one fan, yourself.  If you have evidence that all fans think this way, that would be good to see, but I haven’t seen that.  In fact, it’s the 1st time I’ve ever heard it.

Changing tack with now targeting Magic other than a sweeping statement that clubs keep lowering prices.  Some do some don’t.  Very few events don’t have cut price tickets at some stage.  RU has plenty including give aways, so do high level Boxing matches.

You seem very angry that someone doesn’t share the doom for the game your portraying.  Very Parkyesque.

My OP was a genuine question in that ‘what are other clubs doing’ with efforts, innovation, enticing players/fans/sponsors.

 

Errr... OK... You got me? I haven't polled every fan on what they think of the player entrance thing we do. Good one. I've expressed a view on what I think can be done to improve it, but it is just that. 

I don't see how I'm changing tact on the point about discounting. There are examples of the RFL, SLE and clubs doing it we seem to be in agreement. 

How many premier sporting events have the sort of discounts that we see in RL? Does RU discount Grand Final tickets? Are there 50% offers on for the Cricket World Cup? Do Premier League football clubs put tickets on Groupon? No, because they either don't need to, or they realise that it devalues the event. 

As for the doom comment, I don't think it's dom-mongering to pass comment that the sport seems to be in decline and there there is a responsibility on all stakeholders to address that

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1 minute ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Errr... OK... You got me? I haven't polled every fan on what they think of the player entrance thing we do. Good one. I've expressed a view on what I think can be done to improve it, but it is just that. 

I don't see how I'm changing tact on the point about discounting. There are examples of the RFL, SLE and clubs doing it we seem to be in agreement. 

How many premier sporting events have the sort of discounts that we see in RL? Does RU discount Grand Final tickets? Are there 50% offers on for the Cricket World Cup? Do Premier League football clubs put tickets on Groupon? No, because they either don't need to, or they realise that it devalues the event. 

As for the doom comment, I don't think it's dom-mongering to pass comment that the sport seems to be in decline and there there is a responsibility on all stakeholders to address that

Mate, some of the stuff you’ve posted I like.  Some I disagree with.  It isn’t a contest.

Ive been to RU, Cricket and Boxing headline events for nothing.  I’ve been the RL games for nothing but I don’t think we’re a strong enough sport not to discount.  For  some events maybe better people than me should decide but if you have the Silver Bullet then let’s hear it.

 

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8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I used the working mens clubs for a very specific reason. In a previous life I worked with quite a few. Almost universally when we worked with a WMC, more than any other type of business we worked with, when we suggested things to try and do that we know worked and had worked in similar situations we were met with 2 responses "they dont want that here" and "it didn't work when we tried it a few years ago"

I got tired of explaining that what "they" want isn't attracting new members, what "they" want is actually putting them off. Cheap beer in a bar that looked dated in the 1970s and a "turn" every third Friday puts new members off. The beer may be cheap but it's still miles more expensive than buying 8 cans of nice beer and staying at home and getting the lads around. 

And that results dont happen over night. You have to constantly build your market and adapt to them. Because something didn't work day 1 doesnt mean it wont work day 100 

Invariably the ones that embraced our suggestions, ones entirely different to what they were previously offering, survived. They didn't always thrive but they continued. The ones that didn't, are flats. 

This is exactly RL as it is seen now. Thinks of itself as cheap but for what it offers is expensive. Catering to an aging and declining market, offering the same as they did 15 (if not 30,40 years ago) and wondering why it isn't working

Finally, someone is seeing sense and understanding that £23 to enter an apparent “elite level” team’s stadium, that’s worse than most sixth tier football sides, for the privilege of 80 minutes Rugby and nothing more, is expensive. 

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11 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Dont get me wrong, I dont think tickets are expensive. They wailing about Leeds putting prices up by £3 to sit in the new stands is hilariously tight fisted. 

It's more than the product is often cheap. Its easy to see where the game cuts corners and compared buying 8 cans of norther monk for a tenner from  morrisons and watching it at home, paying 20-25 and then a fiver a pint to see some local part-time singer do a couple of covers its starts to look expensive

Exactly, for what you’re getting (rubbish entertainment, poor food, rubbish beer), RL is expensive or maybe, a better word would be overpriced. 

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