Jump to content

Origin in the UK


Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

If the money on offer was good enough they’d have it here.

They can already establish bidding among 3 major cities outside Sydney and Brisbane. I just cant see who is going to spend money to attract a low profile event outside Australia. They probably got very good deals to get Origin played in Perth based on the massive popularity and draw of Origin in Australia. Do we really see the FA or Tottenham or whoever doing the same?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 76
  • Created
  • Last Reply
2 minutes ago, Mr Wind Up said:

They can already establish bidding among 3 major cities outside Sydney and Brisbane. I just cant see who is going to spend money to attract a low profile event outside Australia. They probably got very good deals to get Origin played in Perth based on the massive popularity and draw of Origin in Australia. Do we really see the FA or Tottenham or whoever doing the same?

I don’t disagree. I very much doubt Origin will be coming to the U.K. any time soon but if it does it will be for one reason only. The same reason it leaves NSW or Qld.

rldfsignature.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, DC77 said:

It’s great that a sport is played at Uni, not knocking that in the slightest.

I probably should have been more specific as “proper” team is vague. Should just have said professional, or, similar (or remotely near) to the level of teams in another country. No American football team in Britain would avoid a severe beating..tbh I highly doubt they’d let a pro US team have a game as it would be highly dangerous. 

So, in terms of the top level (or any reputable level) there is no American football league here, nor are there people in any significant numbers that watch these BAFL games, nor does it get any media coverage. To all intents and purposes American football is not played here so as a sport it has that ‘unknown’ curiosity for people. This is all in contrast to RL here, which is played here at pro level (and is its home) so doesn’t have that outsider “let’s try something new” appeal.

True, but it goes further than that. The appeal of NFL is that it’s American. As the biggest cultural exporter in the world, it’s only natural that Britain imports much of its culture (edit: takes cues) from the states. What Britain doesnt do is import culture from countries the size of Australia, which has no relevance as an exporter of culture. 

America is a big brother, Australia the family runt. Hence why NFL has a following, and why Aussie rules has none.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, deluded pom? said:

It may be niche but my point was that a decent number will travel to London for the games. Whether we like it or not modern culture is America driven.

Think you’re missing my point. A decent number travelling to London to watch NFL is exactly my point. This is in contrast to Aussie RL which doesn’t have that niche interest. In terms of your second point, not in terms of sport it ain’t..it’s largely been a wasteland, hence it is niche. 

I’ve always said, the UK is probably the only western country that has been hugely influential in every field of popular culture. Music, literature, theatre, film, television, sport. The top of each category: Beatles, Shakespeare, Lloyd Webber, James Bond, BBC, Premier League. There isn’t another country that covers every base (deliberate Rounders reference).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, DC77 said:

Think you’re missing my point. A decent number travelling to London to watch NFL is exactly my point. This is in contrast to Aussie RL which doesn’t have that niche interest. In terms of your second point, not in terms of sport it ain’t..it’s largely been a wasteland, hence it is niche. 

I’ve always said, the UK is probably the only western country that has been hugely influential in every field of popular culture. Music, literature, theatre, film, television, sport. The top of each category: Beatles, Shakespeare, Lloyd Webber, James Bond, BBC, Premier League. There isn’t another country that covers every base (deliberate Rounders reference).

Pink Floyd is better than whatever the Americans came up with, but other than that that’s a very bizarre take on history. Im guessing this is what people mean when they say theres been a mandela effect, because we’re definitely not living in the same timeline.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DC77 said:

Think you’re missing my point. A decent number travelling to London to watch NFL is exactly my point. This is in contrast to Aussie RL which doesn’t have that niche interest. In terms of your second point, not in terms of sport it ain’t..it’s largely been a wasteland, hence it is niche. 

I’ve always said, the UK is probably the only western country that has been hugely influential in every field of popular culture. Music, literature, theatre, film, television, sport. The top of each category: Beatles, Shakespeare, Lloyd Webber, James Bond, BBC, Premier League. There isn’t another country that covers every base (deliberate Rounders reference).

Agree with your first point. The American sporting influence may not mean uptake in participation but it garners huge interest when the circus comes to town played by two cities most people in the U.K. will have heard of even if they don’t have a clue where they are on a map. Don’t also forget that the Americans as we now know them (no disrespect to First Nation people) have only been around for a lot less time than Great Britain has. They have still made huge dents in the culture of the world we see around us. Most major films are US made. They have plenty of notable contributions to the arts. Without Bill Haley, Buddy Holly or Elvis we may never have heard of the Beatles.

rldfsignature.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Copa said:

I agree.

Aussies in UK/Europe would go simply because it’s Origin. 

And the 67k who went to see England vs Australia at the 90k seater Wembley, a RLWC semi-final double header (so that attendance is divided up among four sets of fans) in what is the highest level of the sport and played at the home of one of the teams who would have made up the vast majority of the crowd...what chance a match between two Aussie club teams getting a third of that attendance in England?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, deluded pom? said:

OK, as I asked earlier what’s going to bring non RL fans in? Two Aussie states playing the perceived (through Australian eyes) pinnacle of a sport seen as a minority pastime in the U.K. We only got 60,000 for a WC semi which would hold far more interest to non RL fanS IMO. Plus, tickets won’t come cheap. Each player gets $30,000 that’s besides other expenses incurred. You’re going to need a second mortgage for club Wembley seats. Will thousands of Aussies travelling Europe drop everything to attend? Debatable. 

Spot on.

4 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

England v Australia would certainly draw a bigger crowd than NSW v Queensland in the UK. There is no point bringing origin to the UK, more international games is what we need. 

Agree, just mentioned that.

1 hour ago, Tre Cool said:

I know two antipodeans (!) locally. One Kiwi who is mad on RL and RU and 100% would go and one Aussie from Brisbane who 100% would go.  

Well that’s that sorted then. Get this game on!

 

1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

What are the UK viewing figures for Origin on Sky?

That’s the crux of the matter. I’d be stunned if they were anywhere near a decent SL game. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Mr Wind Up said:

 They probably got very good deals to get Origin played in Perth based on the massive popularity and draw of Origin in Australia.

They got a good deal for Perth because the WA Government paid near $2billion on the new stadium, and they are staging anything and everything to make sure the stadium is used as often as possible to try and recoup the investment. Origin drew a record crowd, attracted many thousands of visitors to the city and a made a lot of money as a result. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, thirteenthman said:

They got a good deal for Perth because the WA Government paid near $2billion on the new stadium, and they are staging anything and everything to make sure the stadium is used as often as possible to try and recoup the investment. Origin drew a record crowd, attracted many thousands of visitors to the city and a made a lot of money as a result. 

For both parties.

rldfsignature.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, deluded pom? said:

For both parties.

Exactly. No one as yet has suggested who would pay for Origin to come to the UK, and as one of the NRL's big money earners of the year, it's unlikely they'd take it anywhere they weren't guaranteed for it be a financial success. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Agree with your first point. The American sporting influence may not mean uptake in participation but it garners huge interest when the circus comes to town played by two cities most people in the U.K. will have heard of even if they don’t have a clue where they are on a map. Don’t also forget that the Americans as we now know them (no disrespect to First Nation people) have only been around for a lot less time than Great Britain has. They have still made huge dents in the culture of the world we see around us. Most major films are US made. They have plenty of notable contributions to the arts. Without Bill Haley, Buddy Holly or Elvis we may never have heard of the Beatles.

That goes without saying. My point is (since we are talking sport here) is in terms of sport they are a cultural wasteland. There is a Mori poll of most followed sports, the first American one comes in at 18 (basketball). 

When you mention music (contemporary), it’s African American. Elvis was a thief. The Brits exported back their own version (which was much better) and suddenly rock bands started to appear all over the place. 

Western nations in general dominate popular culture, and a great big slice of that is British. You cannot go into a school and not read about Shakespeare. As the originator of the self contained group you cannot start a band and not be influenced by the Beatles (I still say the greatest British rock band (and therefore band) is Queen). The BBC has the largest media footprint in the world...there isn’t a corner of the earth that it doesn’t cover. Just about every major sport (and the most followed league globally), British. 

Contemporary Christmas was invented by Dickens. Halloween by the Scots and Irish. Valentine’s Day by the English. The biggest part of Easter (forget church) are the moulded Easter Eggs invented by Cadbury.

In terms of films (and tv shows), there is a great deal of cross pollination. This year’s awards for example (you can pick any year), Bohemian Rhapsody and The Favourite, two British subjects, it’s leading roles win (last year it was Oldman as Churchill). Game of Thrones is a US show (influenced by the war of the roses you wouldn’t think it). Disney, juggernaut, that has routinely used its ‘English cycle’ for material. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Basketball is played widely across the world. I can’t see it as a good spectator sport personally but hey ho. I know you said most followed. Prince Albert might have had something to say about a contemporary Christmas. Does African American influence happen without America? Brian May was heavily influenced by Hendrix etc.etc. Even Freddie Mercury was played by an American Egyptian actor. English subject or content is irrelevant if it’s made by Disney. I get where you’re coming from but we had a Hell of a head start. 

rldfsignature.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mr Wind Up said:

True, but it goes further than that. The appeal of NFL is that it’s American. As the biggest cultural exporter in the world, it’s only natural that Britain imports much of its culture (edit: takes cues) from the states. What Britain doesnt do is import culture from countries the size of Australia, which has no relevance as an exporter of culture. 

America is a big brother, Australia the family runt. Hence why NFL has a following, and why Aussie rules has none.

Complete bumkum.

Home and Away, and Neighbours, both dwarf any tv show that has ever come out of the US (possible exception of Dallas circa Who Shot JR). Kylie Minogue became as big a female pop star in the UK as a direct result. 

UK takes cues from the US, as the US takes cues from the UK. The idol franchise created by Simon Fuller, that transformed the talent show medium (and music unfortunately).

Claudia Rosencrantz, ITV controller of entertainment. She "has been responsible for some of the biggest entertainment hits in ITV's history. It's no exaggeration to say that the US networks have watched and waited to see what Claudia has commissioned". Her first major breakthrough hits were Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?Popstars and Pop Idol, which changed the fortunes not only of ITV but of two of the biggest US networks, ABC and Fox

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudia_Rosencrantz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, DC77 said:

Complete bumkum.

Home and Away, and Neighbours, both dwarf any tv show that has ever come out of the US (possible exception of Dallas circa Who Shot JR). Kylie Minogue became as big a female pop star in the UK as a direct result. 

UK takes cues from the US, as the US takes cues from the UK. The idol franchise created by Simon Fuller, that transformed the talent show medium (and music unfortunately).

Claudia Rosencrantz, ITV controller of entertainment. She "has been responsible for some of the biggest entertainment hits in ITV's history. It's no exaggeration to say that the US networks have watched and waited to see what Claudia has commissioned". Her first major breakthrough hits were Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?Popstars and Pop Idol, which changed the fortunes not only of ITV but of two of the biggest US networks, ABC and Fox

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudia_Rosencrantz

Plenty of game shows we have made were US creations. Wheel of Fortune. Family Fortunes etc. etc. It’s not U.K. exclusive. Please don’t mention Cowell, even though you called him Fuller. He has ruined my Saturday night viewing.

rldfsignature.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Plenty of game shows we have made were US creations. Wheel of Fortune. Family Fortunes etc. etc. It’s not U.K. exclusive. Please don’t mention Cowell, even though you called him Fuller. He has ruined my Saturday night viewing.

It’s Fuller, Simon Fuller.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Fuller

And I agree. My point is there is so much cross pollination. Very few things are exclusively from one place.

Even African Americans (as founders of contemporary music), they got their call and response routine from the Scots (lining out) who sang in the Scottish Hebrides.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lining_out

Bob Dylan wouldn’t exist without the influence of English, Irish and Scottish folk music. The times they are “a” changing...couldn’t have been.

 

Back on point, the Aussies do have influence and have exported stuff (the two biggest foreign shows to hit the UK), but their RL doesn’t just carry the same curiosity aspect that the NFL does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Basketball is played widely across the world. I can’t see it as a good spectator sport personally but hey ho. I know you said most followed. Prince Albert might have had something to say about a contemporary Christmas. Does African American influence happen without America? Brian May was heavily influenced by Hendrix etc.etc. Even Freddie Mercury was played by an American Egyptian actor. English subject or content is irrelevant if it’s made by Disney. I get where you’re coming from but we had a Hell of a head start. 

Albert, you are referring to the Christmas tree (very influential image from the 1840s that popularised it in much of the English speaking world). He being German, that’s the German influence.

Standiford, Les (2008). The Man Who Invented Christmas: How Charles Dickens's A Christmas Carol Rescued His Career and Revived Our Holiday Spirits.

When you hear about the ‘spirit’ of Christmas, that’s Dickens. Festive generosity, ‘merry Christmas’, goodwill to all men, family get togethers, large meals etc. That book (the most influential in contemporary pop culture not connected to war (thinking of Harriet Beecher Stowe’s novel Uncle Toms Cabin prior to the US civil war) transformed what was a dying religious event into the secular holiday it is today.

African Americans (such as Muddy Waters) have spoken about being hugely indebted to those white British lads who picked up the their records, as white Americans shunned black music. Hendrix, who made his name in London, is a product of the British music scene. 

Mary Poppins...that’s Disney...and yet, intrinsically English (only an English actress (Julie Andrews) could play the role). Disney himself referred to his ‘English cycle’ of material as being invaluable.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, DC77 said:

And the 67k who went to see England vs Australia at the 90k seater Wembley, a RLWC semi-final double header (so that attendance is divided up among four sets of fans) in what is the highest level of the sport and played at the home of one of the teams who would have made up the vast majority of the crowd...what chance a match between two Aussie club teams getting a third of that attendance in England?

 

Origin is far more popular in Australia than any WC match.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Copa said:

Origin is far more popular in Australia than any WC match.

Not among English RL followers it isn’t, and given the topic is about a game being played in England it’s the English fans that matter most here. In terms of the Aussies, how many are in London? And how many of them follow RL? And how many of them would pay to go to a game. The percentage of the general populous that attend sports events is pretty small.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, DC77 said:

Not among English RL followers it isn’t, and given the topic is about a game being played in England it’s the English fans that matter most here. In terms of the Aussies, how many are in London? And how many of them follow RL? And how many of them would pay to go to a game. The percentage of the general populous that attend sports events is pretty small.

Millions of Australians who don’t follow rugby league closely watch Origin. It is one of those events that transcends the actual sport for many people. They’d turn up. 

English RL fans would turn up also. They’d love it. Many RU fans too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

I think origin would sell out Wembley. People love an big prestigious event and you could easily market origin as the highest standard of rugby in the world.

That's a terrible message to send out to the sporting public in England, the runners up in the last World Cup, two years before the next World Cup hosted in England.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, DC77 said:

Complete bumkum.

Home and Away, and Neighbours, both dwarf any tv show that has ever come out of the US (possible exception of Dallas circa Who Shot JR). Kylie Minogue became as big a female pop star in the UK as a direct result. 

UK takes cues from the US, as the US takes cues from the UK. The idol franchise created by Simon Fuller, that transformed the talent show medium (and music unfortunately).

Claudia Rosencrantz, ITV controller of entertainment. She "has been responsible for some of the biggest entertainment hits in ITV's history. It's no exaggeration to say that the US networks have watched and waited to see what Claudia has commissioned". Her first major breakthrough hits were Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?Popstars and Pop Idol, which changed the fortunes not only of ITV but of two of the biggest US networks, ABC and Fox

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudia_Rosencrantz

In your world, the UK is the only country that exists outside of America. 

We are talking global exporters of culture. How the hell does home and away prove your point? Do you want me to list off the hundreds of American tv shows that have become bigger phenomenon than home and away? Or the hundreds of American bands, or writers? Give it a rest, Australia is a tiddlywink in cultural exportation. America is by far the largest in human history. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Mr Wind Up said:

In your world, the UK is the only country that exists outside of America. 

We are talking global exporters of culture. How the hell does home and away prove your point? Do you want me to list off the hundreds of American tv shows that have become bigger phenomenon than home and away? Or the hundreds of American bands, or writers? Give it a rest, Australia is a tiddlywink in cultural exportation. America is by far the largest in human history. 

You stated, Australia “has no relevance as an exporter of culture.”

That, as I showed, is bumkum.

Regards your first comment, in terms of pop culture, outside the UK and the US I have consumed very little else, so it’s hard to look beyond that. I’d say most of the English speaking world is Anglo centric in terms of pop culture. Theres the odd Scandinavian police detective tv show, but what else is there that generates a following? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aussie exports:

Steve Irwin Crocodile Hunter 

Crocodile Dundee

Aussie horror films...Wolf Creek from 2005...featuring nutter Mick Taylor

Round the Twist

Halfway Across the Galaxy and Turn Left

Mad Max 

Prisoner  Cell Block H

Neighbours

Home and Away

ACDC

Russell Crowe

Rolf Harris *his cartoon club was good

Dame Edna Everage

Sia 

It could do better though.., “Australia earned $747m through the provision of cultural goods ($584m) and cultural and recreational services ($163m) to the rest of the world. By comparison, in the same year Australia imported $3,259.9m of cultural goods and $1,329m of cultural and recreational services.

http://artfacts.australiacouncil.gov.au/overview/global-13/ov-fact44/

The Premier League alone generates much more in foreign tv rights than Australia does on total exports. On the subject of this thread, Aussie sports generate very little so that would be an area to look at.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.