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Lowdesert

Boycotting Aussie national anthem

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On 14/06/2019 at 20:52, RL does what Sky says said:

Racism does go both ways of course ..... (not that the other way ever makes the news that often)

This is English black soccer player Sol Campbell "whiteing up" to promote an upcoming election with the message of telling black people to prevent white people being voted in ... yet when white people "black up" they are said to be racist (ie The former Black & White Minstrel Show on tv).

sol-campbell-009.thumb.jpg.53bb6f1596cf9caab38566faef0a3a65.jpg

I thought, upon my first cursory look, that it was an ad to drink milk or something...this is a degrading racially charged ad and most inappropriate....it really a sad state of affairs to be honest.

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The Monty Python sketch is more a pop at oneupmanship rather than Yorkshireman IMO. It would have worked with any northern stereotype regardless of which county they came from.


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2 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I thought, upon my first cursory look, that it was an ad to drink milk or something...this is a degrading racially charged ad and most inappropriate....it really a sad state of affairs to be honest.

To the loony left in this country racism is a one way street. Imagine if there had been an operation white vote?

Edited by deluded pom?

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1 hour ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Copa said ...

I’m asking you, a local, to explain it to me from a local perspective. I think that’s very important for me to understand. So why is the Monty Python skit as bad as the Black and White Minstrel show? I want to know your local view.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

You keep asking me for my opinion yet you were the one who made the initial complaint about certain groups being made fun of. I then just asked you to watch the sketch and tell me if you thought there was any difference between doing so to that section of society and the ones you mentioned and why it appears that people who make such comments about discrimination only appear to do so in defence of some particular groups yet fail to give similar support to others.

You ask for a "local view" but why is that necessary ?  You made the complaint about indigenous Australians being targeted and also the shop with Golliwogs, the concept of which began in America. I would suspect you are not an American aborigine yet are giving your view of those subjects so why not on the Monty Python sketch ?

If you really want a local view then I point you to the following ....

Let me be clear ... I wasn't arguing with your views, I was just pointing out that although many social groups regularly receive support from people for being discriminated against there are also other sections of society that are equally targeted yet in those cases it appears to be ok to do so because of their perceived social standing.

--------------------------------------------------------------

In reply to ....

Again, yes I agree that what happened many years ago was wrong but that was then, so why should the people of today - the vast majority of whom are sympathetic to equality movements - be made to feel that they are responsible for those acts of generations ago ? Do you hold current-day Germans or Japanese people responsible for what happened in the World Wars ? I doubt it. So why act differently towards other groups of people for what previously occurred ?  Yes, everyone deserves equality but that means EQUALITY of today and not wanting more just to right wrongs from the past.

I’ve made justifiable complaints regarding how indigenous Australians are treated and how some view people with black skin in my community.

This seems to have annoyed you. You are now asking for my view on a Monty Python skit and its portrayal of people in your community.

As I appreciate these things can be nuanced, for me to form a view I need your clearly highly informed local insight.

You have the stage, educate us all about how the black and white minstrel show is comparable to a Monty Python skit. 

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2 minutes ago, Copa said:

I’ve made justifiable complaints regarding how indigenous Australians are treated and how some view people with black skin in my community.

This seems to have annoyed you. You are now asking for my view on a Monty Python skit and its portrayal of people in your community.

As I appreciate these things can be nuanced, for me to form a view I need your clearly highly informed local insight.

You have the stage, educate us all about how the black and white minstrel show is comparable to a Monty Python skit. 

Even if I gave an opinion at this stage then how can you understand what I may be forming my view of the situation on if you haven't bothered to look at what I am referring to ?

As I have said previously, it was you, not I, who made a complaint about how a certain group of people are portrayed and, as you haven't contradicted the statement I made about your own ethnic background, I assume you have made your judgement on how they feel about being portrayed in such ways without actually being one of those people you are defending. Therefore, if so, why can't you give a similar opinion on another group of people without actually being one of them ?

 

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9 hours ago, Phil said:

But it doesn’t really go both ways, white people were never ripped from their homes and enslaved on an industrial scale.

White people have never had their children taken from them and sent to institutions to attempt to make them forget their tribal roots.

White people have never been the victims of attempted genocide at the hands of black people.

White people have never had to suffer decades of insulting racial stereotyping like gollywog dolls and black and white minstrel shows.

Campbell in the pic above was encouraging black people to vote so their voices could be heard, not suggesting the vote should be taken from white people

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9 hours ago, Phil said:

But it doesn’t really go both ways, white people were never ripped from their homes and enslaved on an industrial scale.

White people have never had their children taken from them and sent to institutions to attempt to make them forget their tribal roots.

White people have never been the victims of attempted genocide at the hands of black people.

White people have never had to suffer decades of insulting racial stereotyping like gollywog dolls and black and white minstrel shows.

Campbell in the pic above was encouraging black people to vote so their voices could be heard, not suggesting the vote should be taken from white people

So you would like us to live in an world founded in equality , but because of the past I am the only section of society that has to accept abuse . To be fair at least the new president of the NUS had the decency to be honest rather than cover her feelings with a load of look to the past clap trap . 

 .https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2019/04/10/new-nus-president-has-said-thatshe-wanted-oppress-white-people/amp/

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6 players refused to sing the anthem.  Tahu claiming Walker and Mitchell were dropped because of it last time out.  Tahu might now be sacked because of it.

2 indigenous players replaced Walker and Mitchell - Ferguson, one of them, doesn’t appear to be singing either.

Wont go away this.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2019/06/state-or-origin-2019-players-again-boycott-australian-national-anthem-before-perth-encounter.html

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In the current climate of many wanting equality and having their own rights concerning various aspects of society those people should also remember that we also live in a democratic society where most decisions are made which represent the will of the majority.

Yes, the views of minority groups should be considered before a final decision is made but once it is then that is it. If, regarding the Australian national anthem, the words were changed to satisfy a certain minority group then suppose the majority of people who did not want the change then refuse to sing it ?

If some don't want to sing the anthem then so be it but they should stop trying to force their own views on others and also refuse to play for the team (and the money for doing so) which the anthem is being sung for.

Edited by RL does what Sky says
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On 15/06/2019 at 16:03, RL does what Sky says said:

These days however some people are on the hunt just to find the slightest thing to complain about so they can claim that they are badly treated.

Yeah me!


RL1.JPG.6a10be03c5528650e188f078de012540.JPG

 

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Well, that strayed a long way from National Anthems!!

As a Cymro I will always sing 'Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau' as the word resonate my pride and passion for Cymru. I will sing other anthems too. I stand quietly for GSTQ to respect other people singing it but won't sing it myself.

Edited by gogledd
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5 minutes ago, gogledd said:

As a Cymro I will always sing 'Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau' as the word resonate my pride and passion for Cymru. I will sing other anthems too. I stand quietly for GSTQ to respect other people singing it but won't sing it myself.

No problem gogledd ... Most people from other countries wouldn't sing the Welsh anthem !!!!!!  😉

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5 minutes ago, gogledd said:

Well, that strayed a long way from National Anthems!!

As a Cymro I will always sing 'Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau' as the word resonate my pride and passion for Cymru. I will sing other anthems to. I stand quietly for GSTQ to respect other people singing it but won't sing it myself.

And it's a democratic right to do so which is one of the system's strong points.

But the discussion about why for indigenous players this might be a necessity is lost and deliberately so.

 


RL1.JPG.6a10be03c5528650e188f078de012540.JPG

 

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2 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

6 players refused to sing the anthem.  Tahu claiming Walker and Mitchell were dropped because of it last time out.  Tahu might now be sacked because of it.

2 indigenous players replaced Walker and Mitchell - Ferguson, one of them, doesn’t appear to be singing either.

Wont go away this.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2019/06/state-or-origin-2019-players-again-boycott-australian-national-anthem-before-perth-encounter.html

The Australian national anthem is relatively new and huge numbers of Australians aren’t able to tell you the words if asked outside of a group singalong.

I’m in my 40s and I’d struggle to write down the lyrics. When I was in primary school we sang god save the Queen and when Advance Australia Fair was introduced they generally played the music and only the teachers mumbled along.

Kids today are even taught the second verse. I didn’t even know there was a second verse until I was in my 20s when I heard a rumour about it and did some research.

My point is, a change won’t upset too many people as it isn’t deeply embedded into Australian culture. It’s easy to find everyday people across the political spectrum who don’t get all fired up at the idea of making a change. It’s even been changed already to include women.

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3 minutes ago, Copa said:

When I was in primary school we sang god save the Queen

Kids today are even taught the second verse (of Advance Australia Fair). I didn’t even know there was a second verse until I was in my 20s when I heard a rumour about it and did some research

Go on then, without research, tell us the second verse of God save The Queen ?

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Just now, RL does what Sky says said:

 

Go on then, without research, tell us the second verse of God save The Queen ?

I don’t know it. I’ve forgotten the first verse of the UK national hymn also.

Kiwis may know it as GSTQ is one of their national anthems also.

In Australia the second verse of our anthem is played more frequently these days and everyone 30 or over looks at each other with a bemused grin.

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14 minutes ago, Copa said:

I don’t know it. I’ve forgotten the first verse of the UK national hymn also.

Kiwis may know it as GSTQ is one of their national anthems also.

In Australia the second verse of our anthem is played more frequently these days and everyone 30 or over looks at each other with a bemused grin.

Don't worry ... the vast majority of Brits wouldn't know the second verse too.

However, if people are so intent on having a national anthem which covers all sections of society, should Britain drop the "God" part in case it offends atheists ?  If an anthem is changed so as not to offend one particular group then other people could equally have a case, so how far do you go ?

Edited by RL does what Sky says

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4 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

However, if people are so intent on having a national anthem which covers all sections of society, should Britain drop the "God" part in case it offends atheists ? 

That’s a debate for the UK and NZ to have. NZ has god in both of its anthems.

I personally wouldn’t sing it.

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Having lived the first 30-odd years of my live in England, and the last 13 in Australia,  my observation is that racism towards indigenous people in Australia is a very different beast from the kind of racism that exists in England towards blacks/Indians etc.

In England it’s much simpler - it seems to be based mainly based on skin color/ religion/‘bloody foreigners coming here taking our jobs’ kind of attitudes. 

With indigenous Australia, it seems to be less about skin color and more to do with their culture - how a lot of indigenous choose to live their lives, the remote communities, alcohol problems, domestic violence issues, being given government handouts etc.

It’s almost as though these negative attitudes towards aboriginals is ingrained within many white Australians. 

However, a lot of the problems they have are a direct result of the white ‘invasion’ all those years ago.

Plus racism towards people who were actually here first rather than people who have emigrated here is something I find quite bizarre. The whole of Australia should be really proud of their history and indigenous culture yet many seem almost embarrassed by it.

It’s such a complex issue and something that to me seems a world away from a lot of the racism that exists elsewhere 

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1 hour ago, DiH68 said:

Having lived the first 30-odd years of my live in England, and the last 13 in Australia,  my observation is that racism towards indigenous people in Australia is a very different beast from the kind of racism that exists in England towards blacks/Indians etc.

In England it’s much simpler - it seems to be based mainly based on skin color/ religion/‘bloody foreigners coming here taking our jobs’ kind of attitudes. 

With indigenous Australia, it seems to be less about skin color and more to do with their culture - how a lot of indigenous choose to live their lives, the remote communities, alcohol problems, domestic violence issues, being given government handouts etc.

It’s almost as though these negative attitudes towards aboriginals is ingrained within many white Australians. 

However, a lot of the problems they have are a direct result of the white ‘invasion’ all those years ago.

Plus racism towards people who were actually here first rather than people who have emigrated here is something I find quite bizarre. The whole of Australia should be really proud of their history and indigenous culture yet many seem almost embarrassed by it.

It’s such a complex issue and something that to me seems a world away from a lot of the racism that exists elsewhere 

So, if the current-day indigenous people of Australia therefore feel that Advance Australia Fair is somehow being racist against them and not reflecting their culture, why did their ancestors never make similar arguments - or, if they did it was never brought into the public domain - about singing God Save The Queen, which was in honour of the leader of those they say invaded their territory ?

Even so, it has also taken all this time since the current Australian anthem was initiated in 1984 - and before some of these players were even born - to make these protests against it so why didn't these players' parents, grandparents, etc do the same when it was first changed from God Save The Queen ?

 

Edited by RL does what Sky says

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25 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

So, if the current-day indigenous people of Australia therefore feel that Advance Australia Fair is somehow being racist against them and not reflecting their culture, why did their ancestors never make similar arguments - or, if they did it was never brought into the public domain - about singing God Save The Queen, which was in honour of the leader of those they say invaded their territory ?

Even so, it has also taken all this time since the current Australian anthem was initiated in 1984 - and before some of these players were even born - to make these protests against it so why didn't these players' parents, grandparents, etc do the same when it was first changed from God Save The Queen ?

 

I guess partly because they feel more empowered now.

You could say the same about racism throughout history. Why didn’t someone else come along before Martin Luther King and do what he did? Who didn’t somebody else do what Rosa Parks did before she did it?

It’s not easy to make a stand when you have no power and nobody will listen to you.

i guess now just feels like the right time for them 

 

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Just now, DiH68 said:

I guess partly because they feel more empowered now.

You could say the same about racism throughout history. Why didn’t someone else come along before Martin Luther King and do what he did? Who didn’t somebody else do what Rosa Parks did before she did it?

It’s not easy to make a stand when you have no power and nobody will listen to you.

i guess now just feels like the right time for them 

 

But also I’m not indigenous Australia so it’s not my place to speak for them ... I’m sure they have their reasons 

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