wales

[Jampot]

On 26/06/2019 at 00:32, roughyedspud said:

What the hell are you talking about?

Sport Wales...the Welsh equivalent of sport England have funded WRL since 2008

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3A0593e0d7-f129-47a7-b243-ed2a675ed64b

Chill out, that s**t doesn't mean a decent amount of wonga though,  does it?

 

 

[Big Picture]

29 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Harris, Sullivan, Cunningham, Briers, Skerrett and Cowie were all born in England. I don't know the answer, but were they all brought up in England too? Did they come through the English rugby league system? If so, I just don't see how it's legitimate to argue that they constitute a golden era for Welsh rugby league.

Wales reached the semi-final in 1995 by beating France and Western Samoa.

They reached the semi-final in 1995 by beating Cook Islands, Lebanon and Papa New Guinea. They got smashed 58-18 by New Zealand. I clicked on two scorers from the game against Cook Islands - one was Jenkins, who I was convinced would be Welsh. Nope, he's Australian. The other was Tassell. I'd never heard of him, but guess what? He's an Aussie too.

I've actually just looked at the whole Welsh team for that game against the Cook Islands. Not a single Welsh born player in the starting 13 OR among the four substitutes. Every single one of them born in England or Australia.

Yes the players you named came through the English rugby league system, they all qualified by heritage.  The Welsh team in 1995 was a mix of heritage players and RU converts, and they weren't the only country dependent on those player sources.  After RU went pro the converts disappeared from RL, leaving heritage players as the only real source for countries other than England, Australia, New Zealand, France and PNG.

[The British Lion]

On 25/06/2019 at 19:43, scotchy1 said:

Wales is a bit like London, we tried to do it cheap and cover too big an area

What we need to see is 2 or 3 L1 clubs, and 1 or 2 championship clubs feeding in to an SL club as its pyramid

I think there is tonnes of potential in Wales but we have never really nurtured it. Let's be honest a lot of the success we remember in Wales was RU players bought in. That's stopped now

That's a good comment scotchy, I think (not an educated answer) the only way Wales RU survives truly is through the International element feeding back into the regional teams. Without that, they'd be in trouble.

[17 stone giant]

51 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Yes the players you named came through the English rugby league system, they all qualified by heritage.  The Welsh team in 1995 was a mix of heritage players and RU converts, and they weren't the only country dependent on those player sources.  After RU went pro the converts disappeared from RL, leaving heritage players as the only real source for countries other than England, Australia, New Zealand, France and PNG.

Yes, the 1995 squad was definitely the most Welsh and the best Wales have had in living memory. The likes of Johnathan Davies, Scott Gibbs, and Scott Quinnell were great players.

I suppose I just find it hard to think of it as a golden era for Welsh RL, when so many of the players came through the union system, and only changed codes for the money. I don't begrudge them doing so for one minute, and it was great to have them in rugby league - it's just that it doesn't really tell the true story about the strength of RL in Wales at the time.

As you mentioned, once those converts dried up, what great players have come through the Welsh system since then?

[roughyedspud]

5 hours ago, Jampot said:

Chill out, that s**t doesn't mean a decent amount of wonga though,  does it?

 

 

Does sport Wales exist? Yes..

Does sport Wales fund Welsh RL ? yes..

Was the post i quoted a load of ######?..yes..

[Damien]

8 hours ago, The British Lion said:

That's a good comment scotchy, I think (not an educated answer) the only way Wales RU survives truly is through the International element feeding back into the regional teams. Without that, they'd be in trouble.

Argubly it's that international element that stopped much more of Welsh Rugby Union switching to Rugby League in the first place.

[fighting irish]

Settle down lads. The golden age of Rugby League in Wales is now. The players who represent Wales today are Rugby League players. The recent signings to the pro. game, of young players (I think the report said 24 in all) have all come from the WRL, in Wales.

That is an amazing achievement.

The fact that we can't match England at international level, or produce a Super League club (yet) doesn't matter a hoot!

We are growing. 

At a time when a lot of heartland areas report declining numbers of participants.

The fact that you ignore these achievements, about Wales, London and Newcastle (Coventry perhaps) is at the heart of Rugby League's problems.

You seem to place no value whatsoever on participation and the lifelong efforts of volunteer organisers and officials.

Grass roots development is what feeds everything else.

You bu  ggers think its possible to create a Super League club in an area where there are no participants, no fans, no history, no culture.

In the recent 5 live podcast, the studio guests made it quite plain, you can't sell something in an area where there is no market (demand).

The demand (and the feeder systems required) for pro-football comes from hundreds of thousands of participants, their families and friends.

We should celebrate Welsh Rugby League, as it is. Like they do in Belgrade.

[damp squib]

This problem of RL fans getting excited about "glory days" and then inevitably getting disappointed is still going on. This would be bad in itself but, even worse, it leads to decisions that actively harm real development.

Wales 1995 - based on heritage players and a soon to be shut off stream of converts. Surface deep.

Ireland 2008 - lucky crop of heritage players hold up their hands. Most disappeared shortly after.

Scotland 2016 - as above. Heralded as a new force in international RL before disappearing almost immediately (not before denying France a place in the 4-nations unfortunately).

Ireland 2017 - last minute decisions by Amor, Singleton, LMS, Kay etc. that they fancy a WC. Never seen again in Ireland colours. RLI try to introduce quota rules to boost domestic representation and are booted out by new administration who want to keep up the "Glory Days" at the expense of real development.

This is not an argument against heritage players. I understand their value and what they bring to the international game. However fans (and administrators) need to realise that these teams are incredibly transient, don't in any way reflect the strength of RL in those countries and should certainly not be dictating decisions made for the future of the game.

[rlno1]

10 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

Harris, Sullivan, Cunningham, Briers, Skerrett and Cowie were all born in England. I don't know the answer, but were they all brought up in England too? Did they come through the English rugby league system? If so, I just don't see how it's legitimate to argue that they constitute a golden era for Welsh rugby league.

Wales reached the semi-final in 1995 by beating France and Western Samoa.

They reached the semi-final in 1995 by beating Cook Islands, Lebanon and Papa New Guinea. They got smashed 58-18 by New Zealand. I clicked on two scorers from the game against Cook Islands - one was Jenkins, who I was convinced would be Welsh. Nope, he's Australian. The other was Tassell. I'd never heard of him, but guess what? He's an Aussie too.

I've actually just looked at the whole Welsh team for that game against the Cook Islands. Not a single Welsh born player in the starting 13 OR among the four substitutes. Every single one of them born in England or Australia.

Looking at the 2000 World Cup from memory maybe 3 players in the squad, 2 of which, Moriarty and Devereaux, were drafted in late in the tournament.

Compared to the 2017 World Cup when the 24 man squad were about 42% born and bred Welsh Rugby League players. This after over a half a dozen certain selections were left at home unavailable. 

Wales is tracking in the right direction. 

[Number 16]

13 hours ago, fighting irish said:

'd like to see them playing USA, Canada and Jamaica,

A match up against Jamaica this autumn would be both timely and the correct level. Neither are involved in the qualifiers so I guess that they're looking for fixtures to build towards 2021. I'd love for it to happen in Jamaica itself, but given costs, with most Jamaica players being UK based, over here makes more sense. 

[17 stone giant]

3 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Settle down lads. The golden age of Rugby League in Wales is now. The players who represent Wales today are Rugby League players. The recent signings to the pro. game, of young players (I think the report said 24 in all) have all come from the WRL, in Wales.

That is an amazing achievement.

The fact that we can't match England at international level, or produce a Super League club (yet) doesn't matter a hoot!

We are growing. 

At a time when a lot of heartland areas report declining numbers of participants.

The fact that you ignore these achievements, about Wales, London and Newcastle (Coventry perhaps) is at the heart of Rugby League's problems.

You seem to place no value whatsoever on participation and the lifelong efforts of volunteer organisers and officials.

Grass roots development is what feeds everything else.

You bu  ggers think its possible to create a Super League club in an area where there are no participants, no fans, no history, no culture.

In the recent 5 live podcast, the studio guests made it quite plain, you can't sell something in an area where there is no market (demand).

The demand (and the feeder systems required) for pro-football comes from hundreds of thousands of participants, their families and friends.

We should celebrate Welsh Rugby League, as it is. Like they do in Belgrade.

That's great to hear. I'm absolutely not anti-Wales RL. I want it to be a success, just as I do RL everywhere.

What are you thoughts on the GB team returning permanently? I'm in favour of it because I think it could be used to aid development in Wales and Scotland. For example, imagine a GB vs Australia Ashes test at the Principality stadium on a Saturday - you could then have a Wales vs Scotland game either immediately before that match (double header), or on the Friday night before, so as to make a rugby league weekend in Wales. Young Welsh players would see a pathway to both representing Wales, but also Great Britain - which initially at least you would assume would be a much bigger crowd. Players in all sports want to play at the top level and on the big occasions.

My plan would be that you used GB as a target to both encourage Welsh RL players to come through the system, and also to tempt the odd Welsh RU player who might fancy a switch of codes.

If, as I'd like to hope, the numbers of quality Welsh players coming through increases over the years, you then give Wales more high profile matches. They can play England more regularly, and they can play against touring Kangaroo and Kiwi teams. And if it did ever get to rugby union type levels where Wales are more than a match for England and France etc., then you could maybe seek to split Great Britain up more permanently then.

By doing the above, I don't see what there is to lose by playing as GB instead of England. Even if RL never does anything in Scotland, the Scots would still have a GB team to get behind in an Ashes series. You can't really expect them to support England.

I say bring back GB, but use it properly this time. Don't just restrict it to playing in London and then Yorkshire/Lancashire. Take matches to Cardiff and Edinburgh/Glasgow too.

[fighting irish]

I think its a ''great'' idea. 

[gogledd]

On 26/06/2019 at 00:32, roughyedspud said:

What the hell are you talking about?

Sport Wales...the Welsh equivalent of sport England have funded WRL since 2008

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3A0593e0d7-f129-47a7-b243-ed2a675ed64b

I'm making a comparison of the funding that Wales Wheelchair Rugby League team get to that in England. Wales WhRL have ZERO funding...and that's a fact.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

Real shame what’s happened in Wales. We must have gotten results there quicker than any other ‘development’ area. It’s a historical anomaly that Wales didn’t become a RL area anyway and we should have continued investing in it.

Crusaders didn’t quite work but a lot of what they did did work. I know we don’t have much money but we should invest in junior development in Wales. The results in player numbers alone will be worth it and I think a SL team can be viable there.

similar to London in some ways. The stripping of SE funding was a killer. Wales and London could thrive given enough funding for the junior game in their areas.