Swinton considering Manchester rebrand

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Hull haven’t won the Super League.

Have you thought about moving to Newcastle and rebranding as ‘Newcastle’?

Again, thats not a fair comparison at all. Swinton don't play in Swinton. Swinton haven't played in Swinton for over 20 years and have bounced around greater Manchester all that time even going out to Leigh. Playing in Manchester would not be a huge shock apart from the name. Hull to Newcastle is two completely separate cities that are not part of the same conurbation or local authority in any way.

 

2 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

The chairman is already on public record that they are exploring a strategy of moving back to close proximity to Swinton which would be best for the club.

 

He has, in fact he was on the total RL podcast and Backchat saying just that - but as Cas and Wakefield have found getting local authority funding for a new ground can be meticulously hard work, especially when they have already built the AJ Bell recently. Whilst I think most would agree that would be best for the club, if that is not viable what is the solution?

He also has said on record that with the new broadcast deal in 2021 he expects it to be a sink or swim time for many clubs at the lower ends of the pro ranks and that he wants Swinton to be one of those that swims. By extension he spoke about how building on the 'Manchester' aspect of their brand would be a key balancing act for the club going forward - highlighting how Toronto successfully marketed their home match as being against 'Manchester-Swinton' and how this weekend Swinton are playing on the concept of two 'global cities' competing at RL.

It might not involve total rebranding of the club, but it may involve rebranding what the image of the club is. There is little to be lost imo by embracing the role of 'Manchester's club' - the question is whether that can be done as Swinton Lions or at Heywood Road. On the dark side that has certainly been what Sale have attempted whilst still retaining their traditional name - I personally hope Swinton can do the same.

[Gerrumonside ref]

20 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Again, thats not a fair comparison at all. Swinton don't play in Swinton. Swinton haven't played in Swinton for over 20 years and have bounced around greater Manchester all that time even going out to Leigh. Playing in Manchester would not be a huge shock apart from the name. Hull to Newcastle is two completely separate cities that are not part of the same conurbation or local authority in any way.

 

He has, in fact he was on the total RL podcast and Backchat saying just that - but as Cas and Wakefield have found getting local authority funding for a new ground can be meticulously hard work, especially when they have already built the AJ Bell recently. Whilst I think most would agree that would be best for the club, if that is not viable what is the solution?

He also has said on record that with the new broadcast deal in 2021 he expects it to be a sink or swim time for many clubs at the lower ends of the pro ranks and that he wants Swinton to be one of those that swims. By extension he spoke about how building on the 'Manchester' aspect of their brand would be a key balancing act for the club going forward - highlighting how Toronto successfully marketed their home match as being against 'Manchester-Swinton' and how this weekend Swinton are playing on the concept of two 'global cities' competing at RL.

It might not involve total rebranding of the club, but it may involve rebranding what the image of the club is. There is little to be lost imo by embracing the role of 'Manchester's club' - the question is whether that can be done as Swinton Lions or at Heywood Road. On the dark side that has certainly been what Sale have attempted whilst still retaining their traditional name - I personally hope Swinton can do the same.

Rebranding the club is killing it.

It would cease to be Swinton and become something else.

To some on here that seems like a good idea, but when you apply the same logic to moving and rebranding their particular club they seem less forthcoming funnily enough.

I’ve got very little interest in the views of people who literally have no skin in the game on this subject.

[Rupert Prince]

22 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Again, thats not a fair comparison at all. Swinton don't play in Swinton. Swinton haven't played in Swinton for over 20 years and have bounced around greater Manchester all that time even going out to Leigh. Playing in Manchester would not be a huge shock apart from the name. Hull to Newcastle is two completely separate cities that are not part of the same conurbation or local authority in any way.

 

He has, in fact he was on the total RL podcast and Backchat saying just that - but as Cas and Wakefield have found getting local authority funding for a new ground can be meticulously hard work, especially when they have already built the AJ Bell recently. Whilst I think most would agree that would be best for the club, if that is not viable what is the solution?

He also has said on record that with the new broadcast deal in 2021 he expects it to be a sink or swim time for many clubs at the lower ends of the pro ranks and that he wants Swinton to be one of those that swims. By extension he spoke about how building on the 'Manchester' aspect of their brand would be a key balancing act for the club going forward - highlighting how Toronto successfully marketed their home match as being against 'Manchester-Swinton' and how this weekend Swinton are playing on the concept of two 'global cities' competing at RL.

It might not involve total rebranding of the club, but it may involve rebranding what the image of the club is. There is little to be lost imo by embracing the role of 'Manchester's club' - the question is whether that can be done as Swinton Lions or at Heywood Road. On the dark side that has certainly been what Sale have attempted whilst still retaining their traditional name - I personally hope Swinton can do the same.

Given that Swinton are in Salford LA, then there seems zero possibility of them getting funding from Salford for any new ground.  Added to that (according to Wiki) Salford Reds owe £1.5 Milo. to Salford Council over the AJ Bell construction move. 

Short of them finding  yet another alleged cash strapped Council splashing out an a vanity stadium then I do not see what tbey can do.

[RP London]

9 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Rebranding the club is killing it.

It would cease to be Swinton and become something else.

To some on here that seems like a good idea, but when you apply the same logic to moving and rebranding their particular club they seem less forthcoming funnily enough.

I’ve got very little interest in the views of people who literally have no skin in the game on this subject.

yet when someone who has been through it and has a different opinion your response is "bully for you" so you dont really have any interest in that either!

[Wellsy4HullFC]

2 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Hull haven’t won the Super League.

Have you thought about moving to Newcastle and rebranding as ‘Newcastle’?

You haven't answered my question.

And I don't see how they are anywhere near like for like, you know considering Swinton is in Greater Manchester and has no homebase; and Hull is not in Newcastle, nor is it close to it or has any ties with it and currently has a homebase in the piece what its name and has been very successful. You could have said Amsterdam.

But still, answer the question. What hope of success do you have for Swinton ultimately? What's the best you think they can realistically do in today's current game?

[Gerrumonside ref]

35 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

You haven't answered my question.

And I don't see how they are anywhere near like for like, you know considering Swinton is in Greater Manchester and has no homebase; and Hull is not in Newcastle, nor is it close to it or has any ties with it and currently has a homebase in the piece what its name and has been very successful. You could have said Amsterdam.

But still, answer the question. What hope of success do you have for Swinton ultimately? What's the best you think they can realistically do in today's current game?

Would you support a Hull team that was moved and rebranded to Newcastle?

If so, fair enough.

If not, don’t expect the same of me.

[Gerrumonside ref]

55 minutes ago, RP London said:

yet when someone who has been through it and has a different opinion your response is "bully for you" so you dont really have any interest in that either!

I’m not really interested in your counsel here.

[RP London]

10 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I’m not really interested in your counsel here.

didnt think so...

[RP London]

12 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Would you support a Hull team that was moved and rebranded to Newcastle?

If so, fair enough.

If not, don’t expect the same of me.

without getting annoyed at me can we put this another way... 

if someone were to say to you, we can stay here as Swinton and still have 500 people come through the gates but that is it, it will never grow and in a year or two depending on the TV deal its dead in the water... or we could call ourselves Manchester do some branding work, attract 1,000 people in a year or two and have a chance of building towards super league... can you see the benefits that would have to the club/company and to the game as a whole?

dont challenge the premise because this is the premise that would be needed to be on the table to make it worthwhile so this is the case that would be put to you IF this ever became a reality (something it is not at the moment). BTW i'm not asking you to support the club afterwards (I didnt with Huddersfield).

[Tommygilf]

51 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Rebranding the club is killing it.

It would cease to be Swinton and become something else.

To some on here that seems like a good idea, but when you apply the same logic to moving and rebranding their particular club they seem less forthcoming funnily enough.

I’ve got very little interest in the views of people who literally have no skin in the game on this subject.

It wouldn't necessarily be rebranding or renaming.

It could, as I think it will be, a restyling of the clubs purpose. Just as Tottenham don't just serve Tottenham but a lot of north London up to Watford. They didn't change their name to North London Spurs, but their appeal was broadened to that particular group. Another example would be Hull City who draw support from all over East Yorkshire, or Leeds United who actively (rightly or wrongly) have described themselves Yorkshire's club. As I described above in Union Sale do the same for the whole north west. 

Broadening the appeal of Swinton as the Manchester Rugby League club doesn't mean the team changing names or losing its history - it means embracing a huge number of potential fans and customers who will be key to the clubs future. That doesn't mean it will be easy or even successful, but i think the writing is on the wall for a number of clubs where standing still is going backwards and come 2021 are facing oblivion if they don't change how they currently operate.

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

Given that Swinton are in Salford LA, then there seems zero possibility of them getting funding from Salford for any new ground.  Added to that (according to Wiki) Salford Reds owe £1.5 Milo. to Salford Council over the AJ Bell construction move. 

Short of them finding  yet another alleged cash strapped Council splashing out an a vanity stadium then I do not see what tbey can do.

Totally agree. The "move back to Swinton" is as likely as Wakey council paying for Trin and Cas new stadiums each.

[Gerrumonside ref]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

It wouldn't necessarily be rebranding or renaming.

It could, as I think it will be, a restyling of the clubs purpose. Just as Tottenham don't just serve Tottenham but a lot of north London up to Watford. They didn't change their name to North London Spurs, but their appeal was broadened to that particular group. Another example would be Hull City who draw support from all over East Yorkshire, or Leeds United who actively (rightly or wrongly) have described themselves Yorkshire's club. As I described above in Union Sale do the same for the whole north west. 

Broadening the appeal of Swinton as the Manchester Rugby League club doesn't mean the team changing names or losing its history - it means embracing a huge number of potential fans and customers who will be key to the clubs future. That doesn't mean it will be easy or even successful, but i think the writing is on the wall for a number of clubs where standing still is going backwards and come 2021 are facing oblivion if they don't change how they currently operate.

Renaming the club Manchester instead of Swinton would kill it for me.

I’m not sure how many different ways I need to keep explaining the same thing.

I would be through with it forever.

[Gerrumonside ref]

5 minutes ago, RP London said:

without getting annoyed at me can we put this another way... 

if someone were to say to you, we can stay here as Swinton and still have 500 people come through the gates but that is it, it will never grow and in a year or two depending on the TV deal its dead in the water... or we could call ourselves Manchester do some branding work, attract 1,000 people in a year or two and have a chance of building towards super league... can you see the benefits that would have to the club/company and to the game as a whole?

dont challenge the premise because this is the premise that would be needed to be on the table to make it worthwhile so this is the case that would be put to you IF this ever became a reality (something it is not at the moment). BTW i'm not asking you to support the club afterwards (I didnt with Huddersfield).

Only rugby league fans seem to think like this, always encouraging others to be the sacrificial lamb in some harebrained scheme to ‘expand’ the game.

[fighting irish]

C'est la vie.

[Colin James]

Gerrumonside, genuine questions, would you accept amateur status playing a low standard in roped off fields if it meant keeping the name? Do you think 600 others would think likewise and still go and watch games?

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Gerrumonside ref said:

Renaming the club Manchester instead of Swinton would kill it for me.

I’m not sure how many different ways I need to keep explaining the same thing.

I would be through with it forever.

I've literally just said its not renaming and given 4 examples in 2 sports where the name of the team only represents a fraction of the location of its supporter base. I don't know how many times I can bang my head against this brick wall with you on that point. Others may have suggested it but I'm trying to give you a way to keep the name and the history whilst also keeping that name and history in the professional ranks.

[Gerrumonside ref]

11 minutes ago, Colin James said:

Gerrumonside, genuine questions, would you accept amateur status playing a low standard in roped off fields if it meant keeping the name? Do you think 600 others would think likewise and still go and watch games?

Colin,

If Swinton changed it’s name to Manchester then I would no longer attend games, take any friends and family to attend any games or purchase any merchandise.  I would cease to support the club as it would not exist, it would be a new entity.  I cannot speak for the thoughts and actions of others.

Hope that clears things up.

Kind regards,

Gerrumonside Ref

[RP London]

19 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Only rugby league fans seem to think like this, always encouraging others to be the sacrificial lamb in some harebrained scheme to ‘expand’ the game.

do you see the benefit of it though to both the club/company and the game?

[RP London]

20 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Only rugby league fans seem to think like this, always encouraging others to be the sacrificial lamb in some harebrained scheme to ‘expand’ the game.

thats cow manure to be fair.. north america do this all the time with relocation, in the UK it happens by P&R rather than by "moving a franchise" but as interest and wealth moves so does success.... you may not see it immediately but it happens.

Rugby Union have seen it happen with the way the game has changed and Richmond, london irish & london scottish had to merge to form london irish otherwise all 3 would have gone, the flash in the pans of Bedford.. Coventry used to be a strong rugby union team as did Mosley and orrell and fylde but times/things change and they are now down the divisions and struggling to survive yet Wasps move up to Coventry to give it a go. its not just RL.. Netball handed out places in a Super League to supersede their top division (doing quite nicely). Ice Hockey did the same years ago in the formation of the Elite League (IIRC)

This is just someone who already owns a club looking at the possibility of not going bust first and letting someone else earn the money from a "manchester" club.

[RP London]

7 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Colin,

If Swinton changed it’s name to Manchester then I would no longer attend games, take any friends and family to attend any games or purchase any merchandise.  I would cease to support the club as it would not exist, it would be a new entity.  I cannot speak for the thoughts and actions of others.

Hope that clears things up.

Kind regards,

Gerrumonside Ref

you didnt answer his question though... 

if it were amateur playing on a park but called Swinton.. would you still support them?

[Gerrumonside ref]

6 minutes ago, RP London said:

thats cow manure to be fair.. north america do this all the time with relocation, in the UK it happens by P&R rather than by "moving a franchise" but as interest and wealth moves so does success.... you may not see it immediately but it happens.

Rugby Union have seen it happen with the way the game has changed and Richmond, london irish & london scottish had to merge to form london irish otherwise all 3 would have gone, the flash in the pans of Bedford.. Coventry used to be a strong rugby union team as did Mosley and orrell and fylde but times/things change and they are now down the divisions and struggling to survive yet Wasps move up to Coventry to give it a go. its not just RL.. Netball handed out places in a Super League to supersede their top division (doing quite nicely). Ice Hockey did the same years ago in the formation of the Elite League (IIRC)

This is just someone who already owns a club looking at the possibility of not going bust first and letting someone else earn the money from a "manchester" club.

Give it a rest.

[Gerrumonside ref]

14 minutes ago, RP London said:

you didnt answer his question though... 

if it were amateur playing on a park but called Swinton.. would you still support them?

You’ve been harassing me for long enough on this subject so this will be my last response to you.

Everything I have said to you still stands no matter the what ifs, buts, funny feelings about the future.

I might watch amateur rugby at Swinton, but I would never watch the rebranded entity.

[RP London]

5 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Wind your neck in.

just asking you to answer a very simple question thats being asked thats all rather than answer a question he didnt ask with the same answer you have already given.

[RP London]

8 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Give it a rest.

simply telling it as it is... it happens all the time it is not just RL

Again there was a genuine question there about whether you saw the benefits.. genuinely interested.. I get you wouldn't support Manchester but I just wonder if you see the actual benefits that may be there.

[Gerrumonside ref]

2 minutes ago, RP London said:

just asking you to answer a very simple question thats being asked thats all rather than answer a question he didnt ask with the same answer you have already given.

You’ve been harassing me all day.