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North but south

Is this the start of youth Grassroots in Canada

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1 hour ago, Manxmanc said:

the farms selling apples were still using bushels and pecks.

Great so when we have a trade deal they can cheat us left right and center cos no one'll have a clue over here the colonies and the empire strike back.

"glad to see there is something starting though  ..."

Where are all the naysayers wishing them well? Just a thought.

They've banged on and on and on and on about no development and when there is some you can't se their anuses for the flakes and fragments!

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While seeing some roots of community participation is great , it still isn't what Mr Perez suggested they would achieve , which was short term production of players , the gridiron idea just isn't going to happen , RU is the only realistic option , not be easy or cheap , but just a couple of squad players would create massive positive PR both in Toronto/Canada and within the RL community over here IMO 

No doubt I'll get criticism for not just accepting these initial set ups as enough , that is fair enough , I just believe a relatively small investment could reap some real rewards 

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13 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

While seeing some roots of community participation is great , it still isn't what Mr Perez suggested they would achieve , which was short term production of players , the gridiron idea just isn't going to happen ,  just a couple of squad players would create massive positive PR both in Toronto/Canada and within the RL community over here IMO 

No doubt I'll get criticism for not just accepting these initial set ups as enough , that is fair enough , I just believe a relatively small investment could reap some real rewards 

It's not "fair enough" at all.

Let's not forget they had four North American players in the squad first season then they sacked them off.

The grid iron idea was for instant conversions to RL because a grass roots game would take 20 years to mature as we all virtually agree, and probably another 20 years before TWP became self sufficient in players. However that would be dependant on being able to compete with North American Rugby Union for the best Rugby kids which is unlikely. Outside the M62 we can't compete with Union at Junior level.

So across the Northern Hemisphere it's only along the M62 that any significant numbers of quality Pro RL players can be developed.

And before anyone conveniently forgets, the Transatlantic plan was to have six North American clubs come into Superleague to get to enough North American content to find a NA TV deal.

Now this doesn't work, because dumping English clubs from Superleague will stop SKY giving us another TV deal.

Plus dumping  Pro clubs out of SL here will mean they won't run their player development systems here for the benefit of North American clubs who pushed them out.

Good luck to the kids now having a go at Rugby League in Canada but this changes nothing. The propose "expansion" plan doesn't work without an expanded player pool coming in now not in 20 years. Someone who should be neutral suggested I was moaning again, about issues like this but the reality is that this NA expansion plan doesn't work as the SL bosses candidly pointed out. I would like to see some in depth analysis of this in the RL media, with various higher profile people than me like Managers, CEO's coaches etc openly analysing  and discussing the Transatlantic plan in some depth. We shouldn't hide from discussing reality.

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16 hours ago, BadlyOverdrawnBoy said:

When I was in the Appalachians a few years back, the farms selling apples were still using bushels and pecks.

What is wrong with buying apples by the bushel or basket?   What the hell are you people using over there? "Well excuse me can I have 50 grams of apples please????????"

Please tell me that that scenario is not so...PLEASE!

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9 hours ago, Kayakman said:

What is wrong with buying apples by the bushel or basket?   What the hell are you people using over there? "Well excuse me can I have 50 grams of apples please????????"

Please tell me that that scenario is not so...PLEASE!

I love it! You can't get 50 grams of apples without cutting one in half! 

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1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

I love it! You can't get 50 grams of apples without cutting one in half! 

A bushel lasts a lot longer.

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Yes of course N but S, it is great news.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the uptake in Canada exceeded the growth rate here at home?

It could happen, especially if the Canadian clubs are successful in Super League.

They probably don't have the built in bias we have in this country so it might just surprise us all. 

I think the only one (in here) who doesn't wish them well is Parky.

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6 hours ago, North but south said:

Ffs can we not just say great news and hope this grows into something bigger without turning this into a Eric Perez lied thread.

No "we" can't be instructed collectively to respond positively en masse in this way. This is a great example of the thought police attitude on here that only one view must prevail. For your pleasure I will say that this is indeed great news just as it would be if a couple of new kids teams started along the M62. However that would not be a headline thread/story on here would it?.

That's because this news is being trumpeted in my view If you and others will allow it, as an excuse to shut down any debate on the lack of professional player development in North America. It's just worth being clear that a bit of junior development is wonderful  but that won't help the problem that if we remove English clubs for North American clubs who ship the relegated English squads to North America, it will break up the game and development here.

5 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Yes of course N but S, it is great news. Wouldn't it be interesting if the uptake in Canada exceeded the growth rate here at home?

It could happen, especially if the Canadian clubs are successful in Super League. I think the only one (in here) who doesn't wish them well is Parky.

And so here we go again. If I remind people getting carried away over a couple of kids teams, someone has to come in and have a go at me personally suggesting I'm someone out on a limb who actually hates the idea of growth in our game and any "Johnny Foreigners" playing it. Why would I not wish them well?

It is certainly worth reminding people AGAIN and especially you, who is obviously oblivious to the facts that if your a North American RL player of some talent the TWP do not want you as all the North Americans in the TWP squad were sacked off after year one - did you not know that?. As great as it is that we see a bit of development under the auspices of Canada RL, it wasn't great when Argyle ignored them and the chance to sign up when they ran a tent at a TWP game. Did you not know that either??

So it may help you that although we all think it's great kids are trying RL in Canada this is no reason to infer that the lack of pro-player development in Canada is now no longer a problem. It's a massive problem Mr Argyle doesn't care about.......... So go have a go at him?

Edited by The Parksider

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Fantastic news. Some have derided the absence of development and now scorn what efforts are being made. Surely, this is a move in the right direction which should be applauded by all who want the sport to grow. It may be baby steps but we all started walking that way. Development has to start somehow. It now needs nurturing.

Anyone that thinks the WP should already have Canadian players in the team a few years after the WP started playing is being unreasonable. That is the goal but throwing inexperienced RL players into a pro team would be of no benefit to anyone.

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My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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3 hours ago, The Parksider said:

 For your pleasure I will say that this is indeed great news just as it would be if a couple of new kids teams started along the M62. However that would not be a headline thread/story on here would it?.

That's because this news is being trumpeted in my view If you and others will allow it, as an excuse to shut down any debate on the lack of professional player development in North America. It's just worth being clear that a bit of junior development is wonderful  but that won't help the problem that if we remove English clubs for North American clubs who ship the relegated English squads to North America, it will break up the game and development here.

And so here we go again. If I remind people getting carried away over a couple of kids teams, someone has to come in and have a go at me personally suggesting I'm someone out on a limb who actually hates the idea of growth in our game and any "Johnny Foreigners" playing it. Why would I not wish them well?

It is certainly worth reminding people AGAIN and especially you, who is obviously oblivious to the facts that if your a North American RL player of some talent the TWP do not want you as all the North Americans in the TWP squad were sacked off after year one - did you not know that?. As great as it is that we see a bit of development under the auspices of Canada RL, it wasn't great when Argyle ignored them and the chance to sign up when they ran a tent at a TWP game. Did you not know that either??

So it may help you that although we all think it's great kids are trying RL in Canada this is no reason to infer that the lack of pro-player development in Canada is now no longer a problem. It's a massive problem Mr Argyle doesn't care about.......... So go have a go at him?

I'm glad you think that the story about these kids playing in Canada is indeed great news. I don't know why you think a similar tale from the M62 would be less newsworthy.

I certainly don't want to curtail your involvement in any debate on any subject.

I'm glad that you think a bit of junior development is wonderful too. I am absolutely convinced that not a single contributer (other than Ra ra trolls) wants to see any reduction in the number, quality or span of British Rugby League clubs, quite the opposite. No-one here is advocating uncontrolled North American expansion to the detriment of UK rugby league.

Are you really surprised that people see you as anti-expansionist? When at every opportunity you've damned Toronto to hell? If you truly wish them well, why don't you say so, once in a while? Do you really expect Brian Noble to keep "players of talent" from North America if they can't compete? Would Hetherington keep lads from Leeds on, if they couldn't play well enough to get in a winning team? Come off it.

There is a problem of a lack of Pro player development in North America, point taken. There's one here too. From day one, British clubs have shirked the responsibility to develop players preferring to buy "cheaply" from Ra ra in Wales, Australia (in the early days), New Zealand and the Pacific nations, latterly Papua New Guinea or simply take from amateur rugby league clubs, usually without compensation. Whitehaven are hoping to strike gold in Nigeria. So nothing new there in Brian Nobles methods.

Developing home grown players is the hardest way to get them. The longest, most tortuous route, with no guarantees of actually creating players that will make it. It's no wonder, in a race to the top, it's low on everyone's list of priorities. It's low on your list Parky, you never mention it with regard to the game in the UK, only when berating Toronto .

Most people on here are interested not only in seeing their side win the grand final but in planting seeds that will ensure the long term survival and growth and prosperity of the game for years and years to come. They certainly don't want to see any further reduction, here our abroad.

You, sadly, seem resigned to the inevitable death of our game. Your comments reveal a complete lack of confidence in our game to hold it's own in the world. I believe, like Bob Brown, that it can thrive if we can only find the good grace to help and encourage newcomers instead of rejecting them point blank, out of fear or envy. 

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10 hours ago, The Parksider said:

No "we" can't be instructed collectively to respond positively en masse in this way. This is a great example of the thought police attitude on here that only one view must prevail. For your pleasure I will say that this is indeed great news just as it would be if a couple of new kids teams started along the M62. However that would not be a headline thread/story on here would it?.

What is your problem?

This is about a load of kids taking up rugby league, the start up of youth community clubs run by volunteers, and a high school competition, organized by the governing body ( crl and bcrl). A sport that they probably hadn't heard of 5 years ago.

If this was about Ireland instead of Canada it would be just as good news.

I would have thought you would have been very happy about this since one of your arguments against expansion into Canada is that there is no community game or youth development.

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29 minutes ago, North but south said:

What is your problem?

 

Oof, where do we begin with that. No doubt this thread will now follow a well trodden path of Parky posting miserable and baseless nonsense, others will pick him up on it and call him out, he will then respond saying no one is answering his questions, we will get told of for picking on poor little parky, thread will be locked....

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Is there anything like the RU Crusaders international high Performance Unit in RL?

Its offers the following to players from all over the globe: 

Airport pick up and drop off

Crusaders Training tee shirt & hoodie

Full access to view BNZ Crusaders trainings

Opportunity to meet BNZ Crusader players

Speed & Fitness testing

Strength & Conditioning programmes

Individual performance plan

Medical support

Full rugby report at the completion

Certificate of attendance

Full Gym access

Games training and membership with a local rugby club

Entry to two Super Rugby games

Nutritional and Mental skills advice

Game analysis sessions

Individual player reviews

Specialist Rugby training sessions at the BNZ Crusaders training ground

It’s produced 18+ international rugby players from the likes of Scotland, Japan, Fiji, USA and Canada.

You could send promising RL, RU and or Gridiron players over to the Wigan warriors or the Roosters for a few months to get there skills up.

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On ‎10‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 00:40, The Parksider said:

It's not "fair enough" at all.

Let's not forget they had four North American players in the squad first season then they sacked them off.

The grid iron idea was for instant conversions to RL because a grass roots game would take 20 years to mature as we all virtually agree, and probably another 20 years before TWP became self sufficient in players. However that would be dependant on being able to compete with North American Rugby Union for the best Rugby kids which is unlikely. Outside the M62 we can't compete with Union at Junior level.

So across the Northern Hemisphere it's only along the M62 that any significant numbers of quality Pro RL players can be developed.

And before anyone conveniently forgets, the Transatlantic plan was to have six North American clubs come into Superleague to get to enough North American content to find a NA TV deal.

Now this doesn't work, because dumping English clubs from Superleague will stop SKY giving us another TV deal.

Plus dumping  Pro clubs out of SL here will mean they won't run their player development systems here for the benefit of North American clubs who pushed them out.

Good luck to the kids now having a go at Rugby League in Canada but this changes nothing. The propose "expansion" plan doesn't work without an expanded player pool coming in now not in 20 years. Someone who should be neutral suggested I was moaning again, about issues like this but the reality is that this NA expansion plan doesn't work as the SL bosses candidly pointed out. I would like to see some in depth analysis of this in the RL media, with various higher profile people than me like Managers, CEO's coaches etc openly analysing  and discussing the Transatlantic plan in some depth. We shouldn't hide from discussing reality.

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

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13 hours ago, The Parksider said:

TWP do not want you as all the North Americans in the TWP squad were sacked off after year one - did you not know that?.

Quinn Ngwati played in 2017 and 2018. Did you not know that?

Edited by deluded pom?
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On ‎09‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 11:11, GUBRATS said:

While seeing some roots of community participation is great , it still isn't what Mr Perez suggested they would achieve , which was short term production of players , the gridiron idea just isn't going to happen , RU is the only realistic option , not be easy or cheap , but just a couple of squad players would create massive positive PR both in Toronto/Canada and within the RL community over here IMO 

No doubt I'll get criticism for not just accepting these initial set ups as enough , that is fair enough , I just believe a relatively small investment could reap some real rewards 

I don't think anyone thinks these initial set ups are enough. There can never be enough. I totally agree with your last sentence.


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Made a grave mistake today brought up the forum for a quick look on a computer at work and this meant I wasn't able to maintain my people on ignore. This had two results, I saw some stuff I wouldn't and I turned out to have made the correct decision.

The saddest thing by far was the reaction of those who tried minimalise a good news story for their own ends

It didn't surprise me but made think about people and what motivates them.

But then again

5 hours ago, North but south said:

If anyone is interested

 

6 hours ago, North but south said:

The inaugural BC Challenge Cup game result was

McMath Secondary School 42 vs 24 Point Grey Secondary School.

I am because any little step for TGG is an occasion for some celebration so thanks for posting this.

 

Edited by Oxford
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“I would!”     

 

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On 09/06/2019 at 03:49, BadlyOverdrawnBoy said:

When I was in the Appalachians a few years back, the farms selling apples were still using bushels and pecks.

We in the rest of America don't really consider that part of America, and I'm sure the local inhabitants would agree. 

To the point here, terrific news on the growth of teams in Ontario and as previously mentioned none of this happens without a fully professional team in Toronto. North America is a top down sports culture, you want growth at the grass roots- you plant pro teams for the youth to aspire to. 

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On 09/06/2019 at 06:11, GUBRATS said:

While seeing some roots of community participation is great , it still isn't what Mr Perez suggested they would achieve , which was short term production of players , the gridiron idea just isn't going to happen , RU is the only realistic option , not be easy or cheap , but just a couple of squad players would create massive positive PR both in Toronto/Canada and within the RL community over here IMO 

No doubt I'll get criticism for not just accepting these initial set ups as enough , that is fair enough , I just believe a relatively small investment could reap some real rewards 

01.) Perez wasn't in charge long enough in Toronto to to implement any sort of plan to convert football players. It could totally happen, nobody is putting any money into yet. The hero of USA 7s, Perry Baker, is a former football player. Let's see if Perez, now that the owners of the CFL's RedBlacks are onboard with him, can do anything in Ottawa along those lines.

02.) RU conversions can happen to, it's not a zero sum game. 

03.) All of this, all development of RL players from the United States and Canada, is going to be a long term project taking 10 to 15 years. 

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5 minutes ago, Onieda FC said:

01.) Perez wasn't in charge long enough in Toronto to to implement any sort of plan to convert football players. It could totally happen, nobody is putting any money into yet. The hero of USA 7s, Perry Baker, is a former football player. Let's see if Perez, now that the owners of the CFL's RedBlacks are onboard with him, can do anything in Ottawa along those lines.

02.) RU conversions can happen to, it's not a zero sum game. 

03.) All of this, all development of RL players from the United States and Canada, is going to be a long term project taking 10 to 15 years. 

I’ll start with 1).. Perez was told the current situation doesn’t support development, hence his departure.

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20 hours ago, The Parksider said:

 

It is certainly worth reminding people AGAIN and especially you, who is obviously oblivious to the facts that if your a North American RL player of some talent the TWP do not want you as all the North Americans in the TWP squad were sacked off after year one - did you not know that?. As great as it is that we see a bit of development under the auspices of Canada RL, it wasn't great when Argyle ignored them and the chance to sign up when they ran a tent at a TWP game. Did you not know that either??

So it may help you that although we all think it's great kids are trying RL in Canada this is no reason to infer that the lack of pro-player development in Canada is now no longer a problem. It's a massive problem Mr Argyle doesn't care about.......... So go have a go at him?

I see this guy is still going? Amazing.

Hi Parky! Your friend Oneida here, you know- the guy who actually lives in North America? Yeah dude. 

Your promotion/relegation structure cast off Quinn Ngawati and your byzantine player registration rules cast of Ryan Burroughs (who had to go to Australia, and then come back, all on his own dime). The impetus in a pro/rel system is to win. Now you've put that system in a country where it has no history and any team not in the top league is considered "minor league" and not on the same level as "real teams" at the top. Winning will always take precedence over development in set ups like that, as the Premier League is evidence of. How much young English talent has come out of Chelsea or Man City recently? There was one Englishman on the field when Spurs played Liverpool at one point. 

It is again worth reminding you of the following facts, which are not in dispute:

01.) You have absolutely no clue as to the sports culture of North America. Not a single clue.

02.) Canada RL is an amateur, volunteer run organization without two thin dimes to rub together. We're all tired of the tent story. The Wolfpack have partnered with local rugby organizations in Ontario, so give it a rest. 

03.) Development of North American players will take years, y-e-a-r-s. The example, as I will continue to show you until it lodges deep into your fact-resistant brain, is Auston Matthews of the Toronto Maple Leafs- a superstar of ice hockey who grew up in Arizona watching the "expansion into a non-traditional market team" Phoenix Coyotes and picked up the sport. That's how it works here. That's how it's gonna work in RL. Pro teams will attract kids to want to play for them. Matthews' presence now has tons of kids in Arizona- A ######' DESERT STATE THERE PARKY OLD BOY- playing ice hockey.

There are kids in the stands in Toronto now, Canadian kids, who will be kicking people's asses in England, France, and Australia in 2039.  

 

Edited by Onieda FC
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