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scotchy1

What do you want the international game to look like?

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What do you want the international game to look like?

 

Like more than an afterthought after everyone's excuses to say why it can't be done would be step one.

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“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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3 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Year 1 World Cup 

Year 2 England v France (as part of the European Championship) in summer, GB tour of SH (including Ashes series) in autumn

Year 3 France v England in summer, GB v New Zealand, Fiji, Tonga in autumn

Year 4 France v England in summer, GB v Australia Ashes in autumn

Repeat

So aside from the WC it’s all about a handful of teams in your world?


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As a start I want crowds greater than 10k for internationals not involving the big 3, played outside of the big 3.

We will know we are on the right path when this starts to happen at least half a dozen times a year.

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1 hour ago, deluded pom? said:

So aside from the WC it’s all about a handful of teams in your world?

No! Didn’t realise I had to suggest a full global calendar!!

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11 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

No! Didn’t realise I had to suggest a full global calendar!!

You didn’t have to only mention the usual suspects either.


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The key for me is to convince the Aussies to play origin in a two week block. Then opening up a window for mid season internationals each year. 

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33 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

The key for me is to convince the Aussies to play origin in a two week block. Then opening up a window for mid season internationals each year. 

You need to convince the SL clubs to have any sort of international window. Given they now run they're own show, and the previous comments from certain quarters about preferring club matches to internationals, that could be an even harder sell. 

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I would love to see an international calendar where everyone plays a minimum of 6 games every year.

I would love to see this achieved by making all State of Origin weekends stand alone and having 3 mid season internationals to be played on these weekends. The mid season matches should be used for Pacific Cup and European Cup matches with promotion and relegation to give all teams a chance to get matches at their level i.e Group A - England, France, Wales, Ireland. Group B - Italy, Serbia, Scotland, Greece etc...

I would also like to see at least 3 more internationals at the end of the season and a proper, easy to follow cycle. I would like to see a return to the Confederations Cup idea every 4 years in the middle of the World Cup cycle with the Top 8 teams them a Confederations Cup B with the next 8. Then every 2 years the Northern and Southern hemisphere teams alternate between touring e.g:

World Cup

Southern Hemisphere Tours

Confederations Cup

Northern Hemisphere Tours

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17 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

I'd like to see GB play permanently, because I think that's the best way of encouraging players from Scotland and Wales to play RL. If we had that, we could go to Scottish and Welsh RU international players and offer them something worth switching codes for.

If we do manage to get some decent players from those countries either switching from RU, or being developed, then there's no reason why we couldn't look at creating a tournament between England, Wales, Scotland, etc. But you can't do it with England while we're a million miles ahead of the rest. It's just pointless.

This isn't an anti-England thing - I support England at football, RU, cricket, etc. and in those sports I would never advocate a merger, because there's no need. In those sports, the other UK nations (plus Ireland) are of a standard that means you can have matches that are competitive and attract interest from the public. But until we reach that level in RL, I personally think that it makes more sense to make GB your primary team, not England.

I grew up with GB(&I?) vs Australia ashes test series in the 1990s and they were a great thing to look forward too.

But I just don’t see how playing continually in that guise can ever be linked with developing the other countries in the Northern Hemisphere of RL.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I grew up with GB(&I?) vs Australia ashes test series in the 1990s and they were a great thing to look forward too.

But I just don’t see how playing continually in that guise can ever be linked with developing the other countries in the Northern Hemisphere of RL.

It’s quite simple, really.

Imagine you’re Regan Grace.

You could play for Wales in the European Championship & the World Cup and for Great Britain in Ashes series and Kiwi/Pacific tours.

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13 hours ago, Scubby said:

What is shouldn't look like is the total ####### that emerged today where you have International RL nuts like me scratching around for VPNs to try and catch a glimpse of a full day of amazing test matches. People like me who would actually pay money to watch a stream if it was done properly! 

Nigel Wood stood at Leichardt Oval today like some kind of bloody competition winner while no one from outside Aus and NZ could watch anything. What a ####### joker!! 

How has Nigel Wood ended up in charge?

We gave him a massive pay off to get him out of the game, only to bring in Ralph Rimmer.

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1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

It’s quite simple, really.

Imagine you’re Regan Grace.

You could play for Wales in the European Championship & the World Cup and for Great Britain in Ashes series and Kiwi/Pacific tours.

Sorry, you’ve not clearly explained how that set up helps develop the Northern Hemisphere nations?

 

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8 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Sorry, you’ve not clearly explained how that set up helps develop the Northern Hemisphere nations?

 

I think the argument is that if we have games for the likes of Wales v England france et al and games for GB against Australia and NZ, grace could play for wales and still play against the tier 1 nations and wouldn't need to declare for England to do so as is now. 

The problem with that is that Wales don't really play enough games to make that worth while, we would be left switching between GB and the nations for world cups so we don't really solve the problem. It also poses the question what about he NH nations that aren't in Britain? 

GB is currently a solution in search of a problem.

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5 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I think the argument is that if we have games for the likes of Wales v England france et al and games for GB against Australia and NZ, grace could play for wales and still play against the tier 1 nations and wouldn't need to declare for England to do so as is now. 

The problem with that is that Wales don't really play enough games to make that worth while, we would be left switching between GB and the nations for world cups so we don't really solve the problem. It also poses the question what about he NH nations that aren't in Britain? 

GB is currently a solution in search of a problem.

I think a halfway house would be the worst of all worlds.

If we’re designing an international game based on what will help poach Welsh RU talent as the cornerstone, then we are indeed on rocky foundations.

Maybe that’s been the problem all along for the Northern Hemisphere?

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13 hours ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

In a Fantasy World I wouldnt mind seeing something like the following:-

EUROPE

EUROPE A : England, Wales, France, Italy, Russia (2 Home & 2 Away  over 2 Year Period, Bottom Nation Relegated

EUROPE B : Spain, Serbia, Greece, Ireland, Scotland (2 Home & 2 Away over 2 Year Period. Top Nation Promoted & Bottom Relegated.

EUROPE C : Norway, Germany, Ukraine, Czech Rep, Netherlands (2 Home & 2 Away over 2 Year Period. Top Nation Promoted & Bottom Relegated.

EUROPE D : Turkey, Malta, Lebanon (Hopefully they can sort the problems out!), (Play each other home & Away over 2 year Period. Top Nation Promoted depending on meeting off field standards

NORTH AMERICAS

USA v Canada v Jamaica (Each Year One Nation Hosts the other 2 Nations. The Next year Host Nation Changes)

AUSTRALASIA

AUSTRALASIA A

Australia, NZ, Tonga ( 2 Games a Year, Bottom Nation Relegated)

AUSTRALASIA B

PNG, Samoa, Fiji, Cook Islands ( 2 Nations play off for the Final to see who gets Promoted)

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One Year England play Australia in a Series the next NZ and then 2 years off with WC Qualis and WC etc

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I know League is played i places like South America (They do a great job organizing things)Thailand, Philipines, Japan, Vanuatu, Poland etc but I have just done the main Nations that have Memeberships of the RLIF/RLEF in Europe, Australasia and North America

My suggestion is very similar but have groups of 4 teams.

1. Teams play each other just once

2. Play group games in one country to reduce travel costs

3. Play them over 2 consecutive weekends I.e. Saturday, Wednesday, Sunday.or over 3 consecutive weekends if available.  If NRL players are not available it is not the end of the world.

4. P&R between each Group - 1 team only

5. Top 2 from European Group 1 play in end of Year 4 Nations in NH and the following year the top 2 plays in the SH tournament

6. Similar format in the SH

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14 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

My suggestion is very similar but have groups of 4 teams.

1. Teams play each other just once

2. Play group games in one country to reduce travel costs

3. Play them over 2 consecutive weekends I.e. Saturday, Wednesday, Sunday.or over 3 consecutive weekends if available.  If NRL players are not available it is not the end of the world.

4. P&R between each Group - 1 team only

5. Top 2 from European Group 1 play in end of Year 4 Nations in NH and the following year the top 2 plays in the SH tournament

6. Similar format in the SH

I understand the logic behind this but I think if we really want to grow hte game then there has to be home games for each nation every year. England never maintain any momentum with the fans because we don't play regularly enough. Even when we have a Four Nations or a World Cup here, if there's not games already organised and on sale in England then there's such an opportunity missed to keep any new fans interested but we've not got a single bloody game on here this year. All major nations need consistent home games.

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13 minutes ago, wackojacko said:

I understand the logic behind this but I think if we really want to grow hte game then there has to be home games for each nation every year. England never maintain any momentum with the fans because we don't play regularly enough. Even when we have a Four Nations or a World Cup here, if there's not games already organised and on sale in England then there's such an opportunity missed to keep any new fans interested but we've not got a single bloody game on here this year. All major nations need consistent home games.

Fair comment.

My comment was based on creating a suitable format that was affordable for travelling teams, especially those in Groups 2 and 3 in the NH and that you can have group games completed over 2 weekends if necessary.

If the format is successful and brings in increased sponsorship then by all means alter the structure to give each team some home games each year.

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1 hour ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I think a halfway house would be the worst of all worlds.

If we’re designing an international game based on what will help poach Welsh RU talent as the cornerstone, then we are indeed on rocky foundations.

Maybe that’s been the problem all along for the Northern Hemisphere?

It’s actually a progressive measure. At a basic level, the European Championship gives regular competition for Wales, France, Scotland et al while GB offers a carrot for non-English rugby players to play for the ‘premium brand’ in home & tour Tests against Australia, New Zealand and other Pacific nations.

The European Championship also keeps the England show on the road between World Cups.

Let’s be honest here. Wales, Scotland et al are vanishly unlikely to have their own tours to Australia, New Zealand etc. So if we want to give their players the prospect of an international calendar worthy of the name then GB is the way to go.

France could host games when Australia, New Zealand etc tour. And there’s no logical reason why they couldn’t arrange games against Pacific and other nations home or away in the interim.

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A mid season break for Origin and internationals, like I previously mentioned, would be fantastic and it is what the players want. It would be the biggest thing that the NRL could do for the game as a whole:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12243023

It's growth Tongan prop Tevita Pangai Jr hopes to see continued in the coming years, with a mid-season test window an attractive proposition.

"I wish they would have a mid-season break where we could play some test footy while the Origin is on," he said. "I'm sure people at clubs would appreciate that if there was Origin and like a month's break mid-season.

"I reckon it'd be good for the game to do that."

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I've been thinking of a points "atrophy" or "degradation" system where, if a team (say the Kangaroos) don't play X number of games per year then their World Ranking points start to diminish.

It could encourage teams to play more games to keep their rankings.


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One thing I would like to see is a competition of players actually developed in countries. Not a full international, and not really a 'national' side but rep sides of the best players being developed in Wales  in Ireland in France in Serbia in Jamaica in America in Greece and Lebanon

I think it's important recognise, measure and reward where these competitions are. 

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League format. All countries involved in the same league. 4 teams per division. Promotion relegation. 1 up, 1 down. 6 games a year. Top four leagues get automatic qualification to World Cup (position averaged over the preceding four year period. If you spent 3 years in league D and 1 year in league E, you qualify over someone that spent 2 years in league D and 2 years in league E).

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To start realistically.

Every year have an Oceanic, Euro & Americas Cup with the same format & promotion/relegation. Groups of 3/4 to start and however many tiers there is interest for.

Building around that would then be a solid start, 2 games each team still leaves plenty of room for World Cups, "Intercontinental" Cups, tours, 9's etc.

England should be playing some local teams every year, no reason the full team shouldn't be included in a Euro Cup. Likewise Australia should be in the Oceanic Cup every year, not drop in and out.

Edited by jim_57
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As much as I hate myself for saying this but I dont think we need to look too far. Its time to poach an idea from Union. They didnt want to vote for the "World League" idea but why dont we? We can have promotion and relegation, we can have good numbers of teams in the competition and it went right from the floor to the ceiling. It brings meaning to internationals and it "forces" teams to play each other, we could have the final every 2 years rather than every year if we want.

I was not surprised Union didnt vote for it as promotion and relegation from the 6 nations is a thorny subject but for an idea (without that baggage) I think it has huge merit. 

You never know we may be able to tap into some of the funds that were being offered to union to do it (we wouldnt get it all as it was eye watering but the same investors may be interested in investing some of it)

Edited by RP London

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22 minutes ago, RP London said:

As much as I hate myself for saying this but I dont think we need to look too far. Its time to poach an idea from Union. They didnt want to vote for the "World League" idea but why dont we? We can have promotion and relegation, we can have good numbers of teams in the competition and it went right from the floor to the ceiling. It brings meaning to internationals and it "forces" teams to play each other, we could have the final every 2 years rather than every year if we want.

I was not surprised Union didnt vote for it as promotion and relegation from the 6 nations is a thorny subject but for an idea (without that baggage) I think it has huge merit. 

You never know we may be able to tap into some of the funds that were being offered to union to do it (we wouldnt get it all as it was eye watering but the same investors may be interested in investing some of it)

That World League idea is pretty much the kind of stuff that is floated in here on a regular basis, I know I've said similar in the past. Ideas like that should be easy to implement in Rugby League. The size of international Rugby League should be a major advantage in implementing things like this and a proper schedule.

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