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Stealing the ball.

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On 15/06/2019 at 10:21, Bod said:

It's a Wigan thing, just look how many times Tomkins does it.

It’s such a “Wigan thing” that there’s not a player from any other team that does it. 🤔

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it  was never a problem when you could pinch the ball the onus was on the the player to make sure he kept hold of it,go back to that and problem solved.


 

You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
So that when they turn their backs on you,
You'll get the chance to put the knife in.

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Just now, my missus said:

it  was never a problem when you could pinch the ball the onus was on the the player to make sure he kept hold of it,go back to that and problem solved.

And see offloads pretty much disappear overnight.

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2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

And see offloads pretty much disappear overnight.

There used to be plenty of offloads when you could steal the ball with more than one in the tackle.

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6 minutes ago, Damien said:

There used to be plenty of offloads when you could steal the ball with more than one in the tackle.

Players, tactics, and defensive technique were different then. 

These days, every tackle would see two men hold the attacker up, third one come in and steal the ball. Nobody is going to promote the ball in that situation. 

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8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Players, tactics, and defensive technique were different then. 

These days, every tackle would see two men hold the attacker up, third one come in and steal the ball. Nobody is going to promote the ball in that situation. 

So you are guessing, there is absolutely no evidence to say they would disappear overnight. Most offloads currently happen before that 3 man scenario you describe anyway.

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24 minutes ago, my missus said:

it  was never a problem when you could pinch the ball the onus was on the the player to make sure he kept hold of it,go back to that and problem solved.

It's a skill I excelled in.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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14 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Players, tactics, and defensive technique were different then. 

These days, every tackle would see two men hold the attacker up, third one come in and steal the ball. Nobody is going to promote the ball in that situation. 

I'm sure the players would adapt and the skills of Knocker Norton, Harry Pinner and Mal Reilly may just reappear.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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50 minutes ago, Damien said:

So you are guessing, there is absolutely no evidence to say they would disappear overnight. Most offloads currently happen before that 3 man scenario you describe anyway.

That scenario wouldn't happen now because they cant steal the ball in that situation. 

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42 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I'm sure the players would adapt and the skills of Knocker Norton, Harry Pinner and Mal Reilly may just reappear.

that's just wishful thinking, defensively the game has moved forward massively in the last 30 years or so, not just in terms of fitness but the efforts put in to wrestling, defensive techniques have moved on, tactics have moved on. 

Giving the defence an advantage in being able to steal the ball isn't going to help the attacking side. 

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8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

That scenario wouldn't happen now because they cant steal the ball in that situation. 

That doesn't even make sense. 3 men in the tackle always happens. It was your scenario. More people attracted to try and steal a ball can create opportunities elsewhere.

Every RL rule change has unintended and unforeseen consequences and its ludicrous that you think you know exactly what will happen with a change of rules, no one does.

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1 minute ago, Damien said:

That doesn't even make sense. 3 men in the tackle always happens. It was your scenario. More people attracted to try and steal a ball can create opportunities elsewhere.

Every RL rule change has unintended and unforeseen consequences and its ludicrous that you think you know exactly what will happen with a change of rules, no one does.

Of course it makes sense, three men in the tackle does happen, but they don't try and steal the ball because they aren't allowed. If they were, they would, and to counter that attacking players would have to prioritise ball security over getting their arms free.

Its ludicrous that you think giving and advantage to the defensive side by allowing them to steal the ball wouldn't give an advantage to the defensive side. 

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2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Of course it makes sense, three men in the tackle does happen, but they don't try and steal the ball because they aren't allowed. If they were, they would, and to counter that attacking players would have to prioritise ball security over getting their arms free.

Its ludicrous that you think giving and advantage to the defensive side by allowing them to steal the ball wouldn't give an advantage to the defensive side. 

They rarely try to get there arms free in a 3 man tackle as it is and as is are scared of losing the ball due to a loose carry being given.

In your opinion its an advantage. Others would see it as just restoring parity and making things even again after numerous rule changes giving advantage after advantage to the attacking team and removing any competition for the ball.

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22 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

that's just wishful thinking, defensively the game has moved forward massively in the last 30 years or so, not just in terms of fitness but the efforts put in to wrestling, defensive techniques have moved on, tactics have moved on. 

Giving the defence an advantage in being able to steal the ball isn't going to help the attacking side. 

Defensive techniques would have to change yet again to subdue the change and the defensive part of our game can be as pleasing as the attacking part in fact the attacking part of the game today has become to predictable and so sterile.

 


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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1 minute ago, Damien said:

They rarely try to get there arms free in a 3 man tackle as it is and as is are scared of losing the ball due to a loose carry being given.

In your opinion its an advantage. Others would see it as just restoring parity and making things even again after numerous rule changes giving advantage after advantage to the attacking team and removing any competition for the ball.

Of course it is an advantage. Compared to now you are giving the defending team an advantage then for some reason pretending it wont give them an advantage while also arguing it should be done to give them an advantage. 

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12 minutes ago, Damien said:

That doesn't even make sense. 3 men in the tackle always happens. It was your scenario. More people attracted to try and steal a ball can create opportunities elsewhere.

Every RL rule change has unintended and unforeseen consequences and its ludicrous that you think you know exactly what will happen with a change of rules, no one does.

Not all changes have been for the better of the game.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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2 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Defensive techniques would have to change yet again to subdue the change and the defensive part of our game can be as pleasing as the attacking part in fact the attacking part of the game today has become to predictable and so sterile.

 

Defensive technique wouldn't want to subdue the change, they would want to exacerbate it. Attacking play would want to subdue it and the only way for them to do that would be to not promote the ball for an offload as they would be more likely to see it pinched or to drop to the floor quickly to complete the tackle. Im not sure why either of those things would make for a better game. 

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31 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

that's just wishful thinking, defensively the game has moved forward massively in the last 30 years or so, not just in terms of fitness but the efforts put in to wrestling, defensive techniques have moved on, tactics have moved on. 

Giving the defence an advantage in being able to steal the ball isn't going to help the attacking side. 

Just a thought, how comes Jake Conner seems to be getting the ball out reminiscent of the three I mentioned


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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Just now, Marauder said:

Just a thought, how comes Jake Conner seems to be getting the ball out reminiscent of the three I mentioned

 Because the defensive side can't steal the ball now. 

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2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Defensive technique wouldn't want to subdue the change, they would want to exacerbate it. Attacking play would want to subdue it and the only way for them to do that would be to not promote the ball for an offload as they would be more likely to see it pinched or to drop to the floor quickly to complete the tackle. Im not sure why either of those things would make for a better game. 

One way is boring the other gets the crowds on their toes in anticipation.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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Just now, Marauder said:

One way is boring the other gets the crowds on their toes in anticipation.

Both of those ways seem pretty boring to me. I don't want to watch forwards dropping to the floor and I do want to watch Ali Lauitiiti's and David Solomona's running around with the ball in one hand throwing it about in the tackle. 

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Just now, scotchy1 said:

 Because the defensive side can't steal the ball now. 

So ball stealing would enhance players ability to off load under pressure and in turn would bring more excitement into the game. Do you remember when and why they changed the law on ball stealing.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

And see offloads pretty much disappear overnight.

Not really in the NRL players are allowed to steal the ball with more than one in the tackle if players are attempting to offload or to score a try. That hasn’t killed offloading over there. 

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6 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

 Of course it is an advantage. Compared to now you are giving the defending team an advantage then for some reason pretending it wont give them an advantage while also arguing it should be done to give them an advantage. 

I don't think it is an advantage. For most of the games history it was allowed so your comparison to now is a little selective. As things stand now it is giving the attacking team an advantage, compared to what happened before, so obviously any deviation from this is less of an advantage. I have played under both and really don't see the advantage. The game now certainly favours the attacking team far more than at any time in its history.

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1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

Both of those ways seem pretty boring to me. I don't want to watch forwards dropping to the floor and I do want to watch Ali Lauitiiti's and David Solomona's running around with the ball in one hand throwing it about in the tackle. 

I'm sure back in the day we had more forwards capable of throwing the ball around in the tackle, James Graham has made a living out of it in the NRL


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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