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scotchy1

What do you want the international game to look like?

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I love international RL, I think it is the best 'hook' we could hope for to create new fans. I think its obvious that we need more and more international RL. Obviously there are problems and hurdles to it that we need to address but even to the point of being a loss leader, International RL is absolutely vital in the growth of the game. 

For me, I think that we need a proper 9s circuit, even if it isn't that absolute best players, there are enough quality players to create a circuit people would enjoy watching. Even if you took out the GB players, young players like Jack Walker, Morgan Knowles, Darnell Mcintosh, Joe Burgess would be exciting to watch. Id like to see us have 3 9s comps per year. 1 SL + invited sides comp pre-season somewhere warm. 1 NH international comp mid-season, and 1 post season 9s world cup. I know some have a weird aversion to 9s but they don't need to watch. It will give us a couple of events to sell, eventually make a bit of money and act as a brilliant development tool and reward for the great work people are doing in places like the Baltics, Jamaica/usa/Canada etc. 

Id like to see us have mid-season internationals. I think it is integral that we do so. Right now the international game exists for about a month, people don't have the time or opportunity to build an affiliation. We actively make it difficult to be an RL fan, especially an international RL fan. If someone sat at home and watched the NZ series and liked it, they wont have an opportunity for 2 years to go to a game or watch it again. We need about 10 games a year minimum and that's what we should aim for. Its also true that the more games we play, the more players will stick with those nations rather than treat them as a stepping stone. Cross-Hemisphere internationals are obviously difficult to organise and we need to build the NH sides. Id like to see a 'nations league' type format with the NH nations organised in to groups of 4. England, Wales, France Ireland division 1,  Scotland, Italy, USA, Jamaica division 2, etc. Play 3 rounds as Magic type events in the 3 'other' nations in Div 1 and a final in the heartlands. Play that every year and build it in to an event. So February, France v Ireland, Scotland v Italy Day1 England v Wales and USA v Jamaica Day 2 in Cardiff. May France v Wales, Scotland v USA Day 1, England v Ireland, Italy v Jamaica Day 2 in Dublin, August Ireland v Wales, Scotland v Jamaica Day 1, England v France, USA v Italy day 2 Montpellier. October Top 2 Div 2 final winner promoted to Div 1, bottom 2 Div 1 play-off loser is relegated to div 2 and Top 2 div 1 final winner is the champion, bottom 2 div 2 loser relegated to div 3 in say Manchester/Leeds/Newcastle etc. That should be held every year. Do similar with the SH as well. So Tonga, Australia, NZ, Fiji Div 1, PNG, Samoa, Lebanon, Cooks Div 2 etc.

For the cross hemisphere games id like to see us on a rolling 8 year cycle. Year 1 World Cup NH, year 2 tri-nations SH, year 3 nations league final, top 4 from each nations league split in to two groups of 4 with semis and final NH, year 4 Europe v Pacifika 'Ryder Cup' comp to give Australia their year off SH. Year 5 World cup SH, year 6 Tri-nations NH, year 7 nations league final SH year 8 Europe v Pacifika NH, year 9 WC NH and keep repeating that pattern. 

I think if we could get that in place it would give us an international game people could really get behind, it would have a good mix between real elite competitions and including the 2nd tier nations, it would give everyone something to build towards and a real, compelling product to sell to TV companies and fans. 

Other than the obvious immediate necessity of "some games" what would you like to see in international RL?

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Euro ladder would be ideal, groups of three - play initially two and move to four games (H&A) if success. Criteria required to move up the ladder i.e. local comp, limits on heritage players. Keeps it meaningful and aspirational

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The four nations should be yearly alternating hemispheres

Wales to play every European one and Tonga in the Southern 

And I do mean yearly--even if there is a world cup then schedule them to happen intelligently. BBC coverage at the same time each year and the non RL public then get an expectation of it eventually

Of course the NRL will never allow this as we know

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Even if the Ausdies/NZ don't send all there stars that might be good for expansion

It would mean we'd have a better chance of winning

Obviously as league fans we'd want the best to come out over but the non RL will only care about the win as long as the games are good

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I just want an international calendar that doesn’t seem like we are making it up as we go along.

That way broadcasters and fans could plan long term to support the international game.

I’d like to see something devised that could then gain in prestige over a period of time rather than the endless chopping and changing.

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13 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I just want an international calendar that doesn’t seem like we are making it up as we go along.

That way broadcasters and fans could plan long term to support the international game.

I’d like to see something devised that could then gain in prestige over a period of time rather than the endless chopping and changing.

I absolutely agree with this, I think the last minute nature of everything we do makes it so much harder to sell to broadcasters and probably less valuable to them. 

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I have no problems with having a world cup, tri/4 nations for the tier 1 nations, European and Pacific Championships and Emerging Nations tournaments.

These elements have been tried and they work... we just need to stick with them. I am a big believer in teams playing their equivalents in ability, I don't think blowout scores do a lot for the sport.

Because the two primary seasons North and South are concurrent these days I think tours are difficult so I would stick with nations competitions.

I am not a fan of 9's as a vehicle for promotion. I hear people talking of 7's rugby or 20/20 cricket as equivalents but these two are very different to the full format game. For me 13 aside rugby is fast paced, exciting and skilful enough to not need a variant to showcase it... simply put I don't see anything in 9's that I can't see in proper Rugby League. 

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40 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

The four nations should be yearly alternating hemispheres

Wales to play every European one and Tonga in the Southern 

 BBC coverage at the same time each year and the non RL public then get an expectation of it eventually

This post hits the nail on the head. We created a brilliant tournament with the Four Nations, that was a massive success. Why the hell haven’t we continued with this successful format?

42k at Wembley, 36k at Olympic Stadium, 40k at Anfield, 48k at Suncorp 

Edited by Sir Kevin Sinfield
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22 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I absolutely agree with this, I think the last minute nature of everything we do makes it so much harder to sell to broadcasters and probably less valuable to them. 

Tricky to see what the real block is. Received wisdom seems to be it's the NRL

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7 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I have no problems with having a world cup, tri/4 nations for the tier 1 nations, European and Pacific Championships and Emerging Nations tournaments.

These elements have been tried and they work... we just need to stick with them. I am a big believer in teams playing their equivalents in ability, I don't think blowout scores do a lot for the sport.

Because the two primary seasons North and South are concurrent these days I think tours are difficult so I would stick with nations competitions.

I am not a fan of 9's as a vehicle for promotion. I hear people talking of 7's rugby or 20/20 cricket as equivalents but these two are very different to the full format game. For me 13 aside rugby is fast paced, exciting and skilful enough to not need a variant to showcase it... simply put I don't see anything in 9's that I can't see in proper Rugby League. 

The end result of two of your points is that tier 2 and 3 nations are stuck there. They can't play 13's because they will be blown away and we wont play 9's. 

You don't see anything in 20/20 or 7s that you don't see in the full versions of those games, what you do see is certain aspects more often.  Its shorter, faster, more accessible. More people can play, it doesn't ask for as much commitment and it doesn't matter if you get blown away. 

There are still people in cricket and RU who say the same thing as you about 20/20 and 7s. But as much as these people still see 15's and test cricket as the pinnacle of their game, there are many people who will watch 7s and 20/20 who wouldn't dream of watching a test or 15s 

and an under-appreciated point regarding 9s is its relationship to participation. People can commit to a weekend here and there whilst they may not be able to commit to an entire season of 13s. The pro game needs to act as that light to give people another option to stay involved in the game. 

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Every RL playing nation should have a guaranteed mininum of four internationals a year, from tiny Vanuatu and Nuie through to the Tier 1 big boys. 

Put in place a structure to enable it, and stick with it and help fund it. 

 

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6 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The end result of two of your points is that tier 2 and 3 nations are stuck there. They can't play 13's because they will be blown away and we wont play 9's. 

You don't see anything in 20/20 or 7s that you don't see in the full versions of those games, what you do see is certain aspects more often.  Its shorter, faster, more accessible. More people can play, it doesn't ask for as much commitment and it doesn't matter if you get blown away. 

There are still people in cricket and RU who say the same thing as you about 20/20 and 7s. But as much as these people still see 15's and test cricket as the pinnacle of their game, there are many people who will watch 7s and 20/20 who wouldn't dream of watching a test or 15s 

and an under-appreciated point regarding 9s is its relationship to participation. People can commit to a weekend here and there whilst they may not be able to commit to an entire season of 13s. The pro game needs to act as that light to give people another option to stay involved in the game. 

You make some fair points and maybe there is a place for 9's in emerging nations RL.

But you asked the question what do you want the international game to look like and my answer is that we see so little international Rugby League that when we do get a chance we should play the actual sport.

The thing about 20/20 cricket and 7's Rugby Union is that fans don't have to wait two years to watch their national team play a home test match in the full version of the sport.

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14 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The end result of two of your points is that tier 2 and 3 nations are stuck there. They can't play 13's because they will be blown away and we wont play 9's. 

You don't see anything in 20/20 or 7s that you don't see in the full versions of those games, what you do see is certain aspects more often.  Its shorter, faster, more accessible. More people can play, it doesn't ask for as much commitment and it doesn't matter if you get blown away. 

There are still people in cricket and RU who say the same thing as you about 20/20 and 7s. But as much as these people still see 15's and test cricket as the pinnacle of their game, there are many people who will watch 7s and 20/20 who wouldn't dream of watching a test or 15s 

and an under-appreciated point regarding 9s is its relationship to participation. People can commit to a weekend here and there whilst they may not be able to commit to an entire season of 13s. The pro game needs to act as that light to give people another option to stay involved in the game. 

Yep.... I will no longer play a full 50 over game of cricket as its a whole day but a midweek 16 - 8 ball over game is great fun

Offer me a 9s midweek game of veterans league and I'd drop my weekend union club tommorow.... No chance of that down here of course but... 

Edited by Bedfordshire Bronco

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2 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

You make some fair points and maybe there is a place for 9's in emerging nations RL.

But you asked the question what do you want the international game to look like and my answer is that we see so little international Rugby League that when we do get a chance we should play the actual sport.

The thing about 20/20 cricket and 7's Rugby Union is that fans don't have to wait two years to watch their national team play a home test match in the full version of the sport.

Absolutely, I wouldn't want 9s to replace any 13's it should complement not replace. I think its incredibly disappointing that the NRL pushed the 9s world cup as an alternative to the secondary international comp. (also playing the version once every four years is the dumbest thing I can imagine)

But there are plenty of players who wont play international competition this year, the England 9s side shouldn't be the same players as the 13s. We could put out a squad of say Jack Walker, Harry Newman, Joe Burgess, Adam Swift, Darnell Macintosh, Morgan Knowles, Danny Richardson, Morgan Smithies, Joe Philbin, Dec Patton, Jack Hughes etc. Players who fans know, are exciting to watch but probably wont be playing for GB/England 

You could probably scrape together a decent Australian or NZ squad of players in SL, probably an exciting Tongan one aswell with the likes of Hurrell, Lolohea, BMM, Lolohea, Langi. You could probably get a Samoan one, a PNG one. 

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I'd like to see GB play permanently, because I think that's the best way of encouraging players from Scotland and Wales to play RL. If we had that, we could go to Scottish and Welsh RU international players and offer them something worth switching codes for.

If we do manage to get some decent players from those countries either switching from RU, or being developed, then there's no reason why we couldn't look at creating a tournament between England, Wales, Scotland, etc. But you can't do it with England while we're a million miles ahead of the rest. It's just pointless.

This isn't an anti-England thing - I support England at football, RU, cricket, etc. and in those sports I would never advocate a merger, because there's no need. In those sports, the other UK nations (plus Ireland) are of a standard that means you can have matches that are competitive and attract interest from the public. But until we reach that level in RL, I personally think that it makes more sense to make GB your primary team, not England.

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5 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

The four nations should be yearly alternating hemispheres

Wales to play every European one and Tonga in the Southern 

And I do mean yearly--even if there is a world cup then schedule them to happen intelligently. BBC coverage at the same time each year and the non RL public then get an expectation of it eventually

Of course the NRL will never allow this as we know

I don’t agree that Wales and Tonga are nailed on every season for a 4N. Let them qualify. Qualifiers also mean competitive games for not just Wales and Tonga but other nations too.


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What is shouldn't look like is the total ####### that emerged today where you have International RL nuts like me scratching around for VPNs to try and catch a glimpse of a full day of amazing test matches. People like me who would actually pay money to watch a stream if it was done properly! 

Nigel Wood stood at Leichardt Oval today like some kind of bloody competition winner while no one from outside Aus and NZ could watch anything. What a ####### joker!! 

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It is very disappointing to know that International Rugby League matches are taking place and having no way to watch them! 

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The 4 nations was great. It gave a chance to the best smaller nations and it made the smaller nations play each other with the winner getting the chance to play with the big boys.

 

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2 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

It is very disappointing to know that International Rugby League matches are taking place and having no way to watch them! 

This is a guy who sold 8-years of World Cups to Premier Sports FFS! And before you say NRL etc. this was the launch of the RLIF Oceana Cup - it was their job to get coverage.

Edited by Scubby

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I just want it to look clear and consistent, with a clear route to the top for lower teams and a consistent fixture list so we know when and how many games take place.

Until we have that, we just have the equivalent of some random friendly tournaments played whenever both teams can be bothered to play a fixture.

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1 hour ago, deluded pom? said:

I don’t agree that Wales and Tonga are nailed on every season for a 4N. Let them qualify. Qualifiers also mean competitive games for not just Wales and Tonga but other nations too.

And Wales over France? Crazy.

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In a Fantasy World I wouldnt mind seeing something like the following:-

EUROPE

EUROPE A : England, Wales, France, Italy, Russia (2 Home & 2 Away  over 2 Year Period, Bottom Nation Relegated

EUROPE B : Spain, Serbia, Greece, Ireland, Scotland (2 Home & 2 Away over 2 Year Period. Top Nation Promoted & Bottom Relegated.

EUROPE C : Norway, Germany, Ukraine, Czech Rep, Netherlands (2 Home & 2 Away over 2 Year Period. Top Nation Promoted & Bottom Relegated.

EUROPE D : Turkey, Malta, Lebanon (Hopefully they can sort the problems out!), (Play each other home & Away over 2 year Period. Top Nation Promoted depending on meeting off field standards

NORTH AMERICAS

USA v Canada v Jamaica (Each Year One Nation Hosts the other 2 Nations. The Next year Host Nation Changes)

AUSTRALASIA

AUSTRALASIA A

Australia, NZ, Tonga ( 2 Games a Year, Bottom Nation Relegated)

AUSTRALASIA B

PNG, Samoa, Fiji, Cook Islands ( 2 Nations play off for the Final to see who gets Promoted)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One Year England play Australia in a Series the next NZ and then 2 years off with WC Qualis and WC etc

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I know League is played i places like South America (They do a great job organizing things)Thailand, Philipines, Japan, Vanuatu, Poland etc but I have just done the main Nations that have Memeberships of the RLIF/RLEF in Europe, Australasia and North America

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How about simply helping new nations out.

With anything.

Ever.


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Year 1 World Cup 

Year 2 England v France (as part of the European Championship) in summer, GB tour of SH (including Ashes series) in autumn

Year 3 France v England in summer, GB v New Zealand, Fiji, Tonga in autumn

Year 4 France v England in summer, GB v Australia Ashes in autumn

Repeat

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