Game isn’t waiting for the NRL

[Davo5]

6 minutes ago, Copa said:

If the State Government offers to spend $1.8 billion on stadiums they expect the GF to stay in Sydney.

Would taking it to Suncorp the best rugby stadium in Australia for one year be a deal breaker ?

The 46,000 capacity SCG might have plenty of history but for watching RL it's awful,even the Roosters are wanting out.

[Copa]

44 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Would taking it to Suncorp the best rugby stadium in Australia for one year be a deal breaker ?

The 46,000 capacity SCG might have plenty of history but for watching RL it's awful,even the Roosters are wanting out.

The NSW government wanted something like 25 years of GFs as part of the stadium construction deal. They are spending a huge amount of money on stadiums so they’d want the GFs to stay.

 

[Keith989]

1 hour ago, Allora said:

What big moves are happening in England?

Growth, developing the game in France, Ireland, Scotland and Wales, never  mind Italy, Croatia, Serbia and Lebanon.

The fact England can not get France to be competitive says EVERYTHING

 

 

There are moves happening with Ireland but just in the wrong direction. The RFL are trying to force the Irish fans to support a British team with this GB tour. 

[deluded pom?]

14 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

There are moves happening with Ireland but just in the wrong direction. The RFL are trying to force the Irish fans to support a British team with this GB tour. 

There's a tour?

[Davo5]

30 minutes ago, Copa said:

The NSW government wanted something like 25 years of GFs as part of the stadium construction deal. They are spending a huge amount of money on stadiums so they’d want the GFs to stay.

 

I get that but with the unavailability of a large modern stadium in Sydney for 2 /3 yrs surely it was a great chance to take the GF elsewhere for that short period,say Suncorp    next year,,Melbourne's Docklands stadium in 2021,then back to the new Allianz for a year until  the ANZ upgrade is finished.

[kiwis 13 6]

Under the previous NZ TV deal for NRL rights which i believe was in place from 2013 - 2018 it was estimated to be $18 million per year. The NRL club grant to the NZ warriors at that time was $7.8 million, so 18 million - 7.8 million = $11 million per year x 5 years = $55 million Profit over the 5 years.

http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/sky_nz_extends_rugby_league_deals

Current deal 2018 - 2022 where the annual mid season Anzac test was scrapped! The NZ NRL TV rights have been estimated at 150 million over the five year period. If correct that is $30 million/year - current NRL club grant to the NZ Warriors is 13 million/year. NRL's yearly profit from NZ TV rights alone is 17 million/year x 5 years of the deal = $85 million profit over 5 year deal.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/74473327/#comments

This is only for NZ TV rights over periods 2013 - 2018 and new deal 2018 - 2022. Then there are also other revenue stream the NRL makes from NZ including Merchandise, Radio rights, Sponsorship. Of the Profits the NRL makes each year out of NZ nothing is reinvested to assist the NZ rugby league communities the money came from.

 

[Tommygilf]

3 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

Under the previous NZ TV deal for NRL rights which i believe was in place from 2013 - 2018 it was estimated to be $18 million per year. The NRL club grant to the NZ warriors at that time was $7.8 million, so 18 million - 7.8 million = $11 million per year x 5 years = $55 million Profit over the 5 years.

http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/sky_nz_extends_rugby_league_deals

Current deal 2018 - 2022 where the annual mid season Anzac test was scrapped! The NZ NRL TV rights have been estimated at 150 million over the five year period. If correct that is $30 million/year - current NRL club grant to the NZ Warriors is 13 million/year. NRL's yearly profit from NZ TV rights alone is 17 million/year x 5 years of the deal = $85 million profit over 5 year deal.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/74473327/#comments

This is only for NZ TV rights over periods 2013 - 2018 and new deal 2018 - 2022. Then there are also other revenue stream the NRL makes from NZ including Merchandise, Radio rights, Sponsorship. Of the Profits the NRL makes each year out of NZ nothing is reinvested to assist the NZ rugby league communities the money came from.

 

I believe the phrase is 'mic dropped'

[Copa]

5 hours ago, Davo5 said:

I get that but with the unavailability of a large modern stadium in Sydney for 2 /3 yrs surely it was a great chance to take the GF elsewhere for that short period,say Suncorp    next year,,Melbourne's Docklands stadium in 2021,then back to the new Allianz for a year until  the ANZ upgrade is finished.

It was a great opportunity but money talks.

Hopefully they can convince the state government to let them at least go th Brisbane once.

[Gerrumonside ref]

7 hours ago, Allora said:

What big moves are happening in England?

Growth, developing the game in France, Ireland, Scotland and Wales, never  mind Italy, Croatia, Serbia and Lebanon.

The fact England can not get France to be competitive says EVERYTHING

 

 

With the resources available, what do you think is the key thing missing from the northern hemisphere strategy?

For example, Catalans have had success, get relatively decent crowds and have even moved games to Europe’s biggest soccer stadium.  That seems to be in keeping with looking at the work done with the New Zealand Warriors.

Toulouse aren’t far off gaining a second top flight spot for the French in the strongest domestic competition in the Northern Hemisphere.

I’m sure the NRL has operated with more political savvy than the RFL, but truthfully the incredible growth of English soccer since the early 1990s has made the sporting environment much more difficult for the Northern Hemisphere to grow.

[The Great Dane]

12 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

Under the previous NZ TV deal for NRL rights which i believe was in place from 2013 - 2018 it was estimated to be $18 million per year. The NRL club grant to the NZ warriors at that time was $7.8 million, so 18 million - 7.8 million = $11 million per year x 5 years = $55 million Profit over the 5 years.

http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/sky_nz_extends_rugby_league_deals

Current deal 2018 - 2022 where the annual mid season Anzac test was scrapped! The NZ NRL TV rights have been estimated at 150 million over the five year period. If correct that is $30 million/year - current NRL club grant to the NZ Warriors is 13 million/year. NRL's yearly profit from NZ TV rights alone is 17 million/year x 5 years of the deal = $85 million profit over 5 year deal.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/74473327/#comments

This is only for NZ TV rights over periods 2013 - 2018 and new deal 2018 - 2022. Then there are also other revenue stream the NRL makes from NZ including Merchandise, Radio rights, Sponsorship. Of the Profits the NRL makes each year out of NZ nothing is reinvested to assist the NZ rugby league communities the money came from.

 

You keep asserting that nothing is reinvested into the NZ RL community but that is obviously utter BS because the NRL keeps investing in player development in NZ.

So to start off your premise is just wrong, but more importantly you refuse to say what you actually want the NRL do! 

What is it that you actually want from them, why should they give it to you, and who are you to ask for it?

From all that you have said you are basically asserting that the NRL owes the NZRL something because the NRL is developing players from NZ. So not only are you asking the NRL to pay the NZRL for work that the NRL is doing and funding themselves, it also could be interpenetrated that you are arguing that the NZRL owns, or at least has some sort of rights to, any player from NZ, and that is an incredibly dangerous path to walk.  

[Damien]

1 hour ago, The Great Dane said:

You keep asserting that nothing is reinvested into the NZ RL community but that is obviously utter BS because the NRL keeps investing in player development in NZ.

So to start off your premise is just wrong, but more importantly you refuse to say what you actually want the NRL do! 

What is it that you actually want from them, why should they give it to you, and who are you to ask for it?

From all that you have said you are basically asserting that the NRL owes the NZRL something because the NRL is developing players from NZ. So not only are you asking the NRL to pay the NZRL for work that the NRL is doing and funding themselves, it also could be interpenetrated that you are arguing that the NZRL owns, or at least has some sort of rights to, any player from NZ, and that is an incredibly dangerous path to walk.  

To be fair the Kiwi posters on here have posted facts and figures to back up their claims. Therefore have you any figures to back up what you say the NRL is investing in player development in NZ? Does it come anywhere near bridging the gap in NZ TV money rights and what is given to the Warriors?

 

[kiwis 13 6]

6 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

You keep asserting that nothing is reinvested into the NZ RL community but that is obviously utter BS because the NRL keeps investing in player development in NZ.

So to start off your premise is just wrong, but more importantly you refuse to say what you actually want the NRL do! 

What is it that you actually want from them, why should they give it to you, and who are you to ask for it?

From all that you have said you are basically asserting that the NRL owes the NZRL something because the NRL is developing players from NZ. So not only are you asking the NRL to pay the NZRL for work that the NRL is doing and funding themselves, it also could be interpenetrated that you are arguing that the NZRL owns, or at least has some sort of rights to, any player from NZ, and that is an incredibly dangerous path to walk.  

The NRL club grant covers wages, NZ warriors get the same as any club 13 millon/year, a business paying workers is not investment its operating costs. NRL profits are spent on all sort of things like ADMIN costs. the bunker, Melbourne Storm get a special grant several million/year,  ARLC is given millions in grants from NRL profits that it distributes to Australian State Leagues. The $100, 000, 000+ the NRL has made in Profit from NZ over the last decade I can find only one instance of NRL/ ARLC reinvesting some of the profits to assist NZ communities or the NZRL. That was in 2015 NZRL could not afford to send NZ schoolboys side to Australia to play the Australian Schoolboys so ARLC paid the NZ schoolboys airfares which would have cost $10,000. But that is a drop in the ocean to the 100 million profit generated from NZ over the last decade! I doubt most people  realize what it is like in the New Zealand communities where Rugby League is the NO 1 sport and has been played for 100+ years - South Auckland, Wanuiomata, Tokoroa, Huntly, Greymouth they are all tough places to live with high unemployment.

[The Great Dane]

8 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

The NRL club grant covers wages, NZ warriors get the same as any club 13 millon/year, a business paying workers is not investment its operating costs. NRL profits are spent on all sort of things like ADMIN costs. the bunker, Melbourne Storm get a special grant several million/year,  ARLC is given millions in grants from NRL profits that it distributes to Australian State Leagues. The $100, 000, 000+ the NRL has made in Profit from NZ over the last decade I can find only one instance of NRL/ ARLC reinvesting some of the profits to assist NZ communities or the NZRL. That was in 2015 NZRL could not afford to send NZ schoolboys side to Australia to play the Australian Schoolboys so ARLC paid the NZ schoolboys airfares which would have cost $10,000. But that is a drop in the ocean to the 100 million profit generated from NZ over the last decade! I doubt most people  realize what it is like in the New Zealand communities where Rugby League is the NO 1 sport and has been played for 100+ years - South Auckland, Wanuiomata, Tokoroa, Huntly, Greymouth they are all tough places to live with high unemployment.

The NZRL don't get grants from the NRL like the Australian state leagues and other costs that the NRL incurs because they aren't under the ARLC's jurisdiction, if you (the NZRL) want similar grants then you'd need to come under their jurisdiction (i.e. join the ARLC as a member in a similar fashion to the state leagues, or be bought out by the NRL), what is so hard to understand about that?

Also, you are totally ignoring all the player development that the NRL does in NZ (it's not an exaggeration to say that without said development 85-95% of all professional Kiwi players wouldn't be playing the sport), and you've failed to address the main things that I've been asking you again:

• What exactly do you want from the NRL for "strip mining" NZ?
• Being specific what exactly do you want 'compensation' for? I.e. what exactly are you asserting is the action of strip mining, developing NZ players?
• Are you saying that the NRL shouldn't be allowed to operate in NZ and if so on what grounds?

BTW, the Storm don't get those extra grants anymore and haven't for years, and the NRL has topped up Kiwis match day payments and assisted in there travel cost before multiple times, and finally all of those things that the NRL spend their profits on are more than payed for by profits made in Australia, so attributing their funding to profits made in NZ is disingenuous at best.

[The Great Dane]

10 hours ago, Damien said:

To be fair the Kiwi posters on here have posted facts and figures to back up their claims. Therefore have you any figures to back up what you say the NRL is investing in player development in NZ? Does it come anywhere near bridging the gap in NZ TV money rights and what is given to the Warriors?

 

Nobody is disputing their facts and figures, because every single one of their facts and figures is a total aside from the argument. The argument isn't whether or not the NRL makes money in NZ!

The argument is firstly whether or not the NRL owe the NZRL or RL communities in NZ anything for making a profit in NZ, and secondly, whether or not they actually do give back to NZ RL by developing all their pro-players for them.

On whether or not I have statistics; I don't think that anybody has actually collected the amount of players from NZ developed by the NRL into statistics, but even if somebody had would I really have to provide figures about NRL development in NZ?

Seriously just look up pro players from NZ, almost all of them came through an NRL clubs system, the ones that didn't went through a RU system before eventually being signed by an NRL club, and apart from the Warriors (which are part of the NRL anyway) there is no RL development system in NZ that goes from junior to professional that I know of (Mainly because there're no pro clubs in NZ apart from the Warriors, so none of the NZ clubs really have the means to develop players into professionals).

What you are asking is a bit like asking somebody to provide statistics on NFL players developed outside of the USA, the statistics don't need to exist because realistically apart from maybe some Canadians that went through the CRL system there are no NFL players developed outside of the USA.

Another analogy would be a Scottish player. Imagine that there was a Scottish player that was born and grew up in Scotland, he played Rugby as a kid then as a school boy a Super League club signed him to a contract, brought him down to England, taught him RL, taught him all the skills to play RL, gave him an opportunity to be successful, and he then went on to be successful and become a pro RL player. The SRL didn't develop our hypothetical kid into a professional player did they, the English Super League club and RFL system did. By and large that's what is happening with NRL and NZ players (the only real difference is that a lot of the NRL players from NZ have at least some experience playing RL at one point or another as kid before they are signed by an NRL club).

[Lowdesert]

So, what has all this to do with the NRL not being bothered to support the recent RLIF meeting voting?  Complete red herring.  

For the richest body in RL to ignore such collaboration is amateurish and unnecessary.

[kiwis 13 6]

 

4 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

 

• Being specific what exactly do you want 'compensation' for? I.e. what exactly are you asserting is the action of strip mining, developing NZ players?
• Are you saying that the NRL shouldn't be allowed to operate in NZ and if so on what grounds?

BTW, the Storm don't get those extra grants anymore and haven't for years, and the NRL has topped up Kiwis match day payments and assisted in there travel cost before multiple times, and finally all of those things that the NRL spend their profits on are more than payed for by profits made in Australia, so attributing their funding to profits made in NZ is disingenuous at best.

I did not say the NRL should not be in NZ. I am talking about 10% of annual profits the NRL gets from the NZ market should be reinvested back into New Zealand. These funds would be used to establish Junior Academies in NZ similar to what exists in Australia. As well as reestablish a national semi pro comp, representative program every year with funding fixtures and tours for the NZ Residents, Kiwi ferns, NZ Schoolboys. 

The articles below cover the massive loss of NZ Rugby League Juniors to Australia. These numbers are not inclusive of NZ Rugby union juniors but registered NZ Rugby League Juniors moving to Australia.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/league/were-losing-500-players-year-auckland-rugby-league-desperate-structure-change-keep-talent-here

http://www.rmcullen.com/op-moving_to_australia.php

As for the storm, part of the News Ltd exit from the game was that the NRL fund the Storm several million dollars extra on top of the club grant every year until 2022, but you can do your own research!!!

Yes The NRL/ARLC has assisted NZRL financially on a few sporadic occasions but there is no regular reinvestment, the amounts are tiny compared to the $100+ million the NRL has generated in profit from NZ market in the last decade. Plus usually a catch that ARLC recoups the money from test match revenue so its loan dressed up as assistance. 

2 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

So, what has all this to do with the NRL not being bothered to support the recent RLIF meeting voting?  Complete red herring.  

For the richest body in RL to ignore such collaboration is amateurish and unnecessary.

The relevance is the Tonga vs Australia test match in Auckland last year. Australia players took a pay cut and the money saved in wages by the ARLC/NRL was paid to Tongan players. Good on the Australian players but the ARLC/NRL kept the profits, when 90% of the crowd came from the Tongan community. ARLC/NRL have very rotten business practices, a percentage of the estimated $1 million match profits should have been granted to help the Game in the Tonga, or funding for a dialysis machine or cyclone rebuilding in Tonga!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/109574995/tongan-rugby-league-team-aggrieved-at-small-profit-from-soldout-auckland-test-against-australia

 

[The Great Dane]

12 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

I did not say the NRL should not be in NZ. I am talking about 10% of annual profits the NRL gets from the NZ market should be reinvested back into New Zealand. These funds would be used to establish Junior Academies in NZ similar to what exists in Australia. As well as reestablish a national semi pro comp, representative program every year with funding fixtures and tours for the NZ Residents, Kiwi ferns, NZ Schoolboys.

Good so now we know what you want, but we still don't know why you want it (really why you think you deserve it)?

On what you want- 

You do realise that for any of that to be possible either the NZRL would have to come under the ARLC's jurisdiction in a fashion similar to the state bodies so that the NRL had some sort of control over how the money was invested, the business plans, etc, or the NRL would have to start operating in NZ independently of the NZRL, i.e. running competitions and the the such in NZ.

Now I don't have a problem with either of those scenarios, but something tells me that both the NZRL and you yourself would scream blue murder if the NRL was to attempt either of those things. So considering that it seems to me to be totally unresonable to expect what you are expecting when if you were to get it you'd say that it was further evidence of the NRL taking advantage of NZ.

On another note, why do those things in NZ when not only is it just as effective to do things the way they are doing it now, but it's also much cheaper to do it the way that they are doing it now, by tacking it all onto the Australian system?

In that sense you're literally making the same argument that people make about the Wolfpack when they say things along the lines of 'why don't they set up their own North American competition', because it'd be tens of millions of dollars more expensive and those extra expenses would make the whole project prohibitively expensive to the point that it'd basically not be worth doing anymore.

12 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

The articles below cover the massive loss of NZ Rugby League Juniors to Australia. These numbers are not inclusive of NZ Rugby union juniors but registered NZ Rugby League Juniors moving to Australia.

That is the NZRL's fault, not the NRL's!

You're losing so many juniors to Australia because the NZRL couldn't organise a ######-up in a brewery and have chronically mismanaged everything for decades to the point that there is no future in RL for young players if they stay in NZ (unless of course they can get into the Warriors system). So if you are going to be angry at anybody for that then be angry at the NZRL! 

And frankly, you should be thanking your lucky stars that the NRL is around to take those juniors into the NRL system in Australia (and Auckland) and develop them, because if they didn't all those players would be following the money and playing RU, and RL in NZ would effectively be dead! It'd literally be like RL in e.g. Wales instead of where it is today if it wasn't for the NRL being open to developing those players at the expense of young Australian players.

BTW, I (and frankly any reasonable person) would argue that is reinvestment into NZ RL, and in fact that it's probably the greatest reinvestment that the NRL could give because it's literally the only thing keeping the sport in NZ alive and as relevant as it is, and without it the sport would very quickly crumble away to almost nothing. 

[Tommygilf]

4 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Good so now we know what you want, but we still don't know why you want it (really why you think you deserve it)?

On what you want- 

You do realise that for any of that to be possible either the NZRL would have to come under the ARLC's jurisdiction in a fashion similar to the state bodies so that the NRL had some sort of control over how the money was invested, the business plans, etc, or the NRL would have to start operating in NZ independently of the NZRL, i.e. running competitions and the the such in NZ.

Now I don't have a problem with either of those scenarios, but something tells me that both the NZRL and you yourself would scream blue murder if the NRL was to attempt either of those things. So considering that it seems to me to be totally unresonable to expect what you are expecting when if you were to get it you'd say that it was further evidence of the NRL taking advantage of NZ.

On another note, why do those things in NZ when not only is it just as effective to do things the way they are doing it now, but it's also much cheaper to do it the way that they are doing it now, by tacking it all onto the Australian system?

In that sense you're literally making the same argument that people make about the Wolfpack when they say things along the lines of 'why don't they set up their own North American competition', because it'd be tens of millions of dollars more expensive and those extra expenses would make the whole project prohibitively expensive to the point that it'd basically not be worth doing anymore.

That is the NZRL's fault, not the NRL's!

You're losing so many juniors to Australia because the NZRL couldn't organise a ######-up in a brewery and have chronically mismanaged everything for decades to the point that there is no future in RL for young players if they stay in NZ (unless of course they can get into the Warriors system). So if you are going to be angry at anybody for that then be angry at the NZRL! 

And frankly, you should be thanking your lucky stars that the NRL is around to take those juniors into the NRL system in Australia (and Auckland) and develop them, because if they didn't all those players would be following the money and playing RU, and RL in NZ would effectively be dead! It'd literally be like RL in e.g. Wales instead of where it is today if it wasn't for the NRL being open to developing those players at the expense of young Australian players.

BTW, I (and frankly any reasonable person) would argue that is reinvestment into NZ RL, and in fact that it's probably the greatest reinvestment that the NRL could give because it's literally the only thing keeping the sport in NZ alive and as relevant as it is, and without it the sport would very quickly crumble away to almost nothing. 

I don't know if you're trolling or being wilfully ignorant here. What the guy is saying is that NZ over contributes to the NRL in terms of both players and TV dollars. That is undeniable.

The fact that you're insisting on the NZRL coming under the jurisdiction of the ARLC to receive any funding says more about Australia and the NRLs attitude to the rest of RL than anything I could write. No wonder the international game struggles when the NRL can't have total control (and right to reap the profits). 

[The Great Dane]

16 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I don't know if you're trolling or being wilfully ignorant here. What the guy is saying is that NZ over contributes to the NRL in terms of both players and TV dollars. That is undeniable.

That's not what he is saying at all.

He is saying that the NRL owes NZ something because it's reasonably successful in NZ (he also wilfully ignores everything that the NRL does give back...), which is a bloody insane.

Something tells me that the NRL is the only group that he (and you) holds to this standard, and that he isn't demanding that e.g. McDonald's has to pay local burger chains to operate in the NZ market...

Also I wouldn't deny that NZ over contributes to the NRL in terms of players (I don't know where you get the idea that they over contribute in TV dollars though), but I think it is a really dumb way of phrasing it that it totally oversimplifies what's actually happening. For a start, (as has been stated ad nauseum) with the exception of players that came through a RU system every single one of those players from NZ has been developed by the NRL, in an NRL system, with resources invested by the NRL, for the NRL.

16 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

The fact that you're insisting on the NZRL coming under the jurisdiction of the ARLC to receive any funding says more about Australia and the NRLs attitude to the rest of RL than anything I could write. No wonder the international game struggles when the NRL can't have total control (and right to reap the profits). 

How else could it work then?

They want regular grants (i.e. investment), just like any other investor the ARLC will want to be able to monitor where that money is being spent and get a return on their investment, the only way they can actually do that is if they own a piece of the pie and have access to the books, in this case the only way to do that would be if the NZRL either joined the ARLC or if the NRL somehow bought the NZRL.

Any other way and the NRL wouldn't have any control over the money and wouldn't be obliged to see a return on their investment. In other words they'd basically be gifting the NZRL huge sums of money that the NZRL could then use as they please, and that wouldn't be in either the NRL's interest or the NZ RL communities interest either because the NZRL is rather notorious for ####### money up against a wall at this point.

I also note that none of you are holding the RFL to the same standards that you are holding the NRL to, as nobody in their right mind would demand that the RFL pay out lump sums to the WRL, FFR XIII, and CRL, because the RFL has clubs in their system that run and operate in (and I guess make money in) their regions. Though I shouldn't really be surprised at such hypocrisy because there's a massive and totally unreasonable hate-boner for the NRL and anything to do with Australian RL on this site. 

[Damien]

21 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I don't know if you're trolling or being wilfully ignorant here. What the guy is saying is that NZ over contributes to the NRL in terms of both players and TV dollars. That is undeniable.

The fact that you're insisting on the NZRL coming under the jurisdiction of the ARLC to receive any funding says more about Australia and the NRLs attitude to the rest of RL than anything I could write. No wonder the international game struggles when the NRL can't have total control (and right to reap the profits). 

Indeed and well said.

That is the core of what is being discussed, lines of diversionary waffle doesn't change that. Some Australian posters on here sum up perfectly and reflect perfectly what is wrong with the NRL's attitude to the international game and the games wider development. For people outside of Australia, and those that are first and foremost Rugby League fans that wish to see the game grow, it is hard to understand that parochial and insular viewpoint.

[Tommygilf]

3 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

That's not what he is saying at all.

He is saying that the NRL owes NZ something because it's reasonably successful in NZ (he also wilfully ignores everything that the NRL does give back...), which is a bloody insane.

Something tells me that the NRL is the only group that he (and you) holds to this standard, and that he isn't demanding that e.g. McDonald's has to pay local burger chains to operate in the NZ market...

Also I wouldn't deny that NZ over contributes to the NRL in terms of players (I don't know where you get the idea that they over contribute in TV dollars though), but I think it is a really dumb way of phrasing it that it totally oversimplifies what's actually happening. For a start, (as has been stated ad nauseum) with the exception of players that came through a RU system every single one of those players from NZ has been developed by the NRL, in an NRL system, with resources invested by the NRL, for the NRL

Of course NZ disproportionately contributes TV Dollars. They have 1 team yet have put in a huge sum of money as detailed above - Catalans and Toronto certainly don't come close.

The financial give back from the NRL is solely to the Warriors.  

3 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

How else could it work then?

They want regular grants (i.e. investment), just like any other investor the ARLC will want to be able to monitor where that money is being spent and get a return on their investment, the only way they can actually do that is if they own a piece of the pie and have access to the books, in this case the only way to do that would be if the NZRL either joined the ARLC or if the NRL somehow bought the NZRL.

Any other way and the NRL wouldn't have any control over the money and wouldn't be obliged to see a return on their investment. In other words they'd basically be gifting the NZRL huge sums of money that the NZRL could then use as they please, and that wouldn't be in either the NRL's interest or the NZ RL communities interest either because the NZRL is rather notorious for ####### money up against a wall at this point.

I also note that none of you are holding the RFL to the same standards that you are holding the NRL to, as nobody in their right mind would demand that the RFL pay out lump sums to the WRL, FFR XIII, and CRL, because the RFL has clubs in their system that run and operate in (and I guess make money in) their regions. Though I shouldn't really be surprised at such hypocrisy because there's a massive and totally unreasonable hate-boner for the NRL and anything to do with Australian RL on this site

If it were the other way around would you accept Australia coming under the jurisdiction of New Zealand?

If the NZRL is structurally weak its probably something to do with it having little to no money. Equally I doubt what they would need would be huge sums in relation to the NZ tv money the NRL gets. 

As for the RFL, I am one of the keenest critics. However, having barely any money themselves, and not getting millions in TV rights from Wales(difficult to judge as it is a UK wide deal), Canada or France, they don't really make much if anything from TV money or have any ability to do anything like what you suggest. Indeed the RFL effectively funds the 2 WELSH teams, accommodates 2 French teams and probably 2 Canadians. Whilst they may be ###### in a lot of areas like organising internationals, they should get credit where its due. 

The hypocrisy comes only from an insular League competition barely being able to see past its own nose yet wanting to control every aspect of the game. The pacific international games being wrapped up in the NRL deal is a joke - no other major sport would allow one league to negotiate its TV deals for a number of international sides except maybe in NA? Perhaps that is what you want, an NFL style world where only that league matters and the rest of the world bows down before it???

 

[kiwis 13 6]

NRL's on field product is mostly positive and I think most people on here would agree with that.

But the impact the NRL had on NZ domestic semi professional game has been mostly negative. The current loss of large numbers of NZ juniors to the NRL is having a negative impact on the game. NZRL poor administration in the past and current lack of funds have also not been helpful to these situations. Rugby League in NZ is mostly played in former working class areas that are now economically depressed.  The NRL makes $17 Million/year in Profit out of the NZ market in TV rights alone and has yet to water the garden it harvests from. NRL's treatment of Tonga after last years test was also not good. Australian representative players to there credit took a pay cut to help fund Tongan players. NRL then kept the estimated $1 million in profits from the game and most of crowd came from NZ's Tongan Community! Tonga is a small developing nation lacking all kinds of resources! 

The NRL administration is currently not even trying to win good corporate citizen awards!