Jump to content
Total Rugby League Fans Forum
Sign in to follow this  
DEANO

Champions and relegation

Recommended Posts

The only reason I can see for an end of season play off to determine the champions is because of Magic weekend  making the league unbalanced. Shouldn’t the same theory apply to relegation I.e. have a play off


sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, DEANO said:

The only reason I can see for an end of season play off to determine the champions is because of Magic weekend  making the league unbalanced. Shouldn’t the same theory apply to relegation I.e. have a play off

Oh dear , you just had to didn't you ? 😉

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Maybe 1 up and 1 down AND second from bottom of the Super League plays winners of the Championship playoff (2nd to 5th).

The super 8’s have been disbanded.. Why try and create a similar scenario to something that never worked? 

1 up 1 down is where we are at. Will it change? No. Not this season.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look the problem of our sport is lack of stability, continuity and opportunities for forward planning so suggestions of even more jeopardy makes no sense what so ever!

  • Like 5

  " I ain't no saint and I don't pretend to be,  But I hope you all found a friend in me."   Steve Forbert       

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just saying the league is not fair with a 3rd fixture 

  • Like 1

sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Just saying the league is not fair with a 3rd fixture 

Mostly just agreeing as well.

 

  • Like 1

  " I ain't no saint and I don't pretend to be,  But I hope you all found a friend in me."   Steve Forbert       

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, DEANO said:

The only reason I can see for an end of season play off to determine the champions is because of Magic weekend  making the league unbalanced. Shouldn’t the same theory apply to relegation I.e. have a play off

 

3 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Just saying the league is not fair with a 3rd fixture 

I have always thought that there is no need to pick the opposing teams before the season starts in both the Magic and Bash weekends, do it from a couple of weekends prior and have 1 v 2, 3 v 4 and so on, that would be the fairest way to arrange the fixtures, the only stumbling block with that is with speccies wanting to "stay over" and arranging the day,  but the way to try to get round that is to play it accessible in say Manchester or West Yorkshire.

 But yes totally agree the imbalance in fixtures should demand a play off for the bottom clubs and relegation, if it is deemed necessary to find the champion club.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

I have always thought that there is no need to pick the opposing teams before the season starts in both the Magic and Bash weekends, do it from a couple of weekends prior and have 1 v 2, 3 v 4 and so on, that would be the fairest way to arrange the fixtures, the only stumbling block with that is with speccies wanting to "stay over" and arranging the day,  but the way to try to get round that is to play it accessible in say Manchester or West Yorkshire.

 

Why stop there,share it between Headingley and the DW and call it the not so magic day out !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, DEANO said:

The only reason I can see for an end of season play off to determine the champions is because of Magic weekend  making the league unbalanced. Shouldn’t the same theory apply to relegation I.e. have a play off

The only reason? There are six extra loop fixtures you may have overlooked.

  • Like 4

rldfsignature.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, DEANO said:

Just saying the league is not fair with a 3rd fixture 

All clubs know what they have to do. Perfectly fair, now if they didn't tell someone what they have to do that would be unfair.

  • Like 1

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Padge said:

All clubs know what they have to do. Perfectly fair, now if they didn't tell someone what they have to do that would be unfair.

well yes it is clear what the rules are, but it is still unbalanced and to me unfair if they don't all play the same teams home and away... that is similar fixture lists for all.

Otherwise their is an element of unfairness if one team is playing the better teams more often and away from home for example. I have no idea which teams have had the advantage of better fixtures due to the loop fixtures plus magic, but it isn't an even playing field.   Same applies to the top five positions.

Yes, all teams know no matter what the fixture balance is that they are relegated if finish bottom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, redjonn said:

 

Yes, all teams know no matter what the fixture balance is that they are relegated if finish bottom.

So they know what to do and it is therefore.fair.

Your logic says the challenge cup is unfair because some get an easy draw and some don't.


Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Padge said:

So they know what to do and it is therefore.fair.

Your logic says the challenge cup is unfair because some get an easy draw and some don't.

I assume you mean Leeds.


rldfsignature.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

I assume you mean Leeds.

Obviously 😁

  • Haha 1

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The logic I’m using is if they need a play off to determine the champions surely the same logic should apply to relegation 

  • Like 1

sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, DEANO said:

The logic I’m using is if they need a play off to determine the champions surely the same logic should apply to relegation 

Off course that is logically the only fair method of determining who should be relegated, but even then being on the "wrong" side of the 7 extra fixtures could determine if a club would end up in the relegation play off's or not and this season that could easily be decided by points difference, just the same on the opposite side of the table that a team with a "favourable" 7 extra fixtures could sneak into the top 5 and who know's do a Leeds from 5th position!

Edited by Harry Stottle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite simple then. Have enough teams to play each other home and away. Scrap the magic weekend. Top of the league are true champions. Bottom team relegated. Simples

  • Like 1

sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Padge said:

So they know what to do and it is therefore.fair.

Your logic says the challenge cup is unfair because some get an easy draw and some don't.

nope it doesn't, the cup is a drawn affair,,, pot luck.

The  league table is not that... its a merit table based upon playing all teams equally - or should be

It is fair that they all know what to do... but it ain't fair as they play different teams more or less times. The consequences of relegation are far higher than being knocked out the cup., hence its more important to have a level playing field, which it is not because of the loop fixtures.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In May 1976 the very first edition of "Open Rugby" magazine was published (see bottom of this post) and which has since become "Rugby League World". The league structure at that time was two divisions and with the team finishing at the top of Division 1 being named as RL Champions. At the end of the league season there was then a separate play-off competition for the top 8 teams (the Premiership trophy) which concluded in a final which, even if not up to today's standard, was televised live and with all the hype of a major final and given national exposure. However, the full season's efforts of the team who had a few weeks earlier been crowned champions were largely unknown outside the RL fraternity.

Therefore, in that first edition of "Open Rugby" there was an article which promoted the claim for the team who had finished top of the league to be given more credit for their achievements rather than the team who just won an end-of-season play-off.

Yes, these days the publicity does now go to the team who are named as Champions but the title is now just decided on who is on form for a few end of season matches rather than of being consistent throughout the entire season, while the team who finished top of the league are again unknown outside the world of Rugby League - and I suspect even many RL supporters would struggle to name the winners of the League Leaders trophy for the past few years.

I well understood that when the league structure was just one division - yes, many years ago - and teams didn't play everyone else that a play-off was a reasonable way to decide the champions but I do think that when all the competing teams have played each other then the top of the league should be champions. It would appear more than unfair if a team won every one of their league games, plus all their qualifying play-off matches and were then not crowned as the best team if they lost by a golden point in the final.

I know an end-of-season final is an attraction - for Sky TV at least - and with the appeal of the Challenge Cup now having been so devalued, would it not be possible to still give the title of Champions to those who topped the league and then play the Challenge Cup as an end-of-season play-off.

OK, there wouldn't be time to accommodate every team in the three divisions but with 1985 Cup now for the lower teams, they could use that as their end-of-season play-off while maybe the top 16 clubs (ie 12 in Super League and those who finish in the top 4 of the Championship) play for the Challenge Cup and with a double-headed finals' day - and not necessarily at Wembley.

I well understand there will be reasons why this might not be possible, but if ideas are not put forward then a potential good one might never come to the fore .... such as in that first edition of "Open Rugby" 43 years ago.

Open-Rugby-1-Cover.jpg.d2ce2d04efef872302c7b50c72fd4b14.jpg

Edited by RL does what Sky says
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Padge said:

All clubs know what they have to do. Perfectly fair, now if they didn't tell someone what they have to do that would be unfair.

You mean like ' Licencing ' ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RL does what Sky says said:

In May 1976 the very first edition of "Open Rugby" magazine was published (see bottom of this post) and which has since become "Rugby League World". The league structure at that time was two divisions and with the team finishing at the top of Division 1 being named as RL Champions. At the end of the league season there was then a separate play-off competition for the top 8 teams (the Premiership trophy) which concluded in a final which, even if not up to today's standard, was televised live and with all the hype of a major final and given national exposure. However, the full season's efforts of the team who had a few weeks earlier been crowned champions were largely unknown outside the RL fraternity.

Therefore, in that first edition of "Open Rugby" there was an article which promoted the claim for the team who had finished top of the league to be given more credit for their achievements rather than the team who just won an end-of-season play-off.

Yes, these days the publicity does now go to the team who are named as Champions but the title is now just decided on who is on form for a few end of season matches rather than of being consistent throughout the entire season, while the team who finished top of the league are again unknown outside the world of Rugby League - and I suspect even many RL supporters would struggle to name the winners of the League Leaders trophy for the past few years.

I well understood that when the league structure was just one division - yes, many years ago - and teams didn't play everyone else that a play-off was a reasonable way to decide the champions but I do think that when all the competing teams have played each other then the top of the league should be champions. It would appear more than unfair if a team won every one of their league games, plus all their qualifying play-off matches and were then not crowned as the best team if they lost by a golden point in the final.

I know an end-of-season final is an attraction - for Sky TV at least - and with the appeal of the Challenge Cup now having been so devalued, would it not be possible to still give the title of Champions to those who topped the league and then play the Challenge Cup as an end-of-season play-off.

OK, there wouldn't be time to accommodate every team in the three divisions but with 1985 Cup now for the lower teams, they could use that as their end-of-season play-off while maybe the top 16 clubs (ie 12 in Super League and those who finish in the top 4 of the Championship) play for the Challenge Cup and with a double-headed finals' day - and not necessarily at Wembley.

I well understand there will be reasons why this might not be possible, but if ideas are not put forward then a potential good one might never come to the fore .... such as in that first edition of "Open Rugby" 43 years ago.

Open-Rugby-1-Cover.jpg.d2ce2d04efef872302c7b50c72fd4b14.jpg

Further to that the team that finished top had to overcome the changing weather patterns and pitch conditions of a 9 month season starting in August and finishing in April so could truly be regarded as a Champion team😎

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...