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RL does what Sky says

How others see our game

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10 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Q. Should we remove them and re-start play with a PTB or tap.

A. I fear this would create a sport that looked far too repetitive to the casual observer

Couldn't agree more. A game offering even less variety would be a dangerous option to take (and I'm not a casual observer).

Edited by Hopping Mad

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8 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

The only conclusion I can come to is try and make the scrum more competitive

Yes, that would be my first option. I would only prefer the p-t-b option to scrums as they are at the moment.

In a tv match last week - and I now forget which - a player put the ball in the scrum only for the referee Chris Kendall to blow his whistle and say to the player "You've been playing the game long enough, you know where you should pout the ball, so put it back in correctly now." and let him do it again.

it therefore appears that feeding is no longer an offence, so again, what's the point ?

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2 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

I have taken several people to games who are football supporters. All loved the game.  TV companies have massive influence - look at how Channel 4 turned NFL into a great viewing spectacle.  I went to two NFL games and was disappointed in the game but loved the build up. The people I went with were bored to death and stopped watching Channel 4.

Have you watched live matches outside of Wembley?

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4 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

it therefore appears that feeding is no longer an offence, so again, what's the point ?

Feeding hasn't been an offence for years.


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37 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Feeding hasn't been an offence for years.

I'm not trying to be funny when I say it remains an offence but hasn't been penalised for years.

Rugby League is a funny sport now because it ignores great big sections of the law book (the scrum) while it is minutely pedantic about others (i.e. the knock on).

Add to this that some parts of the law book are universally ignored in one hemisphere (play the ball) and enforced in another.

And then we say we want refs to be consistent when we don't even enforce the laws of our game!

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36 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Feeding hasn't been an offence for years.

I certainly agree that with modern scrums it really doesn't matter where the scrum-half puts the ball and that the rule about feeding as it used to be no longer applies but that again raises the question .. "What's the point ?"

Again, any outsiders might think "Why does a referee blow his whistle to tell a player he has done wrong when what the player then does correctly brings the same result ?"

NB ... As I am typing this, Dunbar has beaten me to it with a comment I was going to make .... "it remains an offence but hasn't been penalised for years."

 

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Getting back on topic, I do think the big growth area for the men’s game in terms of spectators is women.

I’ve not done a big consultation exercise, but I know from 20 odd years experience working in Manchester that all the inquisitive conversations about rugby league have come from women who have been drawn in by Six Nations RU and want a local team to support (I always point them to Salford or Swinton and neglect to mention Sale!)

If I was in charge of marketing then this is the demographic I would go for in a big way as it would bring families and husbands too.

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52 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

I certainly agree that with modern scrums it really doesn't matter where the scrum-half puts the ball and that the rule about feeding as it used to be no longer applies but that again raises the question .. "What's the point ?"

 

Union is the same.....fed straight to number 5 and sometime number 8s feet

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On 15/06/2019 at 17:01, Futtocks said:

TGG is a term we can use among the already-converted.

However, I don't see the same cultural cringe in fans of Football (The Beautiful Game), Horse Racing (The Game of Kings) or The Dark Side (The Game they play in Heaven).

If you do come across someone who repeats the well-rehearsed Twickenham Creed of "the M62, New South Wales and Queensland", I wouldn't even bother trying to convince them otherwise. They are rock-solid in their delusion, and nothing will shake it, so are not worth your breath. In addition, when/if they do find out that that they're wrong, the realisation will be even more unpleasant (and richly deserved) for them.

Plenty of other folk, however, are open to enlightenment, as long as you don't come across as a didactic bore and monomaniac windbag.

Just ask them who are  the current holders of the CC

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On 17/06/2019 at 16:42, Dunbar said:

I'm not trying to be funny when I say it remains an offence but hasn't been penalised for years.

Rugby League is a funny sport now because it ignores great big sections of the law book (the scrum) while it is minutely pedantic about others (i.e. the knock on).

Add to this that some parts of the law book are universally ignored in one hemisphere (play the ball) and enforced in another.

And then we say we want refs to be consistent when we don't even enforce the laws of our game!

Ever read the laws on the PTB? A player can place OR DROP THE BALL at his feet and heel it backwards.

Just try it at any level of the game 

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2 hours ago, John Rhino said:

Ever read the laws on the PTB? A player can place OR DROP THE BALL at his feet and heel it backwards.

Just try it at any level of the game 

Another example of where, as a sport, we have decided to just ignore the laws of the game.

Edited by Dunbar

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I'm guessing that it would be called a knock on if anyone did it.  With contested PTBs the player playing the ball would drop it or get his hand kicked.


"I'm a traditionalist and I don"t think you'd ever see me coaching an Australian national side!"  Lee Radford, RLW March 2016

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Watching the Wigan v Hunslet Challenge Cup Final on You Tube, the players dropped the ball but heeled it before it hit the ground.

EDIT Carrying on watching the game after posting, Brian McTigue was penalised for striking at the ball before it hit the ground and Eddie Waring said, "the ball should hit the deck before either team strikes for it."

Edited by latchford albion

"I'm a traditionalist and I don"t think you'd ever see me coaching an Australian national side!"  Lee Radford, RLW March 2016

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On 16/06/2019 at 21:53, Damien said:

Football had already spread due to British influence around the World before those events you cite . Even FIFA, who aren't exactly known for their pro-British attitude cite:

The spread of football outside of Great Britain, mainly due to the British influence abroad, started slowly, but it soon gathered momentum and rapidly reached all parts of the world.

Yes England were insular once World Cup's etc commenced and regarding FIFA and the international game but the game had already spread across the World because of British influence. They are two completely different things.

You are referring to the initial growth at the very beginning. Yes British steel workers and ship and railway builders did export the game outside England but after that it was the French who took over. Given the game was born in England (Yorkshire to be precise) naturally it the was English who “spread it outside of Great Britain” at the start. You will see English influence in teams around the World (Barcelona, AC Milan, Newells Old Boys) but don’t misconstrue that as playing a leading role in the game’s subsequent globalisation (i used to think that myself).

Italian immigrants to Argentina, German immigrants to Brazil...examples of diasporas that spread the game, and at the top, French administration in all forms of the sport. Remove the French, there’s no FIFA, World Cup, European Championships, nor development in all the six FIFA confederations.

The sports that the Brits DID play a leading role in its growth are the two rugby codes and cricket, British Empire sports. If the Brits had taken a leading role in exporting football it would have happened within the British Empire too, they didn’t. 

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On 17/06/2019 at 01:00, Mr Wind Up said:

All the French did was channel the growth of the game into new commercial ventures. I won’t downplay the influence that had on the game, but to say the French are responsible for the growth and spread of the game is absurd.

The English were not zealots in trying to spread the game, but they were largely responsible for spreading the seed. They created clubs abroad for their own leisure, not for their hosts. But it just so happens that their hosts took a liking to it and ran away with it. As a matter of fact, T Collins mentions this in regard to RU, saying that RU would have been much bigger today had it not stuck to its amateur ethos and elitist nature abroad. And he’s probably right.

Yes, the seed, not the subsequent development. 

The biggest thing the English did for football (which Tony Collins mentions) was professionalising it, allowing its pathway for growth to go unimpeded. Other nations got on with internationalising the game, with the French as the leaders: the Fédération Internationale de Football Association (FIFA),  World Cup (Jules Rimet), European championships (Henri Delaunay) while the English held no interest in being part of it. The biggest club competition in the world, UEFA Champions League, proposed by Gabriel Hunot, editor of L'Équipe. 

International football was the equivalent of the EU, the English were outsiders, then joined the party much later on. 1950 was England’s first World Cup. 1957 was an English clubs first participation in the European Cup/Champions League.

There are a smattering of international clubs with English roots (three famous ones I mentioned), but that’s the extent of their role in globalising the game. 

 

Edited by DC77
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DC77 I completely disagree and actually think you are trying to argue something completely different to the likes of myself and Mr Wind Up. I will leave it at that there though as there is little point of going round in circles on a topic little to do with the thread.

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On ‎16‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 08:48, JohnM said:

One such comment featured the following .... "Without India, international cricket would just be a niche sport like Rugby League."

Therefore...it appears the game has never really grown in many other peoples' perception of it.

Many outsiders still believe that RL players are overweight and just come out of the pit to have a fight on a muddy field.

Wow, quite a leap there. I've never actually met anyone who express that last sentiment. However, if we are projecting from the specific to the general,  I have met someone (several in fact) non-fans who acknowledge the athleticism and skill of rugby league players,  and how much they enjoy the Challenge Cup final.

That's not to say there is not a problem, but it's essential in my mind to take a diagnostic journey rather than jumping to conclusions.

I have, but not recently.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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15 hours ago, latchford albion said:

Watching the Wigan v Hunslet Challenge Cup Final on You Tube, the players dropped the ball but heeled it before it hit the ground.

EDIT Carrying on watching the game after posting, Brian McTigue was penalised for striking at the ball before it hit the ground and Eddie Waring said, "the ball should hit the deck before either team strikes for it."

When I started playing competitive RL in my teens, this was the first skill we were taught.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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Just now, Trojan said:

When I started playing competitive RL in my teens, this was the first skill we were taught.

I remember at school playing to those rules too. Just one of the many areas were competition for the ball has been eliminated which has resulted in much less variation in the game.

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As far as a niche game goes, I'd apply the same argument to women's soccer.  Without the Beeb it too would be a niche game. 

Cricket has indeed suffered a decline in participants since they signed exclusively with Sky BTW.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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1 minute ago, Damien said:

I remember at school playing to those rules too. Just one of the many areas were competition for the ball has been eliminated which has resulted in much less variation in the game.

We certainly used to contest the PTB, and of course scrums were really competitive.  I'd like to see a return to competitive scrums, providing it wasn't a return to the perpetual scrum which ends with a penalty This is what Union had until they changed the rules. From scrums being an sixteen man shove,  the hooker of the side that has the put in  now must strike for the ball. Elminating many penalties. Although I timed a scrum last season in an international and from the offence, to the ball actually emerging, after several resets, took about five minutes.

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“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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6 minutes ago, Trojan said:

As far as a niche game goes, I'd apply the same argument to women's soccer.  Without the Beeb it too would be a niche game. 

Cricket has indeed suffered a decline in participants since they signed exclusively with Sky BTW.

I think women's soccer is a prime example of what can be achieved with proper media support. The sort which RL has never really got. For years Women's Soccer has been heavily pushed, way beyond what its actual support and attendances have deserved, and has reaped the fruit of this. I don't want to get in the ins and outs of whether this is deserved or just addressing a long overdue imbalance but it does show the effect of a compliant media and large support. Club RU too has argubly got to the level it has in this fashion too.

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1 hour ago, Trojan said:

As far as a niche game goes, I'd apply the same argument to women's soccer.  Without the Beeb it too would be a niche game

Cricket has indeed suffered a decline in participants since they signed exclusively with Sky BTW.

Why do people split women's and men's football as if they are two entirely different sports? The only way that the BBC can make the World Cup somewhat relevant is by relying on the fans of the men's game to take an interest. 

The only reason people are watching is because a World Cup is an event that people are happy to tolerate because it's a special occasion. No different to the people that tune in to Wimbledon and catch some women's tennis. They're watching because Wimbledon is an event (mostly propped up by the men's game), not because they care about women's tennis.

Women's football will always be niche outside of the big events because it's a much lower quality version of a sport that many watch a very high version of on a weekly basis. And there's not a damn thing the BBC can do about it. Shove it down people's throats all they like, the English ladies are going back to playing infront of 500 people when this is over.

1 hour ago, Damien said:

I think women's soccer is a prime example of what can be achieved with proper media support. The sort which RL has never really got. For years Women's Soccer has been heavily pushed, way beyond what its actual support and attendances have deserved, and has reaped the fruit of this. I don't want to get in the ins and outs of whether this is deserved or just addressing a long overdue imbalance but it does show the effect of a compliant media and large support. Club RU too has argubly got to the level it has in this fashion too.

The media clearly has an agenda in pushing women's sport. Whatever, they can do what they like. But in order for rugby league to get that kind of support, it needs to be played by women, and it needs not to be rugby league. That's the only way it'll happen. 

The national media are an absolute disgrace, akin to school children taking turns to pick their team. 

Edited by Mr Wind Up

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

I think women's soccer is a prime example of what can be achieved with proper media support. The sort which RL has never really got. For years Women's Soccer has been heavily pushed, way beyond what its actual support and attendances have deserved, and has reaped the fruit of this. I don't want to get in the ins and outs of whether this is deserved or just addressing a long overdue imbalance but it does show the effect of a compliant media and large support. Club RU too has argubly got to the level it has in this fashion too.

netball too... sky and their super league have done wonders for their game in terms of money in, professionalising and the viewing of it.

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