Creating a positive vibe.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Steve May said:

My thoughts are that this is spot on.   Absolutely spot on.

My build on it would be that it should run into the autumn to cover the international season.

Which, incidentally, I would explicitly brand as the “Rugby League International Season”  and fold everything from England v Australia to Germany v Netherlands into it.

Other sports get this rhythm of the year right.    There’s a lot of power in it as it allows you to use your communications to build a tradition.

And I think there’s great value in sticking with a single World Club Challenge match between SL and NRL champions as a kind of Charity Shield.    That gives you a January event/story as well.

 

 

Yup, agreed about the internationals, and yes I forgot about the WCC - and also the Summer Bash.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Are we on the up? Attendances are static in the NH. Toronto offer potential, but for what, overseas players? Barcelona took a lot of people from Wigan and France, but for what, so Guasch can buy more overseas players?

 On and off the pitch we are a second rate game up here, with virtually no headline stars, no influx from other sports and a constant player drain from the NRL. Unless and until we can generate enough money to be competitive with the NRL and union, we will continue on our slow downward spiral. 

I think this is OTT as per a few of your recent posts, but I don't disagree with everything, and my opening post does come from a position of frustration with the game.

I do think there is a lot to enjoy and be happy about, the game in Barcelona last week being one - but then we are talking about hoping to scrape 50k at Anfield this weekend. We also have the traditional Wembley Final which gets more bad headlines than good, and the rounds leading up to it are played on the BBC in front of really low crowds. The playoffs then deliver some of the lowest crowds of the year, and last year the RFL even made a real hash of the internationals, saved only by a good couple of performances.

This is sort of my point, if we get the key stuff right, a lot of the other things are forgiven.

In Rugby Union (loathe to make this cross code) they don't spend too much time worrying about a few thousand at Sale, because the media are talking about the big events they are staging at Twickenham, or the Olympic Stadium.

[Dave T]

44 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

We absolutely have to reach a point where the game can generate enough money to get within, say, 25% of the NRL cap. Everything else is moving the deck chairs on the Titanic. Moreover, expansion clubs must satisfy 2 criteria - they must pay for themselves at least, and they must lead to stronger international sides/more players for the country they are based in. Otherwise, all we have shown is that we can offer english and SH players more countries to play in. 

My end goal would be to re-structure the game internationally, so that we have global tournaments every 2 years - our wonderful existing World Cup and an 8 team Confederations Cup. With France being very competitive at the Samoa/PNG level. Which we could already have achieved if Guasch had spent his money on French talent. 

Domestically, as the decline in interest in the Cup, and Magic shows, everything is far from rosy. I don’t know how to get there, but I firmly believe that a 18/20 team SL, either in 2 tiers with cross group games, or else in conferences is achievable, and would transform the game here. Toulouse, Toronto and Catalans each have strong cases. Add, say, Bradford, Leigh and Widnes, all of whom produce great players and have won championships on my watch, and you have the potential for something special. When faced with Wigan Warrington 5 times a year, the prospect of gong back to Odsal is very tempting. 

I don't think we need to compare ourselves so closely to the NRL.

We have some fabulous talent in our comp, we have great rivalries, loyal vocal fans, are getting more and more games on TV - we need to get better and better, but we could always be behind the NRL, but still be great in our own right.

[Exiled Wiganer]

12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I don't think we need to compare ourselves so closely to the NRL.

We have some fabulous talent in our comp, we have great rivalries, loyal vocal fans, are getting more and more games on TV - we need to get better and better, but we could always be behind the NRL, but still be great in our own right.

We don’t need to. I think we should, and that until we are in a position in which we could, say, produce the next Ellery and keep him in SL, or sign a high profile NRL or union star, we won’t fulfil our potential. We can pull off the occasional event -Wigan made the WCC a great event, lots of people travelled to Barcelona and we managed to pack out the Good Friday game, but where is the strategy and where is the vision? Why do we do these things? What is the magic week end for? Why is it in Liverpool? What is the point of overseas teams? How can we get the best out of the biggest number of teams? How do we make the most of our international game? 

I may have missed it, but I have never seen a statement of intent or vision for our game that goes beyond platitudes. We have the best game in the world, and so ultimately someone somewhere up here will crack it, but unless and until we can retain and attract the best talent we will continue to decline. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

We absolutely should be comparing ourselves to the NRL. Not in every aspect but in most. RL here wont break out of its bubble until it can make a reasonable argument at least, that it is the best rugby competition in the world. To do that it needs to beat the NRL. 

But what does success actually look like there? 

Comparing across markets that are worlds apart is nigh on impossible. At what point with any authority can we say we have the best comp in the world? 

And if we could say that, how would that manifest itself here? Will it help us get better TV deals? Better sponsorship? More players? 

I am all for being ambitious, but there can come a point where it can be self-defeating. The challenge is to make our comp the very best it can be. Maximise its potential. If we grow our game hugely, double crowds, TV revenues, sponsorship, I couldn't care less if the NRL still has some more money.

I would be setting ambitious targets and goals - objectives that cant be measured,like 'best Rugby cokp in the world' may be nice visions, but they mean little.

Huge growth and success can be delivered without even looking at the other side of the world.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

We don’t need to. I think we should, and that until we are in a position in which we could, say, produce the next Ellery and keep him in SL, or sign a high profile NRL or union star, we won’t fulfil our potential. We can pull off the occasional event -Wigan made the WCC a great event, lots of people travelled to Barcelona and we managed to pack out the Good Friday game, but where is the strategy and where is the vision? Why do we do these things? What is the magic week end for? Why is it in Liverpool? What is the point of overseas teams? How can we get the best out of the biggest number of teams? How do we make the most of our international game? 

I may have missed it, but I have never seen a statement of intent or vision for our game that goes beyond platitudes. We have the best game in the world, and so ultimately someone somewhere up here will crack it, but unless and until we can retain and attract the best talent we will continue to decline. 

The recent cap increases are to help address player retention, and increased external investment also supports that.

Bigger events and world cups also supports that.

I am comfortable that this is becoming more of a key focus, although we can always do more, and faster.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

When we beat them regularly, when the game here is as competitive and at the same high-level it is there. Sponsors, tv deals, visibility, prestige etc etc etc will all flow from that. 

The fact of the matter is, the UK market is hugely bigger than the Australian market. If we got SL to anywhere near the NRL, financially we would massively outstrip them. 

Everything flows from the product that we sell. People aren't stupid, they know the product we sell is second rate. 

Being bigger and better than the NRL isn't the final step. Its the first one. Once we are even level or close to, the growth will be exponential. 

Meh. I disagree. The sporting markets are massively different.

And the majority of people we are selling to here, sponsors, broadcasters, fans care not one jot for the NRL. We aren't in the same market.

[redjonn]

Unless and until RL "decision makers" get their organisational hats on your whispering in the wind.  SL needs to invest in the best marketing and promotional team that it can. Playing good salaries to attract top people. 

Class them as marquee "players" and pay the same - their have the bigger impact on the sport in the long run.... yep well into 6 figures salaries... a small experienced high caliber team with a budget to bring in added support as and when...

Simple business organisational basics...

This is what I am/was expecting in the SL clubs bringing in Elstone and his "office"....

 

[Chris22]

On the subject of the Magic Weekend, I think it's a great idea but it could due with a huge rebrand. I got thinking about this when I saw a post on another thread which pointed out that we should move away from the "six games, two days" strapline.

Robert Elstone said at the outset that he wants Super League to become a youthful and confident brand. Magic Weekend doesn't scream that for me. The name sounds, to be kind, a bit tacky. I'm no marketing expert in terms of suggested a new name, but we can do better.

You could even produce a pretty cheap, simple and cheerful poster like the below, in the style of a music festival poster. It would be far easier to make a small poster like this and flood Liverpool with them, than say, put an advert on the back of a bus or on a billboard etc. We can push the matches obviously, but there's room to push more, such as what I suggest in a moment.

We need to make the event beyond rugby. Toronto make their matches into a mini-beer festival. We could do something similar in the fan zone. Invite local brewers to self their craft ales, put a pop-up gin bar outside, put street food stalls in the fanzone. Get local musicians performing on stages in the fanzone and in the stadium. They don't have to be famous. Wigan put a band on before their Good Friday game who sang inoffensive, catchy, famous songs and fans from both sides really got involved.

I'd rather see that that Jamie Jones Buchanan and Wayne Godwin on a stage with Rugby AM branding trying painfully hard and failing to be funny.

One of the best things about Magic this year is putting LDRL on in the stadium. But we can do more. Anfield is a huge draw for local kids. Why not set up football nets and get kids to play a quick five-a-side match on the Anfield pitch in between matches? This gets locals in the ground and watching our sport and offers local children a chance to fulfil a dream. And if we could get them to stay and watch a game or too, then our sport benefits too.

We can do more. Yes the Magic Weekend is a rugby event, but if we want it to grow, it needs to transcend the sport.

[Just Browny]

21 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

On the subject of the Magic Weekend, I think it's a great idea but it could due with a huge rebrand. I got thinking about this when I saw a post on another thread which pointed out that we should move away from the "six games, two days" strapline.

Robert Elstone said at the outset that he wants Super League to become a youthful and confident brand. Magic Weekend doesn't scream that for me. The name sounds, to be kind, a bit tacky. I'm no marketing expert in terms of suggested a new name, but we can do better.

You could even produce a pretty cheap, simple and cheerful poster like the below, in the style of a music festival poster. It would be far easier to make a small poster like this and flood Liverpool with them, than say, put an advert on the back of a bus or on a billboard etc. We can push the matches obviously, but there's room to push more, such as what I suggest in a moment.

We need to make the event beyond rugby. Toronto make their matches into a mini-beer festival. We could do something similar in the fan zone. Invite local brewers to self their craft ales, put a pop-up gin bar outside, put street food stalls in the fanzone. Get local musicians performing on stages in the fanzone and in the stadium. They don't have to be famous. Wigan put a band on before their Good Friday game who sang inoffensive, catchy, famous songs and fans from both sides really got involved.

I'd rather see that that Jamie Jones Buchanan and Wayne Godwin on a stage with Rugby AM branding trying painfully hard and failing to be funny.

One of the best things about Magic this year is putting LDRL on in the stadium. But we can do more. Anfield is a huge draw for local kids. Why not set up football nets and get kids to play a quick five-a-side match on the Anfield pitch in between matches? This gets locals in the ground and watching our sport and offers local children a chance to fulfil a dream. And if we could get them to stay and watch a game or too, then our sport benefits too.

We can do more. Yes the Magic Weekend is a rugby event, but if we want it to grow, it needs to transcend the sport.

Good post. That's a heck of a line-up for Vicky Park.

[DiH68]

4 hours ago, Chris22 said:

On the subject of the Magic Weekend, I think it's a great idea but it could due with a huge rebrand. I got thinking about this when I saw a post on another thread which pointed out that we should move away from the "six games, two days" strapline.

Robert Elstone said at the outset that he wants Super League to become a youthful and confident brand. Magic Weekend doesn't scream that for me. The name sounds, to be kind, a bit tacky. I'm no marketing expert in terms of suggested a new name, but we can do better.

You could even produce a pretty cheap, simple and cheerful poster like the below, in the style of a music festival poster. It would be far easier to make a small poster like this and flood Liverpool with them, than say, put an advert on the back of a bus or on a billboard etc. We can push the matches obviously, but there's room to push more, such as what I suggest in a moment.

We need to make the event beyond rugby. Toronto make their matches into a mini-beer festival. We could do something similar in the fan zone. Invite local brewers to self their craft ales, put a pop-up gin bar outside, put street food stalls in the fanzone. Get local musicians performing on stages in the fanzone and in the stadium. They don't have to be famous. Wigan put a band on before their Good Friday game who sang inoffensive, catchy, famous songs and fans from both sides really got involved.

I'd rather see that that Jamie Jones Buchanan and Wayne Godwin on a stage with Rugby AM branding trying painfully hard and failing to be funny.

One of the best things about Magic this year is putting LDRL on in the stadium. But we can do more. Anfield is a huge draw for local kids. Why not set up football nets and get kids to play a quick five-a-side match on the Anfield pitch in between matches? This gets locals in the ground and watching our sport and offers local children a chance to fulfil a dream. And if we could get them to stay and watch a game or too, then our sport benefits too.

We can do more. Yes the Magic Weekend is a rugby event, but if we want it to grow, it needs to transcend the sport.

I couldn’t agree more with this post. We have to stop being so obsessed with ‘the sport’ and start pushing ‘the event’.

What does it matter if people turn up and spend most time in the beer garden and minimal time watching the sport? 

What does it matter if people have been given free/cheap tickets and haven’t a clue what’s going on on the field, but get involved in the stuff happening off the field?

When I lived in Melbourne I’d go to the Aus Open tennis every year but watched very little tennis. Most of the time was spent in the beer garden watching the bands. But so what?

It’s about getting people there, not what they do once they’re there.

As well as a craft beer garden, have a wine tasting area with a lovely sitting area where you can sit and sample wines. And I don’t mean one or two plastic tables set up with a couple of bottles to try. Do it probably. Sell it as part of the event. Women love this kind of thing and might just go and sit there drinking wine all day and not paying any attention to the game. But it doesn’t matter. If rugby league can be associated with fun, sophisticated events then people will go - eventually they might even take an interest in the game.

[Oxford]

On 23/05/2019 at 11:23, Dave T said:

At the moment after the season launch we see a big decline in positivity.

And after your OP Dave the dominant factor in RL is its negativity.

Anything positive seems almost counter intuitive on these pages.

And yes I'm being negative about our negativity.

These three  sentences depressed me slightly and even before I wrote them I was searching for a way to bring it round. Then I read some of the posts and it seemed there was so little faith in the product.

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, Oxford said:

And after your OP Dave the dominant factor in RL is its negativity.

Anything positive seems almost counter intuitive on these pages.

And yes I'm being negative about our negativity.

These three  sentences depressed me slightly and even before I wrote them I was searching for a way to bring it round. Then I read some of the posts and it seemed there was so little faith in the product.

I don't think that is necessarily fair Oxford, this is a thread to discuss improvements and creating positive momentum. At the moment the missed opportunities give too many opportunities for criticism. If we created a positive rhythm it would help drown out the naysayers, that is the point.

I don't think there has been unnecessary negativity on the thread, maybe some pessimistic views, but good constructive debate rather than Twitter-style criticism of the sport.

[Oxford]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

If we created a positive rhythm it would help drown out the naysayers, that is the point.

I would love this to be the case Dave.

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I don't think there has been unnecessary negativity on the thread, maybe some pessimistic views, but good constructive debate rather than Twitter-style criticism of the sport.

The real problem with negativity is finding what's necessary from the wave after wave.

A comparison with Twitter lets everyone and every topic off the hook Dave.

I still say there's a lack of faith in the product to do the business.

[gingerjon]

4 hours ago, DiH68 said:

I couldn’t agree more with this post. We have to stop being so obsessed with ‘the sport’ and start pushing ‘the event’.

What does it matter if people turn up and spend most time in the beer garden and minimal time watching the sport? 

What does it matter if people have been given free/cheap tickets and haven’t a clue what’s going on on the field, but get involved in the stuff happening off the field?

When I lived in Melbourne I’d go to the Aus Open tennis every year but watched very little tennis. Most of the time was spent in the beer garden watching the bands. But so what?

It’s about getting people there, not what they do once they’re there.

As well as a craft beer garden, have a wine tasting area with a lovely sitting area where you can sit and sample wines. And I don’t mean one or two plastic tables set up with a couple of bottles to try. Do it probably. Sell it as part of the event. Women love this kind of thing and might just go and sit there drinking wine all day and not paying any attention to the game. But it doesn’t matter. If rugby league can be associated with fun, sophisticated events then people will go - eventually they might even take an interest in the game.

Linking my comment from the Women's Super League thread, this was my thinking around having the Women's Challenge Cup Final on as part of a day of rugby league including the men's final at ... and that's the problem really because Wembley is bobbins for that sort of thing but let's run with that for now. Men's and Women's Finals, 1895 Cup and the culmination of the schools festival (schools being on the field playing would fill the dead time between senior matches), surrounded by the sort of 'fan village' and family activities you get at a day's cricket.

[fighting irish]

On ‎23‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 17:42, Reverend Ram said:

The Andrews Sisters sung it but not sure who wrote it! Maybe use it as RL’s alternative to the NRL’s Simply The Best! Or is that for a new thread?!

I think it was Bing Crosby too, but it might be the wrong ''vibe'' for the new generation, lol.