Tex Evans Thigh Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Cheers mate said it better than I could! Haha don't know about that! I'm sure there'll be another great example like Salford City to come demonstrating why we're wrong. Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 45 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Honestly the idea that if we opened up the pathway between the NCL and L1 millions would flow in to the NCL clubs to move them towards SL is absolutely the craziest idea I have heard on here. I excluded Toulouse and Toronto because they are entirely different but anyway their investment isn't dependent on being promoted via P+R. Toulouse applied for a franchise 15 years ago. Both of them are clubs whose development are hampered by P+R/ Of the clubs you listed, 2, Fev and Leigh, with the same owners, when we had an open pathway between SL and the championship, only last year couldn't afford to finish the season and had to borrow players. Mark Campbell and Derek Beaumont proved last year they do not have the millions necessary to scale those clubs to SL clubs. Bradford still have the fundamental infrastructure problems that saw them unsustainable in SL, they haven't addressed them at all. Until they do they are unsustainable in SL, if they did SL would be desperate to have them in. York are nowhere near. Its silly to pretend they can be scaled to SL level. As you admit its just a dream. I wont sit here and say the investment in these clubs would be the same if there were no automatic P+R . But can you honestly say that the investment that they are getting is enough to get them to SL and keep them there and sustain them? Because we seemed to have moved subtly away from there being the money their to invest in them and sustain them while they scale to SL level, and their being money put in to them to sustain them at a slightly higher level in the championship Please explain Salford to me. Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Also, no one is saying millions would flow into the NCL if it was an open pathway, which I'm sure you know. You don't need millions to compete in the championship let alone get promoted to League 1 if that were possible. What we are saying is that the chance of investment in NCL clubs is highly diminished because there is a ceiling on what can be achieved in that comp, whilst winning the NCL doesn't take much, if any, investment and the kudos is relatively low. Just like there would be less investment in league 1 and the championship if all you could win was the championship shield whilst knowing there was a higher standard and unattainable comp above you. No one is mentioning millions and millions and until you can explain how Salford can compete at the top end of SL with no money, no fans and no decent infrastructure but all the Championship teams you tell us aren't scalable can't, your argument doesn't hold water. Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Salford have improved since Koukash left. I think all those teams in the championship would take being 6th in SL, most already have a better core support and infrastructure than Salford. What do you want from these clubs? Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 I'll give you a better example than Parkside. Manchester Rangers wanted in to League 1. There is no pathway so they have to apply and get rejected. With an open pathway they could have worked through the NCL with what I assume is the investment that they would be getting to make them a League 1 outfit. Again, no one is saying there would be guaranteed investment in the NCL but the chances of there being investment are lower because there is no pathway. I'll repeat again, Salford are 6th in SL. This is an improvement on when Koukash was there. It is possible to compete in SL without being Leeds or Wigan and your lovely millions and scale. Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Salford dont run an academy, will lose the players that got them here at the end of season and dont have a pot to ###### in. Salford arent where they need to be. Salford fans and those in the club will tell you as a business.they arent where they need to be. Pre koukash the club was dead. It took millions of koukash money to get them to a point where they still need loans to be written off and others to invest to keep going. I want clubs coming in to SL.to have the facilities and backing to improve SL and take it forward. In a few years being possibly as good as the worst in SL if you get some luck and a fair wind isnt good enough Yes, I agree. There should be standards. I simply do not agree with you that clubs like Fev and Leigh are 100% not scalable and have zero chance of success. You are basing that on current income, crowds etc. Who's to say clubs like them couldn't attract more investment, sponsors, crowds etc once promoted. I should have known better than to get into this. I've made my points so I'm withdrawing before I end up in an asylum scratching the words millions and scale into the wall with my teeth. Hopefully we will see how one of these teams does next season. Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 7 hours ago, scotchy1 said: Who was dreaming of Salford.FC getting to the championship or Premier League before the footballers millions? None, how many of the fans of the teams they play against harbour similar ambitions? NCL sides arent set up for playing Professional RL, they are nowhere near. Most of their players wouldnt be interested in devoting more of their time to being L1 players, they have jobs and lives and mortgages, most of their fans already support other pro clubs. What investor is out there waiting to plough millions in to St Pat's or Egremont if only they could progress through the pro ranks? Who is seeing the necessity and opportunity in another pro club in Wigan or Hunslet or Cumbria or hull? The fact is your argument doesnt make sense, these clubs in the lower leagues have the pathway and dont have the backing, that is the problem they dont have the backing you say is created by that pathway. When we have had that pathway, as we had for decades, they still didn't get that backing. The premise that keeping that pathway open creates and environment where that backing will come is demonstrably false. No club in the history of the game has started as an amateur side, won promotion to L1, then the championship, then SL. The only club to play in L1 and then the championship then SL was one which did it via franchising, Celtic Crusaders. Opening the door between L1 and the NCL wouldnt see millions pumped in to clubs like Kells and hunslet parkside, keeping the door open between SL and the championship has not seen millions flow in to clubs like fev, leigh, fax, et al. If the door being kept open will attract these millions for clubs like fev, the door is open, where are they? The door.......its only been open 2 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 It's been a Ajar for 4 seasons and open half a season. Yes, 40+ years ago Featherstone were Champions. 24 years ago Featherstone were nowhere near relegation zone but got booted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 59 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Only in the same way that 40+ years.ago Broughton were champions They weren't booted out, they didn't com with. But the door was open. Why, instead of getting these millions that are supposedly on offer, did they go bust? 1977....you mentioned a 40+ year time frame for whatever reason you chose to do so.....in the same way Leeds were Champions in 2017? In the same way that Broughton, whom you randomly mention, were in 1902? We finished 11th out of 16 in the top tier....5 Clubs finished below us that season. To make way for either London Broncos who finished 4th in the 2nd tier that season and a new Club, PSG who lasted all of 2 seasons; you chose which of those we were kicked out of the top flight for. The door has been opening and slamming shut depending on how much money happens to be left in the SL pot and which SL Clubs are going bust ever since. How far do you think the Giant Killers, the mighty Featherstone Rovers can go, this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Taylor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 It won't happen, but after reading this thread I'd love to see us (Fev) get promoted - It would make great entertainment. 2008 RFL Wakefield & District Young Volunteer of the Year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Ruffle a few feathers......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Taylor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, Smudger06 said: Ruffle a few feathers......... We might be on a good run, but Leigh are signing strong and must now be second favourites? There's really not much in the top teams. Interestingly Toulouse have their main players back now, so the game Vs Toronto will be much closer. 2008 RFL Wakefield & District Young Volunteer of the Year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tms Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 18 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Well 40 years ago was 1979. So 1977 is only 40+ years ago in the same way 1902 is. 2017 obviously is less than 40 year ago. It isnt a time frame, Quite literally the last 40+ years includes everything that has ever happened. I'm not sure your pedantry proved what you hoped it would. You were only shut out in the same way Bradford and London were. But the point remains. There was a pathway, the millions needed did not flow in, the pretty much immediately went bust (despite getting more TV money than they did the previous year) The pathway was open last year, where were the millions? Let's be honest here, the debate isnt that keeping that pathway open means that this investment will come in. We both know that investment isnt coming, automatic P+R is solely about the chance a few clubs at the top end of the championship who dont have the money or infrastructure to be SL clubs getting lucky one year and getting a season in the sun. Whilst that is a nice thing, its costing the game as a whole massively how can you compare the two Bradford and London were relegated FEV were demoted big difference at the end of the season Hull and Doncaster were the bottom two and in normal circumstances would have been relegated to the then second division but sky decided rugby league would be more appealing to their viewers if the top league had a team from london and paris in it so FEV along with wakefield salford widnes and the relegated hull were put in the newly formed 1st division and doncaster in the 2nd division hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 4 hours ago, scotchy1 said: Fev and Leigh, with the same owners, when we had an open pathway between SL and the championship, only last year couldn't afford to finish the season Open pathway....... But we did complete the season.......holding the Championship Shield. It's wise to cut your loses when objectives are not met. Live to fight another day. Besides it's known far and wide Fev are that good they have no need of such things as subs and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moove Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, scotchy1 said: Well 40 years ago was 1979. So 1977 is only 40+ years ago in the same way 1902 is. 2017 obviously is less than 40 year ago. Jesus, what on earth has happened to this forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Who said we had millions? We've a damn sight more assets and less debt than a fair few SL Clubs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Scotchy I have to hand it to you. Your combination of intellect, eloquence, arrogance and stubbornness make you the perfect Internet forum villain. Normal people would have retreated after claiming salford city would never be allowed in the football league 3 weeks after they were. I admire your resilience. Can we make it a drinking game where we have to do a shot every time someone says millions or scale? Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Some more facts for you because I can’t stay away. Fev and Leigh put money into their squads at the expense of reserves to compete with SL teams in the 8s. You know because of the uneven funding so they have to compete by cutting back other areas to fund the first team. Once they didn’t make the 8s they trimmed back, good business no? They weren’t allowed to sign players due to the deadline so ended up short due to injuries and releases. That was a product of the system. I watched London win again tonight in a brilliant game. London on a championship budget with small crowds and rent to pay. At least 6 teams in the championship would be better geared up to have a crack yet you don’t want them to. I’m not sure who else you’d rather have a go. Maybe a SL of 5 teams based on scale and millions. I wasn’t too bothered who went up this year but I now really want a ‘heartland’ club to go up and do well. I’m on the side of sport and that game I saw tonight wouldn’t have happened under your preferred model. Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 6 hours ago, scotchy1 said: I haven't said these clubs arent scalable but they arent scalable as they are. Each would need millions invested in them to get them there. They can get crowds and investment and sponsors and everything else but to do so takes time and money and effort and skill they don't have at the moment. If a Hughes or Moran or McManus or Caddick or Argyle want to sit down and come up with a plan and investment of how they get from here to where they need to be they would be welcomed in to SL with open arms. But both you and I know that this debate happens because the people investing in those clubs dont have that plan and there is no Moran or McManus or Argyle or Caddick waiting in the wings. This debate happens because these clubs want to be promoted without that plan and without that investment. So investment prior to promotion is a prerequisite and no team should be allowed to try without it. Got it. Obviously no team can do well without the #millions (forgetting teams like cas of course) or the #scale (London don’t count as their catchment area makes them #scalable and their millionaire owner puts in #afewquid) and of course no team would ever be able to attract additional investment once in SL if they couldn’t in the championship. You don’t know who is waiting where for what. Our sport is pretty tin pot and this fallacy around crowds and millions is a pointless endeavor. We’re at a point where P&R looks like it works and we could get some amazing sporting stories like London now or maybe Toulouse next year, things that are interesting and make for good viewing and memories. Just enjoy the sport, it’s about the only thing RL does well. If you want Chinese markets, bottom lines and 60,000 fans at a game taking selfies you’re probably going to perpetually disappointed. I hate to break it to you but I don’t think rugby league in the UK is scalable so try to enjoy it for what it does well. Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 4 hours ago, Chris Taylor said: We might be on a good run, but Leigh are signing strong and must now be second favourites? There's really not much in the top teams. Interestingly Toulouse have their main players back now, so the game Vs Toronto will be much closer. I think Leigh are the dark horses. It’s making for a very exciting end of season. Shame there’s promotion on the line to spoil the maturity and scalability assessments that need to be carried out to determine a worthy contender to replace Salford, the least worthy of their place. Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 3 hours ago, scotchy1 said: With borrowed players, hardly the actions of a team with the millions necessary to scale their business Teams have won grand finals with borrowed players. Maybe they should be stripped. Fined #millions maybe...? Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Smudger06 said: Who said we had millions? We've a damn sight more assets and less debt than a fair few SL Clubs though. Any club promoted to SL would have #millions mate. Rough estimate would suggest a team like Fev would have turnover of around 4.5-5m if promoted. With minimal outgoings outside of wages due to owning the stadium and opportunities to grow sponsorship etc there is no reason they couldn’t be healthy and competitive. Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 4 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said: Any club promoted to SL would have #millions mate. Rough estimate would suggest a team like Fev would have turnover of around 4.5-5m if promoted. With minimal outgoings outside of wages due to owning the stadium and opportunities to grow sponsorship etc there is no reason they couldn’t be healthy and competitive. No No we can't have opinions like that, they simply do not fit with the dictators uncompromising vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Ok, we will turn down the sky TV money upon promotion to suite your figures. Birthday parties? Good way of describing SL Club training sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Where on earth is an extra £3.7m being magicked up from? If you think that Fev are making £3.7m a year from sponsorship, attendances and renting out POR for birthday parties your heads in the clouds mate. You do realise we had the 1st ever RL Shirt sponsorship and still have them? Who happen to be one of the world's largest packaging companies, in addition to one of the Countries leading house builders. I'm sure they won't significantly increase there investment given weekly national exposure. Of course there won't be up to a thousand extra away fans through the gates at home games. Season Ticket sales won't significantly rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.