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Is this the start of youth Grassroots in Canada


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20 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Gubrats said it and I'm inclined to believe him..  I think adding a couple of teams is not a problem at all.

I agree with Gubrats, I could even say we could go to 16 clubs and top him. That would not be a problem in terms of finding the 16, the problem is watering down the playing rosters, thus reducing the quality and intensity of the league which would threaten the SKY contract. I don't see a hard headed reason to do this especially with phoney clubs who won't add anything to the game here. It would be good if we could get Widnes or Bradford back, add Toulouse for the French derby and talk to the rich owner at Newcastle and see if he's up for taking Superleague there.  Even talk to Argyle and see if he wants Superleague with London Skolars. There are at least five clubs who could make Superleague a bigger and better place if only we had the players. One can dream......

18 hours ago, Moove said:

you outright lied in your post. I do have a problem when you make things up.

Well excuse me!!  I'm not the one making up "Los Angeles and Vancouver", I'm not making up baloney about "grid iron conversions" or all we need is "six NA clubs in SL and NATV will give us $$Billions" or "TWP are partnering with CRU to develop RL players". One of my favourites was when Perez/Argyle said they were "going to look at China" for athletes who may convert to RL and hey - what about the old chestnut of "making up the crowds" at Lamport? You couldn't make it up but your two heros do it big time?

17 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

That players from the places of Leigh and East Hull may be developed by other clubs isnt really relevant 

Player development is in the schools in these places, in the community where people are steeped in RL and want to get involved with the kids and the amateur game there, in the championship sides that people and their kids go watch, and who do their bit to promote the game etc etc. To pretend that players are not attracted to the game and developed to play the game in East Hull and Leigh or wherever the town has a championship club is total rubbish/a contrivance. It's not until they are teenagers standing out for their amateur clubs, that they THEN begin a journey to Superleague. In order to carry on your long unbending contrived arguments each with the cherry on top of a "long word you read in the dictionary" you have to go to some extraordinary bending of the truth to get there. 

11 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Well I hope you're not going to sign them from Hunslet Parkside?

I've checked your potted CV and you claim to be a big player in Welsh Amateur Rugby League. If that is so why do you react to my post in such a childish fashion fishing for "Like this" smileys from the dreamers? Aren't you actually interested in a debate?

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''I've checked your potted CV and you claim to be a big player in Welsh Amateur Rugby League. If that is so why do you react to my post in such a childish fashion fishing for "Like this" smileys from the dreamers? Aren't you actually interested in a debate?'' (The Parksider)

I don't have time to make a full response to your last two messages to me, but I do want to say a few things. I'm not a big player in Welsh Rugby League, my active involvement was some time ago. The motivation (my love of the game) that got me involved in the first place still remains.

I am very interested in serious debate about the game, which is why I addressed you directly in my last post to you. I also have a sense of humour and often engage in a bit of banter. Please don't be offended by anything I say, I'm certainly not trying to be offensive to you. If I have caused offence then please accept my apologies. I will choose my words more carefully in future.

I am much too long in the tooth to go fishing for smileys and to answer a point you made in your last post (about me) my opinions of you, are not based on what others say about you but on your own comments.

I'm sure, if we knew each other personally, we could be friends, so with that said, if you will listen to some well-intentioned feedback, you do tend to react aggressively to people, whose opinions differ from your own and your comments sometimes come across as personal insults. I have not gone back and researched the content of the forum before the date I joined, perhaps you have been the victim of a significant amount of abuse? That's not me.

Maybe we could begin again and agree to leave out insulting remarks and just stick to the points of debate? I'd like that.

 

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4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

I agree with Gubrats, I could even say we could go to 16 clubs and top him. That would not be a problem in terms of finding the 16, the problem is watering down the playing rosters, thus reducing the quality and intensity of the league which would threaten the SKY contract. I don't see a hard headed reason to do this especially with phoney clubs who won't add anything to the game here.

 

The exact same argument was used every time that the NHL expanded...exactly the same argument.  That argument has been exposed as a fallacy and the 'watering down' never actually became an issue. I note your point but it has proven to be incorrect in sport...please cite an example where this has actually happened?

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On 11/06/2019 at 12:24, dkw said:

Oof, where do we begin with that. No doubt this thread will now follow a well trodden path of Parky posting miserable and baseless nonsense, others will pick him up on it and call him out, he will then respond saying no one is answering his questions, we will get told of for picking on poor little parky, thread will be locked....

 

4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

 

I've checked your potted CV and you claim to be a big player in Welsh Amateur Rugby League. If that is so why do you react to my post in such a childish fashion fishing for "Like this" smileys from the dreamers? Aren't you actually interested in a debate?

And here we are..... not long now.

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5 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Well excuse me!!  I'm not the one making up "Los Angeles and Vancouver", I'm not making up baloney about "grid iron conversions" or all we need is "six NA clubs in SL and NATV will give us $$Billions" or "TWP are partnering with CRU to develop RL players". One of my favourites was when Perez/Argyle said they were "going to look at China" for athletes who may convert to RL and hey - what about the old chestnut of "making up the crowds" at Lamport? You couldn't make it up but your two heros do it big time

I didn't say you lied about any of that, but thanks all the same. Not sure how you've come to the conclusion that Perez/Argyle are my heroes either, as I've told you once already I haven't even given my opinion on this particular topic

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16 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I am very interested in serious debate about the game, which is why I addressed you directly in my last post to you. I also have a sense of humour and often engage in a bit of banter. Please don't be offended by anything I say, I'm certainly not trying to be offensive to you. If I have caused offence then please accept my apologies. I will choose my words more carefully in future.

I have not gone back and researched the content of the forum before the date I joined, perhaps you have been the victim of a significant amount of abuse?

Absolutely!!  I didn't fall for the Perez garbage. He's a smart salesman who tells people what they want to hear, so when I pointed this out, people didn't like it so they pretty much threw abuse at me daily on here, and as you can see above people like "DKW" chase after me from the anonymity of their bedroom keyboards. He's probably a decent guy in "real life".

I say that because this whole North American thing is a fantasy, it's not real. You yourself talk about a difference of "opinion", but do you not realise that there are some actual facts here which over ride "opinion". Perez tried to revive grassroots RL in Canada in 2010. He had six years at it and failed in the face of union dominance . He then met Argyle an Aussie Billionaire who fancied his own club and they decided to pitch an idea that Canada would fall in love with RL if only these boys were allowed to run a Canadian club in our leagues here which rich Canadians would want to copy and TV companies there would lap up the resultant Transatlantic league and throw TV contracts at us. Not true.

From the start the requirement was not for Perez to just buy a squad of players from here but develop his own hence the "Grid iron player" conversion plan (go on you Tube and look up backchat special "Dave Woods meets Eric Perez" where he floats this idea). That failed miserably. He didn't convert a single one. As it stands today Perez is nearly ten years on trying to get Canada to play RL but nobody there wants to know, and as for "Rich Canadians" or big contracts from American TV companies there wanting to invest, there aren't any. The phoney TWP club PAY the TV companies to be on TV. The whole thing is factually a complete failure. If you disagree on the basis "I would say that wouldn't I" then consider the Superleague Chairman's view that the TWP expansion plan is nothing more than "dressing up squads of players from here in American jerseys" .

The bottom line is too many people on here invested too much personal hope and belief that this was the breakthrough our game craved, fair enough..... But it isn't hence the shoot the messenger stuff!

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14 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Absolutely!!  I didn't fall for the Perez garbage. He's a smart salesman who tells people what they want to hear, so when I pointed this out, people didn't like it so they pretty much threw abuse at me daily on here, and as you can see above people like "DKW" chase after me from the anonymity of their bedroom keyboards. He's probably a decent guy in "real life".

I say that because this whole North American thing is a fantasy, it's not real. You yourself talk about a difference of "opinion", but do you not realise that there are some actual facts here which over ride "opinion". Perez tried to revive grassroots RL in Canada in 2010. He had six years at it and failed in the face of union dominance . He then met Argyle an Aussie Billionaire who fancied his own club and they decided to pitch an idea that Canada would fall in love with RL if only these boys were allowed to run a Canadian club in our leagues here which rich Canadians would want to copy and TV companies there would lap up the resultant Transatlantic league and throw TV contracts at us. Not true.

From the start the requirement was not for Perez to just buy a squad of players from here but develop his own hence the "Grid iron player" conversion plan (go on you Tube and look up backchat special "Dave Woods meets Eric Perez" where he floats this idea). That failed miserably. He didn't convert a single one. As it stands today Perez is nearly ten years on trying to get Canada to play RL but nobody there wants to know, and as for "Rich Canadians" or big contracts from American TV companies there wanting to invest, there aren't any. The phoney TWP club PAY the TV companies to be on TV. The whole thing is factually a complete failure. If you disagree on the basis "I would say that wouldn't I" then consider the Superleague Chairman's view that the TWP expansion plan is nothing more than "dressing up squads of players from here in American jerseys" .

And somehow I should be driven off this forum for failing to join in with the American dream......

The problem is you refuse to acknowledge and ignore the positive comments regarding twp that are made also by people in power. Elstone being one of them. 

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27 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Absolutely!!  I didn't fall for the Perez garbage. He's a smart salesman who tells people what they want to hear, so when I pointed this out, people didn't like it so they pretty much threw abuse at me daily on here, and as you can see above people like "DKW" chase after me from the anonymity of their bedroom keyboards. He's probably a decent guy in "real life".

I say that because this whole North American thing is a fantasy, it's not real. You yourself talk about a difference of "opinion", but do you not realise that there are some actual facts here which over ride "opinion". Perez tried to revive grassroots RL in Canada in 2010. He had six years at it and failed in the face of union dominance . He then met Argyle an Aussie Billionaire who fancied his own club and they decided to pitch an idea that Canada would fall in love with RL if only these boys were allowed to run a Canadian club in our leagues here which rich Canadians would want to copy and TV companies there would lap up the resultant Transatlantic league and throw TV contracts at us. Not true.

From the start the requirement was not for Perez to just buy a squad of players from here but develop his own hence the "Grid iron player" conversion plan (go on you Tube and look up backchat special "Dave Woods meets Eric Perez" where he floats this idea). That failed miserably. He didn't convert a single one. As it stands today Perez is nearly ten years on trying to get Canada to play RL but nobody there wants to know, and as for "Rich Canadians" or big contracts from American TV companies there wanting to invest, there aren't any. The phoney TWP club PAY the TV companies to be on TV. The whole thing is factually a complete failure. If you disagree on the basis "I would say that wouldn't I" then consider the Superleague Chairman's view that the TWP expansion plan is nothing more than "dressing up squads of players from here in American jerseys" .

And somehow I should be driven off this forum for failing to join in with the American dream......

Funnily enough I do believe that Perez wants RL to ' Take off ' in Canada , Toronto perhaps being his 2nd attempt , but a combination of ambitious owner and coach getting in the way of his ' dream ' , so let's see if his 3rd attempt can fair any better , I am willing to give him the benefit of doubt on it , is probably his last shot at it though 

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5 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

The problem is you refuse to acknowledge and ignore the positive comments regarding twp that are made also by people in power. Elstone being one of them. 

There are positives , not many , the attendances at Lamport ( however they are achieved ) being the main one , and I'm sure Robert Elstone and the powers that be at our premier clubs cannot fail to be impressed by them , but ultimately it is the SL owners who will decide if they are willing to accommodate Toronto , I'm sure they want to , but Toronto will have to dance to their tune , and ATM I would expect caution to be the main course of action , no matter what they actually say publically 

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2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

There are positives , not many

I would say, and a lot of people would agree, that there are many positives and these far outweigh the few issues that some people believe Twp may have.

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7 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

There are positives , not many , the attendances at Lamport ( however they are achieved ) being the main one , and I'm sure Robert Elstone and the powers that be at our premier clubs cannot fail to be impressed by them , but ultimately it is the SL owners who will decide if they are willing to accommodate Toronto , I'm sure they want to , but Toronto will have to dance to their tune , and ATM I would expect caution to be the main course of action , no matter what they actually say publically 

I found the start a bit surprising, as I think TWP offer more positives (and negatives) than any of the teams that could join SL. Hence wondering if you don't consider the following significant or otherwise discounted them? 

- merchandise is professional and income appears strong

- some of the biggest sponsorships in the sport

- increased media coverage

- very high matchday income from beer garden

- extra TV time slots

The elephant in the room is a potential TV deal. There's a high chance of someone quoting me using the phrase 'jam tomorrow', but even a small chance of TV money has to be considered as a plus. Though we shouldn't be seduced by that alone and make sure we review properly. 

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5 hours ago, Omott91 said:

I would say, and a lot of people would agree, that there are many positives and these far outweigh the few issues that some people believe Twp may have.

Other than the excellent interest shown by the attendees at Lamport , perhaps the extra media pages we have seen due to their participation could be argued as another ( although as I've put , how much better would that have been with a couple of genuine Canadians in the team) positive , other than that , please tell us 

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4 minutes ago, Cowardly Fan said:

I found the start a bit surprising, as I think TWP offer more positives (and negatives) than any of the teams that could join SL. Hence wondering if you don't consider the following significant or otherwise discounted them? 

- merchandise is professional and income appears strong

- some of the biggest sponsorships in the sport

- increased media coverage

- very high matchday income from beer garden

- extra TV time slots

The elephant in the room is a potential TV deal. There's a high chance of someone quoting me using the phrase 'jam tomorrow', but even a small chance of TV money has to be considered as a plus. Though we shouldn't be seduced by that alone and make sure we review properly. 

Merchandise ? , Yes decent product and sales , but I'd doubt profits are huge 

Some big names , yes , but mainly the contra deal with Airtransat which is vital to being Intercontinental 

Media I highlighted above , yes

Very high income from alcohol sales ? , Is there ? , Are they ? , You know this for certain ? ,Or do they just pay a nominal fee to be on site , Lamport doesn't as far as I understand it have any permanent food or drink facilities , more a marketing exercise I'd suggest 

Yes an extra time slot ,that Toronto actually pay for 

Your post seems to hint at you believing they are ATM a viable breaking even business , very doubtful I'd suggest 

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"He had six years at it and failed in the face of union dominance "

He's on ignore, so I only get the highlights now and here's another one where he proclaims yawn owns the entire universe and there's no point trying.

And this gem

"And somehow I should be driven off this forum for failing to join in with the American dream...... "

Parky no one cares if you support the American dream or not and everyone's having too much fun to want you to leave.

You are the supreme example of why Eric Perez is needed, correct and the only way to go without you we'd probably be talking about how good TGG is all the time. You're the 18-30 holiday of RL! You're the Caramac advert with the sexy voiced Rabbit! The Bernard Manning of Forbidden Game! The Elmer Fudd of Forums!

Bring back the biff and Keep Parky Posting ..... 30 more years! 30 more years!

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Oxford said:

"He had six years at it and failed in the face of union dominance "

He's on ignore, so I only get the highlights now and here's another one where he proclaims yawn owns the entire universe and there's no point trying.

And this gem

"And somehow I should be driven off this forum for failing to join in with the American dream...... "

Parky no one cares if you support the American dream or not and everyone's having too much fun to want you to leave.

You are the supreme example of why Eric Perez is needed, correct and the only way to go without you we'd probably be talking about how good TGG is all the time. You're the 18-30 holiday of RL! You're the Caramac advert with the sexy voiced Rabbit! The Bernard Manning of Forbidden Game! The Elmer Fudd of Forums!

Bring back the biff and Keep Parky Posting ..... 30 more years! 30 more years!

So why have somebody on ignore ?

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2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So why have somebody on ignore ?

Because he perpetually repeats himself and insults people all the time, and he's rarely any fun at all.

Bring back the biff and Keep Parky Posting ..... 30 more years! 30 more years! 

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Merchandise ? , Yes decent product and sales , but I'd doubt profits are huge 

Some big names , yes , but mainly the contra deal with Airtransat which is vital to being Intercontinental 

Media I highlighted above , yes

Very high income from alcohol sales ? , Is there ? , Are they ? , You know this for certain ? ,Or do they just pay a nominal fee to be on site , Lamport doesn't as far as I understand it have any permanent food or drink facilities , more a marketing exercise I'd suggest 

Yes an extra time slot ,that Toronto actually pay for 

Your post seems to hint at you believing they are ATM a viable breaking even business , very doubtful I'd suggest 

Very interesting, thanks for the reply.

Merchandise income won't be huge, but looks like it's better than most clubs.

Alcohol sales definitely. Given the amount spent there, whether they charge a fee or take a % it is a very significant income. Suppliers would pay a lot to have that sort of access. 

I think they still make a loss, but aren't a long way away from break even. People tend to fixate on the travel (which is covered) and miss things like their stadium cost being a peppercorn rent. 

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1 minute ago, Oxford said:

Because he perpetually repeats himself and insults people all the time, and he's rarely any fun at all.

Bring back the biff and Keep Parky Posting ..... 30 more years! 30 more years! 

So why comment on somebody you have on ignore ? , Just ignore them ,seems weird to me 

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1 minute ago, Cowardly Fan said:

Very interesting, thanks for the reply.

Merchandise income won't be huge, but looks like it's better than most clubs.

Alcohol sales definitely. Given the amount spent there, whether they charge a fee or take a % it is a very significant income. Suppliers would pay a lot to have that sort of access. 

I think they still make a loss, but aren't a long way away from break even. People tend to fixate on the travel (which is covered) and miss things like their stadium cost being a peppercorn rent. 

As I put , Lamport as far as I know doesn't have any permanent concession facilities on site , how it works hasn't been explained , do you have any actual proof of how it provides income ? , It's pure guesswork 

You seriously think they are close to breaking even , I'd say they are losing 2 million + a year ATM

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24 minutes ago, Cowardly Fan said:

Merchandise income won't be huge, but looks like it's better than most clubs.

The difference is simply they look forward and positive and as though they mean it and most, if not all SL clubs make it look like an apology for turning up.

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Oxford said:

The difference is simply they look forward and positive and as though they mean it and most, if not all SL clubs make it look like an apology for turning up.

So because they have a ' positive attitude ' they are going to save our world ? Seriously ?

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1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

As I put , Lamport as far as I know doesn't have any permanent concession facilities on site , how it works hasn't been explained , do you have any actual proof of how it provides income ? , It's pure guesswork 

You seriously think they are close to breaking even , I'd say they are losing 2 million + a year ATM

I don't have insider knowledge. A huge amount of alcohol is sold there, so that means TWP can charge a significant fee to the suppliers as plenty would compete for it. The amount would be guesswork but that it's good income isn't.

If I had to guess I'd say 750k loss. That's way ahead of where I thought they would be, and given their advantages could break even relatively quickly. 

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56 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So because they have a ' positive attitude ' they are going to save our world ? Seriously ?

Who said that? 

I just contested when you said the positives were limited. It's possible for them to be both a plus for SL and not single handedly save the sport. 

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