Boycotting Aussie national anthem

[DiH68]

On the subject of casual racism in Australia....

I took this picture yesterday in a shopping centre in Broadbeach in the heart of the Gold Coast.... Australia’s ‘tourism capital’. Not tucked away in the back of the shop I should add.... proudly displayed at the front so it’s the first thing you see as you walk past

 

[Oxford]

7 hours ago, Poower Lad said:

Yawn . Can I go a back to the times when I could just enjoy the sport , TV adverts or a film without someone using it as a platform for their view . Just play Rugby and be happy for the opportunity .

Yawn, no you can't!

[Oxford]

2 hours ago, DiH68 said:

On the subject of casual racism in Australia....

I took this picture yesterday in a shopping centre in Broadbeach in the heart of the Gold Coast.... Australia’s ‘tourism capital’. Not tucked away in the back of the shop I should add.... proudly displayed at the front so it’s the first thing you see as you walk past

 

Welcome to Australia please set your clocks back to 1953.

[Copa]

9 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Well thank you for admitting that you don't practice what you preach.

Firstly, I never said that they couldn't complain about things that I don't approve of, I said that them complaining about stupid garbage undermines the people that try to talk about the real issues when they try to bring them up and that is a terrible thing.

So yeah so much for the listening and not " conflating it with their own issues of the day and being dismissive".

Secondly, who is acting like a victim?

It's nice that you don't feel targeted... but WTF are you talking about!

Look I think that you are a perfect representation of a huge part of the problems with political discourse in this country (and broadly speaking the west), you've collectivised people into groups based on their immutable characteristics (race, gender, etc), you've then assigned those groups values, motives, and perceived advantages and disadvantages, and formed an opinion based on those values, motives, and perceived "privileges". Basically whether you intend to or not you're viewing society as a competition between groups of people (e.g. Indigenous people, white people, men, women, etc), when not only is that incredibly divisive, I mean I literally can't think of a better way to manufacture racists, sexist, classiest, etc, but it's evidently nonsense because not all people in your perceived groups fit neatly into said groups.

Nope.

I only think ignorant people are ignorant, racist people are racist etc. I keep it at a person level.

*yawn*

 

[Copa]

7 hours ago, DiH68 said:

On the subject of casual racism in Australia....

I took this picture yesterday in a shopping centre in Broadbeach in the heart of the Gold Coast.... Australia’s ‘tourism capital’. Not tucked away in the back of the shop I should add.... proudly displayed at the front so it’s the first thing you see as you walk past

 

Not unusual..... unfortunately.

Up on the Central Coast of NSW some people still have small statues of indigenous people in their front yards to make their native plant gardens look “better”.

On the Central Coast people still fish for “ni@@er fish” too. “Just caught meself some ni@@ers” is not considered unusual conversation in many circles up there.

The Black and White Minstrel show used to be considered family entertainment on Australian TV when I was younger.

If indigenous people complain some will rant that they should really be complaining about “real issues”. “Real issues” being some arbitrary list of issues a non-indigenous person has in their head.

We were also taught, at school (!) and through the wider community, the words for “ Eenie meenie miney mo” as being:

“Eenie  meenie miney mo, catch a ni@@er by the toe, if he squeals let him go, Eenie meenie miney mo”. 

Yes, little kids used to sing that regularly. I heard it all the time as a child.

I think you’d really enjoy this famous short film about Indigenous Australians taking over a country populated by white Australians. It’s quite old now but used to be used to educate police officers.

 

[Poower Lad]

3 hours ago, Oxford said:

Yawn, no you can't!

Why?

[The Great Dane]

10 hours ago, Copa said:

Nope.

I only think ignorant people are ignorant, racist people are racist etc. I keep it at a person level.

*yawn*

 

Yet you are the one being racist by collectivising people into racial groups! 

That's the grand irony isn't it, if you actually treat everybody as individuals and dare I say it on "the content of their character" then you don't accept that the racial groups really even exist, and there for racism on a societal  level (like you've be arguing about) suddenly becomes nonsense.

But unfortunately we have to many people like you who collectivise people into groups based on immutable characteristics and thus perpetuate the very thing you claim to be fighting against...

[Poower Lad]

16 hours ago, Copa said:

I actually used to live elsewhere in the world where women would “white up” because they thought white skin was beautiful. Like the reverse of some white people who think a heavy tan is gorgeous.

Some people always want what they can’t have!

The blacking up you refer to was always done to mock black people for a laugh. It became an industry. Huge red lips, singing and dancing like a pi$$ take caricature of the people on the bottom of the economic ladder. 

I genuinely just read your comment as I noticed the film White Chicks with Damon Wayans is on tonight . Of course I am sure that this in no way is mocking white people whilst whiting up . Again just commentating on modern hypocrisy . 

[gingerjon]

The Four Yorkshiremen sketch works, incidentally, because it's four affluent, successful men, looking back on their lives before they had money. Anyone who has sat next to any 'self-made man' can recognise it. The Yorkshire thing adds to it, for some people more than others, but it isn't essential to the joke.

If any Yorkshiremen genuinely feel offended by it then the same options are open to them as are open to anyone else.

Perhaps, instead of getting hung up on identity politics, people in Yorkshire might be better served wondering why their area has such poor transport infrastructure compared to London, why the government has cut funding to essential services in the area, and why education levels are so low (again compared to other areas of the country).

[deluded pom?]

49 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The Four Yorkshiremen sketch works, incidentally, because it's four affluent, successful men, looking back on their lives before they had money. Anyone who has sat next to any 'self-made man' can recognise it. The Yorkshire thing adds to it, for some people more than others, but it isn't essential to the joke.

If any Yorkshiremen genuinely feel offended by it then the same options are open to them as are open to anyone else.

Perhaps, instead of getting hung up on identity politics, people in Yorkshire might be better served wondering why their area has such poor transport infrastructure compared to London, why the government has cut funding to essential services in the area, and why education levels are so low (again compared to other areas of the country).

I’d be disappointed as a Yorkshireman if they changed the identity of the men in the sketch.

[deluded pom?]

The Monty Python sketch is more a pop at oneupmanship rather than Yorkshireman IMO. It would have worked with any northern stereotype regardless of which county they came from.

[deluded pom?]

2 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I thought, upon my first cursory look, that it was an ad to drink milk or something...this is a degrading racially charged ad and most inappropriate....it really a sad state of affairs to be honest.

To the loony left in this country racism is a one way street. Imagine if there had been an operation white vote?

[deluded pom?]

Why am I being reminded of this?

 

[Poower Lad]

9 hours ago, Phil said:

But it doesn’t really go both ways, white people were never ripped from their homes and enslaved on an industrial scale.

White people have never had their children taken from them and sent to institutions to attempt to make them forget their tribal roots.

White people have never been the victims of attempted genocide at the hands of black people.

White people have never had to suffer decades of insulting racial stereotyping like gollywog dolls and black and white minstrel shows.

Campbell in the pic above was encouraging black people to vote so their voices could be heard, not suggesting the vote should be taken from white people

[Poower Lad]

9 hours ago, Phil said:

But it doesn’t really go both ways, white people were never ripped from their homes and enslaved on an industrial scale.

White people have never had their children taken from them and sent to institutions to attempt to make them forget their tribal roots.

White people have never been the victims of attempted genocide at the hands of black people.

White people have never had to suffer decades of insulting racial stereotyping like gollywog dolls and black and white minstrel shows.

Campbell in the pic above was encouraging black people to vote so their voices could be heard, not suggesting the vote should be taken from white people

So you would like us to live in an world founded in equality , but because of the past I am the only section of society that has to accept abuse . To be fair at least the new president of the NUS had the decency to be honest rather than cover her feelings with a load of look to the past clap trap . 

 .https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2019/04/10/new-nus-president-has-said-thatshe-wanted-oppress-white-people/amp/

[Lowdesert]

6 players refused to sing the anthem.  Tahu claiming Walker and Mitchell were dropped because of it last time out.  Tahu might now be sacked because of it.

2 indigenous players replaced Walker and Mitchell - Ferguson, one of them, doesn’t appear to be singing either.

Wont go away this.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2019/06/state-or-origin-2019-players-again-boycott-australian-national-anthem-before-perth-encounter.html

[gogledd]

Well, that strayed a long way from National Anthems!!

As a Cymro I will always sing 'Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau' as the word resonate my pride and passion for Cymru. I will sing other anthems too. I stand quietly for GSTQ to respect other people singing it but won't sing it myself.

[Oxford]

5 minutes ago, gogledd said:

Well, that strayed a long way from National Anthems!!

As a Cymro I will always sing 'Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau' as the word resonate my pride and passion for Cymru. I will sing other anthems to. I stand quietly for GSTQ to respect other people singing it but won't sing it myself.

And it's a democratic right to do so which is one of the system's strong points.

But the discussion about why for indigenous players this might be a necessity is lost and deliberately so.

 

[Gerrumonside ref]

On 05/06/2019 at 15:42, bobbruce said:

The archers theme it is then 

Dump GSTQ and bring in this^

With a section of Morris dancers.

 

 

[Copa]

2 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

6 players refused to sing the anthem.  Tahu claiming Walker and Mitchell were dropped because of it last time out.  Tahu might now be sacked because of it.

2 indigenous players replaced Walker and Mitchell - Ferguson, one of them, doesn’t appear to be singing either.

Wont go away this.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2019/06/state-or-origin-2019-players-again-boycott-australian-national-anthem-before-perth-encounter.html

The Australian national anthem is relatively new and huge numbers of Australians aren’t able to tell you the words if asked outside of a group singalong.

I’m in my 40s and I’d struggle to write down the lyrics. When I was in primary school we sang god save the Queen and when Advance Australia Fair was introduced they generally played the music and only the teachers mumbled along.

Kids today are even taught the second verse. I didn’t even know there was a second verse until I was in my 20s when I heard a rumour about it and did some research.

My point is, a change won’t upset too many people as it isn’t deeply embedded into Australian culture. It’s easy to find everyday people across the political spectrum who don’t get all fired up at the idea of making a change. It’s even been changed already to include women.

[DiH68]

Having lived the first 30-odd years of my live in England, and the last 13 in Australia,  my observation is that racism towards indigenous people in Australia is a very different beast from the kind of racism that exists in England towards blacks/Indians etc.

In England it’s much simpler - it seems to be based mainly based on skin color/ religion/‘bloody foreigners coming here taking our jobs’ kind of attitudes. 

With indigenous Australia, it seems to be less about skin color and more to do with their culture - how a lot of indigenous choose to live their lives, the remote communities, alcohol problems, domestic violence issues, being given government handouts etc.

It’s almost as though these negative attitudes towards aboriginals is ingrained within many white Australians. 

However, a lot of the problems they have are a direct result of the white ‘invasion’ all those years ago.

Plus racism towards people who were actually here first rather than people who have emigrated here is something I find quite bizarre. The whole of Australia should be really proud of their history and indigenous culture yet many seem almost embarrassed by it.

It’s such a complex issue and something that to me seems a world away from a lot of the racism that exists elsewhere 

[DiH68]

Just now, DiH68 said:

I guess partly because they feel more empowered now.

You could say the same about racism throughout history. Why didn’t someone else come along before Martin Luther King and do what he did? Who didn’t somebody else do what Rosa Parks did before she did it?

It’s not easy to make a stand when you have no power and nobody will listen to you.

i guess now just feels like the right time for them 

 

But also I’m not indigenous Australia so it’s not my place to speak for them ... I’m sure they have their reasons 

[RP London]

On 16/06/2019 at 09:02, deluded pom? said:

I’d be disappointed as a Yorkshireman if they changed the identity of the men in the sketch.

i'd be disappointed if some Lancastrian with a bee in his bonet got insulted on my behalf about it.. i love that sketch! 

[gingerjon]

Just now, RP London said:

when did it become a prerequisite of playing for your country that you sing the national anthem? I thought you had to be good at Rugby to play for the national team not sing the national anthem.. 

 

The debate here splits a bit between Israel Folau and non singing of the anthem. I would expect most people who are livid about players not singing the anthem are probably also angry that Folau was dismissed for expressing his opinion about the evils of gayness. I guess, to be completely, 100% consistent there's an argument that you have to be angry at both or fine with both.

 

[RP London]

9 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The debate here splits a bit between Israel Folau and non singing of the anthem. I would expect most people who are livid about players not singing the anthem are probably also angry that Folau was dismissed for expressing his opinion about the evils of gayness. I guess, to be completely, 100% consistent there's an argument that you have to be angry at both or fine with both.

 

Yes i agree to an extent. however, Folau had a contract that he breached by posting what he posted. You do not sign up to sing the national anthem nor do you sign anywhere to say that you will not speak out about inequality, in fact folau was sacked for encouraging inequality (amongst other things). What those speaking about the anthem are wanting is more equality and equal deference made by language which is surely something everyone should be striving for anyway.