Is this the start of youth Grassroots in Canada

[Davo5]

Sorry for going back to this threads topic.

[Tommygilf]

9 hours ago, The Parksider said:

When it comes to the "positives" as regards TWP there aren't any,

And thus reasonable debate ends.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

And thus reasonable debate ends.

I understand that people can be blinkered and biased but to say there are absolutely no positives is absurd and a blatant lie. You can't have a reasonable debate with people like that.

[Oxford]

50 minutes ago, Damien said:

I understand that people can be blinkered and biased but to say there are absolutely no positives is absurd and a blatant lie. You can't have a reasonable debate with people like that.

Of course you can, Like Nigel Farage, the meaningful debate is when you agree with him.

[dkw]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

I understand that people can be blinkered and biased but to say there are absolutely no positives is absurd and a blatant lie. You can't have a reasonable debate with people like that.

And people wonder why Parky gets grief on here ha ha, I look forward to his white knights defending that kind of garbage.

[CanaBull]

I'd just like to add that the person heading up the Haldimand Wolfpack is a as much a part of the fabric of Canadian Rugby League as Perez or Jamie Lester.  Canada Rugby League to the core and if the resources can find their way there I'm sure it will be a growing program.

[Oxford]

On 17/06/2019 at 10:35, Tommygilf said:

we have Salford in SL who don't do any

This is not true and it doesn't help to get things wrong in front of the Master of Wrongness!

Or coals to Newcastle and all that.

[North but south]

15 hours ago, The Parksider said:

When it comes to the "positives" as regards TWP there aren't any, and as for the slogan "Rugby Balls in kids hands" all those rugby balls were Union ones and you know it. Once again the $Billionaire is simply not developing any grassroots whatsoever, go back to 2016 and read the Perez plan. It did not involve junior development as Canada has no infrastructure for it anyway. You need development officers, the schools playing the game, you need amateur clubs running junior sections, you need parents to administer and coach all this and they are just not there, and the Billionaire is not interested anyway. The only people interested in RL at TWP just want to turn up on a matchday, get boozed up and cheer on an English club in North American Jerseys.

There is still a junior RL game in Widnes and an infrastructure for it with Widnes academy mid table. Yes Salford abandoned the academy but why is this a reason to allow TWP not to bother either? These empty contrived replies are unnecessary so give us all a rest here and don't bother replying next time.

On the Salford issue there was a plan to revive the academy with a joint effort with Leigh, whose owner wants to invest in the game again including a return to SL and a push on junior development/academy but can't do so because Argyle is swamping his championship mercenaries  with so much money that Leigh can't compete which shows you the sort of damage a Transatlantic league would do to the game here. Money is only a good investment if invested in the right things. Like junior development Mr. Argylle.

Just to point out the bc challenge cup, a schools competition, was sponsored and advertised by the TWP. Saying they do nothing towards youth development isn't completely true.

Just a thought but if Toronto are swamping the championship with mercenaries then surely Leigh would be better blooding their academy players. We've seen without Toronto several teams simply bought players instead of youth and scaled back on youth development. Having a team flush with money means a few good youth players could fund the whole youth development program for years.

Crewe Alexander have done well out of this idea and played at a higher level than they should.

[latchford albion]

9 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Sorry for going back to this threads topic.

But Parky wrote that all those ruby balls in kids' hands were union balls.  I don't know what to think now, your post is obviously fake news.

[GUBRATS]

50 minutes ago, North but south said:

Having a team flush with money means a few good youth players could fund the whole youth development program for years.

Crewe Alexander have done well out of this idea and played at a higher level than they should.

I don't quite understand what you mean with this ?

Are you suggesting a club like Leigh could develop junior players to sell to bigger clubs ?

[GUBRATS]

3 hours ago, dkw said:

And people wonder why Parky gets grief on here ha ha, I look forward to his white knights defending that kind of garbage.

I have already stated my differences with parksiders opinions several times , his opinions are his and he is free to post them , which he does without insulting anybody , others are free to ignore or not as they want , some reply in a courteous manner , some don't and just insult 

Do I agree with his latest post , some things yes , and some no , but I don't need , and I'm sure he doesn't expect anybody to defend him HTH

[Davo5]

40 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I have already stated my differences with parksiders opinions several times , his opinions are his and he is free to post them , which he does without insulting anybody 

Really,there must be 2 of them then.

[dkw]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

I have already stated my differences with parksiders opinions several times , his opinions are his and he is free to post them , which he does without insulting anybody , others are free to ignore or not as they want , some reply in a courteous manner , some don't and just insult 

Do I agree with his latest post , some things yes , and some no , but I don't need , and I'm sure he doesn't expect anybody to defend him HTH

Garbage. 

[Davo5]

At the other end of the age scale.

[North but south]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

I don't quite understand what you mean with this ?

Are you suggesting a club like Leigh could develop junior players to sell to bigger clubs ?

The argument seems to be that teams aren't producing academy player because it's too expensive and easier\cheaper to buy ready made. Now Parky seems to be saying that teams like Leigh aren't producing academy players because Toronto is cash rich, spending more than other clubs can. So why couldn't teams like Leigh produce players to sell to the richer clubs? If Parky is correct and Leigh can't compete with teams like Toronto and Toronto are simply buying all the players then wouldn't it be beneficial to attempt to benefit from this? Crewe funded their existence in producing player whilst Premiership team complain its too expensive. If done correctly some clubs could do well out of it selling not only to bigger UK clubs but also Australian.

Now I will admit I might have misread his post, since it's always quite long, and I was on my phone nearing my station when I read it.

[TheReaper]

On 15/06/2019 at 19:20, The Parksider said:

In year two of TWP do you think it was “positive” that Ryan Burroughs. Joe Eichner and Tom Dempsey who are quality North American RL players should have been sacked by Mr. Argyle? Don’t duck this question with insults man. Think about it. 

Why didn't any other clubs sign these three? After all RL is supposedly desperate for players... Ryan Burroughs is with Old Glory DC, but  Joe Eichner and Tom Dempsey seem to be unattached. Think about it.

[TIWIT]

35 minutes ago, TheReaper said:

Why didn't any other clubs sign these three? After all RL is supposedly desperate for players... Ryan Burroughs is with Old Glory DC, but  Joe Eichner and Tom Dempsey seem to be unattached. Think about it.

Are you implying they simply weren't good enough?

[GUBRATS]

55 minutes ago, North but south said:

The argument seems to be that teams aren't producing academy player because it's too expensive and easier\cheaper to buy ready made. Now Parky seems to be saying that teams like Leigh aren't producing academy players because Toronto is cash rich, spending more than other clubs can. So why couldn't teams like Leigh produce players to sell to the richer clubs? If Parky is correct and Leigh can't compete with teams like Toronto and Toronto are simply buying all the players then wouldn't it be beneficial to attempt to benefit from this? Crewe funded their existence in producing player whilst Premiership team complain its too expensive. If done correctly some clubs could do well out of it selling not only to bigger UK clubs but also Australian.

Now I will admit I might have misread his post, since it's always quite long, and I was on my phone nearing my station when I read it.

Have you ever heard of Jean Marc Bosman ?

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, dkw said:

Garbage. 

Thanks for your insightful contribution 

[GUBRATS]

47 minutes ago, TheReaper said:

Why didn't any other clubs sign these three? After all RL is supposedly desperate for players... Ryan Burroughs is with Old Glory DC, but  Joe Eichner and Tom Dempsey seem to be unattached. Think about it.

Hey probably weren't good enough , RL is desperate for top quality players 

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Really,there must be 2 of them then.

Compared to the insults we see even when he isn't/hasn't actually posted ?

[TheReaper]

3 hours ago, TIWIT said:

Are you implying they simply weren't good enough?

 

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Hey probably weren't good enough , RL is desperate for top quality players 

Precisely. It's not fair to hold TWP at fault for releasing them when no one else would sign them either. 

[Chamey]

4 hours ago, TheReaper said:

Why didn't any other clubs sign these three? After all RL is supposedly desperate for players... Ryan Burroughs is with Old Glory DC, but  Joe Eichner and Tom Dempsey seem to be unattached. Think about it.

I'd posit that that's slightly different. Any UK clubs that wanted to sign them permanently would have had to have got visas for them.

USA is a Tier 3 side for Rugby League. https://www.visalogic.net/uk/visa-requirements-for-rugby-league/4/170

Hence in order for a visa to be granted they would have had to start 75% of USA games over the previous two years, and be sponsored by a SL or Champ side. I believe that he missed the 2017 Americas Championship as far as I can find, and hence can't meet that criteria.

It was really TWP or nothing for the USA guys, seeing as they could get visas for UK sides. Burroughs played a decent amount for Barrow, Skolars and Wenty, he's not exactly a donkey, just not worth the risk and effort for Champ sides given that they have a lot of very cheap labour around them that they wouldn't have to pay full time wages to.

[The Parksider]

12 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

I have already stated my differences with parksiders opinions several times , his opinions are his and he is free to post them , which he does without insulting anybody , others are free to ignore or not as they want , some reply in a courteous manner , some don't and just insult Do I agree with his latest post , some things yes , and some no , but I don't need , and I'm sure he doesn't expect anybody to defend him...........

Well the definition of "opinions" are "The ideas that a person or group of people have about something which are based mainly on their feelings or belief".  I personally try to keep the argument factual. Much of the TWP cheer leading is emotional, people want to believe North America will save us, for some so much that they actually believe that is what TWP are doing. It leads to some very strange stances:-

1. They think Canada RL are now producing the Superleague players of tomorrow, because they can find some references to Canada RL still operating, even though nearly 10 years on the handful of players who got near pro level got sacked off because according to these people themselves they weren't good enough!!!

2. They constantly believe TWP are providing valuable publicity to the game, but they fail to value the publicity? The three biggest stories were when they were bad bad losers on the BBC against Warrington in front of the British Sporting Public and the game effectively ended as a sporting contest somewhere half way through the second half. It was disgusting. Noble could not speak. Plus if you want disgusting just go back a couple of weeks to the highly publicised owners even more disgusting comments to the Swinton player. Try also the publicity Mr. McManus and Mr. Pearson whom they need to impress gave them when they called TWP out as "an English squad in North American Jerseys", I bet Argylle and Perez were erm "disgusted".

3. TWP are charged with obtaining a NATV contract because they are of no value to the SKY contract. As it is they pay to be on TV which could not be a bigger embarrassment for TWP and Perez. Perez actually excused this saying that he needed "five to six north american clubs in Superleage before he could get that contract" . The simple point I have asked people to consider for nearly three years now is how does the game survive here, if (and this is what these people say) TWP, Ottawa, New York, Vancouver Boston and Montreal say replace six English "useless"Superleague clubs. People will not debate this I wonder why?

You see that is the ultimate North American plan Mr. Perez set out quite clearly and oddly nobody on what is a Rugby League debate site has in nearly three years ever debated this with me. Insults and calls for me to be ignored and even banned aplenty have been the reply, in what has been a "virtual reality Lynch Mob"

Thanks ever so much for your support BTW, not only you but some other realists who dip in now and again. In general though in the real world I find the vast majority of RL people enjoy the North American dream for what it really is, a novelty.

Finally I can't let you get away with your idea we should go to 14 to give TWP a chance in SL because TWP cannot succeed on the criteria they were set - home grown SL players and a TV deal. Give them even a 5 year run in Superleague and that won't happen by nearly everyone's measure. Plus you also fall for the catch 22 again here my friend. What happens to the 13th. & 14th. clubs in such a league? do they compete? do they even stand still? or do 2 clubs badly struggle, just to create an experiment in which we all know it cannot succeed unless we totally ingore Mr. Perez's own definition of success - a NATV deal worth many $$Millions and top quality NA players appearing for TWP.....Not my definition.........his.

[North but south]

9 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Have you ever heard of Jean Marc Bosman ?

Are you really saying that no players in rugby league have contracts? Also taking young players, undr the age of 21 i believe, require compensation for development cost even if they are out of contract.