Curly perm Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Yeah, it’s not doing SL any good but Bennett’s just being honest. If SL was even remotely near the standard of NRL, Elstone might have a point...but it’s way off being able to rival it as a competition. Our forwards are generally good enough to play in the NRL but they don’t have to play at their peak every week in SL. Bateman/Whitehead/Sutton are playing at the top level (and doing well) and should be considered ahead of Currie, Hughes etc in my opinion. Bateman’s already said he was in his comfort zone in SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost crayfish Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 I agree to some extent with Elstone's thoughts on Bennett's comment, but I strongly disagree with him going public about it! Reactionary and petty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southwalesrabbitoh Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 NH RL is like S American soccer IMO. Imagine L Messi staying in S America, like J Peacock did by staying up here, hahahahahaha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBone Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 in reply to lowdesert... (forgot to get the quote in) I agree, the fact is there isn’t enough money coming into the game and that is unlikely yo change in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluded pom? Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 6 hours ago, Curly perm said: Yeah, it’s not doing SL any good but Bennett’s just being honest. If SL was even remotely near the standard of NRL, Elstone might have a point...but it’s way off being able to rival it as a competition. Our forwards are generally good enough to play in the NRL but they don’t have to play at their peak every week in SL. Bateman/Whitehead/Sutton are playing at the top level (and doing well) and should be considered ahead of Currie, Hughes etc in my opinion. Bateman’s already said he was in his comfort zone in SL. It’s not about SL v NRL though. It’s about individual players. Would Bennett have selected Graham or S Burgess if they hadn’t gone to Australia but other, lesser players in the same positions had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 I'm so glad that the two things I was thinking have come up on here SL players are the finished article the NRL wants And Bennet wants a target so Pinch of salt everyone? 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 10 hours ago, deluded pom? said: But were still selected purely because Bennett thought they were better than anyone running around in SL. Purely on the basis that they were playing in the NRL and so they must be better than those running about in Super League. It makes things nice and easy for him and I highly doubt he even watches that many Super League games to form much of an opinion about some of the lesser known players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 16 hours ago, deluded pom? said: They'll still keep peddling the myth that it was the coaching he received in Australia that made him the player they think he is. Based on Canberra's performances over the last few years it is more the Super League players making Ricky Stuart look like a better coach than him coaching them to be better players. He has openly said that their winning attitude is refreshing which, on reflection, is a pretty poor reflection on the culture he had built. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Damien said: Purely on the basis that they were playing in the NRL and so they must be better than those running about in Super League. It makes things nice and easy for him and I highly doubt he even watches that many Super League games to form much of an opinion about some of the lesser known players. I thought he had ex players giving him updates on a weekly basis on English international and potential English international players, but i could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moove Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, The Future is League said: I thought he had ex players giving him updates on a weekly basis on English international and potential English international players, but i could be wrong. Hopefully not the same ex players who are dishing out the MoS points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjonn Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 mmm seems its OK for Bennett to publicly speak out, but not for Elstone to publicly comment or respond. Is their some sort of bias against Elstone... Elstone is head of SL and wants to ensure SL can attract sponsors or improved broadcasting/media so he should comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatmichaelsays Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 24 minutes ago, redjonn said: mmm seems its OK for Bennett to publicly speak out, but not for Elstone to publicly comment or respond. Is their some sort of bias against Elstone... Elstone has taken a pretty innocuous and not unreasonable comment from Bennett and turned it into yet another story of RL arguing with itself. Let's be frank here, for all of the bluster about how much better Elstone and certain club chairmen could do when compared to Red Hall, I'm struggling to see what Elstone has achieved aside from pinching some rule changes from the NRL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 As always with these things, context is the key. Is Ryan Sutton a better player now than he was last year? Clearly no because improvement doesn't come that quickly. Will he benefit from playing in a better competition that provides more consistent quality on a week by week basis? Yes, and that will do his international chances no harm. But we see from international games that the best players are the best players and that is irrespective of which competition they are sourced from. Sam Burgess (NRL) is a quality forward and would be in the England setup irrespective of which competition he is in and the same is true of James Roby (Super League). What I don't want to see is players being selected for England just because they are in the NRL. My view is that we have already seen this with Josh Hodgson who is behind James Roby as a hooker in my opinion but seems first choice when available because of his NRL career. I accept that some people may see Hodgson as better than Roby but it is more clear cut with Ryan Sutton. He is not a better player than prop forwards playing in Super League and on current ability should not be selected ahead of them. He would do a job for England of course but the likes of Walmsley, Thompson and Watts are simply better players than him. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Some weird statements on here based one Bennett comment. Not every UK player has improved going to the NRL but a lot have. It isn’t just down to the coaching but many other things combined. It would be interesting to hear what SB, James Graham, Elliott Whitehead had to say versus our experts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Its been funny to watch the RL journo group think about this morph in to the idea that Wayne Bennetts only concern is the England/GB side and not to bang the drum for the English game. I wonder if they would have taken the same stance had Elstone decided that players wouldn't be released for GB or England train-on squads and get togethers because his sole priority is Super League and not the England/GB national side? The idea that the England coach doesn't have a duty to the English game is laughable, the RL journo community is really struggling at the moment, you can see how much they were basically spoon fed by the RFL Exactly. Coach of the National side + GB. Nothing do do with SL. TV companies must read overreactions like this and laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 53 minutes ago, Lowdesert said: Some weird statements on here based one Bennett comment. Not every UK player has improved going to the NRL but a lot have. It isn’t just down to the coaching but many other things combined. It would be interesting to hear what SB, James Graham, Elliott Whitehead had to say versus our experts. I don't think anybody on here is saying that Sutton will not improve during his time in the NRL, it is more about the language that Bennett used. To say that he wouldn't have seen the potential that Sutton had in the Super League implies that he doesn't keep as close an eye on the UK game as you would expect for the England/GB coach. The bottom line is I want Bennett to pick the best team possible and it is difficult to do that if he is not aware of all the talent available. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wirral Warrior Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Not that he is ever going to admit it, but Bennett is out of order with his comment that Sutton would not have been spotted unless he was playing in NRL. Thats's a poor reflection on his, or UK based scouting/coaching team, awareness of Super League talent. Sutton had been playing for Wigan for 5 seasons winning 2 Grand Finals and a WCC and had been steadily improving. Lazy analysis by Bennett. Elstone spot on to call him out. We would be calling him out if as Chief ExecSL he wasn't vocal in supporting SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 13 hours ago, ghost crayfish said: I agree to some extent with Elstone's thoughts on Bennett's comment, but I strongly disagree with him going public about it! Reactionary and petty. Yes ... and so was Mr Sadlers response as well. It's a pity some journalists were more realistic about our game. It would be nice if all our weaknesses would be brushed under the table but Bennett's comments should be used as a warning not a winge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 9 hours ago, Dunbar said: I don't think anybody on here is saying that Sutton will not improve during his time in the NRL, it is more about the language that Bennett used. To say that he wouldn't have seen the potential that Sutton had in the Super League implies that he doesn't keep as close an eye on the UK game as you would expect for the England/GB coach. The bottom line is I want Bennett to pick the best team possible and it is difficult to do that if he is not aware of all the talent available. How do you deduce he isn’t? Another assumption. Do you think these top line coaches don’t keep track of the game in either hemisphere? Even the Wigan media are reporting it’s a storm in a teacup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, Lowdesert said: How do you deduce he isn’t? Another assumption. Do you think these top line coaches don’t keep track of the game in either hemisphere? Even the Wigan media are reporting it’s a storm in a teacup. I'm not saying he isn't keeping track, I'm saying that his language implies he isn't which is why people took exception to it. I'm just reacting to what he said, I don't know what his actual actions are. It may have just been lazy wording on his part but I am saying I understand why people took exception to it... including Elstone. The reaction may also have been over the top as well though. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denton Rovers RLFC Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 I still don't think WB is the man for the job, he failed at the last WC to not only pick the strongest squad available and playing players that were inferior but messed up badly with regards to certain personnel in certain positions which ultimately cost us the world cup. His comments make me want to punch the old fart in the face, he has no media savvy whatsoever and does more damage than good overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latchford albion Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 15 hours ago, The Future is League said: I thought he had ex players giving him updates on a weekly basis on English international and potential English international players, but i could be wrong. Chatting with one of these ex player advisers at the Capital Challenge about Tommy Makinson, he made it very clear that WB hadn't even heard of him before the Denver test. "I'm a traditionalist and I don"t think you'd ever see me coaching an Australian national side!" Lee Radford, RLW March 2016 Proud to be a member of the TRL woke claque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluded pom? Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 9 hours ago, latchford albion said: Chatting with one of these ex player advisers at the Capital Challenge about Tommy Makinson, he made it very clear that WB hadn't even heard of him before the Denver test. If true I find that basically confirms to me that Bennett would select a full England squad from the NRL, if there were enough playing there, regardless of any player in SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, deluded pom? said: If true I find that basically confirms to me that Bennett would select a full England squad from the NRL, if there were enough playing there, regardless of any player in SL. I think in that instance it is true. I seem to remember his saying ‘where have we been hiding him’ a couple of years ago in an interview. Or words to that effect. Imo he should be picking the best. I think he has done that, with the only issue being Batemans selection in the centre. Seems he was a good judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluded pom? Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, Lowdesert said: I think in that instance it is true. I seem to remember his saying ‘where have we been hiding him’ a couple of years ago in an interview. Or words to that effect. Imo he should be picking the best. I think he has done that, with the only issue being Batemans selection in the centre. Seems he was a good judge. Wayne Bennett has forgotten more about RL than many of us will ever know but to not have heard of TM prior to the Denver Test I find incredulous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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