Grand Final Predictions

[Rhinoferg]

Spoiler alert if you didn't watch and have recorded last night's game.

After Saint's proving that they are the top team in the comp playing for 80 minutes last night against Wire, it unlikely that anyone can stop them getting to the GF.

Or will they fall at the last hurdle? 

Who will be in the GF and who will win?

I think it will be Saints v Wigan. Wigan are now 4th and quietly putting results together,they usually come good towards the end of the season. I don't think Leeds can win it from 12th lol

[Exiled Wiganer]

Wire showed for a while yesterday how to beat Saints, and I think Wigan will do in a couple of weeks. There is a problem in being over praised front runners, in that you start to believe your own hype (look at England cricket as an example). When we get to autumn, if Wigan are 3rd with our squad and deep wells of resilience and knowledge of what it takes to win at that time of year, I think we will be champions again.

If not us, then I see no reason why Wire won’t finally emerge as champions. But for the double whammy of Hughes and the ridiculous forward pass last night they looked likely to finish the job last night. Of course, if FC are in the mood they can beat anyone. 

One key factor will of course be who gets to and wins at Wembley. It is always hard to peak twice in a relatively short time period (plus the lack of weeks off takes its toll). 

Interesting times at both ends of the table (Giants for the drop?).

[Man of Kent]

Saints because defence. And while they can rip teams to shreds with their strike they also can grind out wins through grunt.

Wire don’t have the guile, Hull FC don’t have the pack/defence, Wigan don’t have the class. 

For me it would be a shame if Saints didn’t win the title. They are the best team by a country mile. A complete team, if you like.

[Gooleboy]

31 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Saints because defence. And while they can rip teams to shreds with their strike they also can grind out wins through grunt.

Wire don’t have the guile, Hull FC don’t have the pack/defence, Wigan don’t have the class. 

For me it would be a shame if Saints didn’t win the title. They are the best team by a country mile. A complete team, if you like.

Saints are the best team as you say, just like Cas were a couple of years ago, but they didn't win it. This is why for me, playing everybody home and away should decide who are the Champions. If money dictates that they want Play Offs at the end of the season, call it the Premiership Play Offs like we used to do.  It was always well supported at Old Trafford.

[Rhinoferg]

44 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Wire showed for a while yesterday how to beat Saints, and I think Wigan will do in a couple of weeks. There is a problem in being over praised front runners, in that you start to believe your own hype (look at England cricket as an example). When we get to autumn, if Wigan are 3rd with our squad and deep wells of resilience and knowledge of what it takes to win at that time of year, I think we will be champions again.

If not us, then I see no reason why Wire won’t finally emerge as champions. But for the double whammy of Hughes and the ridiculous forward pass last night they looked likely to finish the job last night. Of course, if FC are in the mood they can beat anyone. 

One key factor will of course be who gets to and wins at Wembley. It is always hard to peak twice in a relatively short time period (plus the lack of weeks off takes its toll). 

Interesting times at both ends of the table (Giants for the drop?).

Warrington didn't show how to beat Saints, they played well for an hour and then Saints took their opportunities. Saints never looked like losing.

 

It doesn't matter about this result.... October is when it counts at Old Trafford..

[Man of Kent]

18 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Saints are the best team as you say, just like Cas were a couple of years ago, but they didn't win it. This is why for me, playing everybody home and away should decide who are the Champions. If money dictates that they want Play Offs at the end of the season, call it the Premiership Play Offs like we used to do.  It was always well supported at Old Trafford.

I’m totally fine with the play-offs.

Cas weren’t up to it on the night. I believe Saints will be.

[deluded pom?]

37 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I’m totally fine with the play-offs.

Cas weren’t up to it on the night. I believe Saints will be.

Unlike last year when the same was said about Saints. Who knows, they may become serial chokers.

[Hullfan]

Saints v Hull FC final landslide victory to Saint Helens 

[Man of Kent]

16 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Unlike last year when the same was said about Saints. Who knows, they may become serial chokers.

No Walmsley last year and Barba was mentally back in Australia but I hear you

[Moove]

Just now, Hullfan said:

Saints v Hull FC final landslide victory to Saint Helens 

I'd be pretty happy if 2019 turned out to be a repeat of 2006!

I don't think many Saints fans will disagree with comments about our big game record, in recent years it absolutely stinks. So there'll be no chicken counting here until there's a trophy won.

There are some key differences though in the Saints team this year compared to last. For a start we haven't got the Barba nonsense to deal with and Coote is clearly a more stabilising figure in defence. Holbrook also appears to have learned a massive lesson from last year where he was playing the first choice 17 every week where he could. This year we've rotated a lot more and look much fitter for it. Last night being a good example of how we were able to sustain pressure for a long period but still have more energy left at the end, despite being down to 16 for almost 80 minutes.

Of course that will all count for nothing if we win nothing, they're the rules. Either way it's been entertaining stuff pretty much every week of the season so it could be worse.

As for the rest... it would be difficult to bet against Wire being in the final, but Hull are a capable team on their day. If Hull are in the CC final though I can't see them having the energy to also make it to the Grand Final. Wigan seem to be finding some form but I'm not sure they'd have enough quality against Saints or Wire when it comes to the crunch games. It's pretty close for the fourth and fifth places though and there's loads of rugby still to be played. At the end of the day, when it comes to play-off footy there's a lottery element to it which makes it difficult to predict.

[Exiled Wiganer]

1 hour ago, Rhinoferg said:

Warrington didn't show how to beat Saints, they played well for an hour and then Saints took their opportunities. Saints never looked like losing.

 

It doesn't matter about this result.... October is when it counts at Old Trafford..

We all see different things when watching the same thing. Saints have plenty of bang average players, with one true world class forward in Thompson. They are very beatable when autumn comes round. Mid summer, with carte blanche to throw the ball around is not playing under pressure on a wet evening with a nip in the air. To be honest, in those circumstances all it would take would be to keep it tight and concentrate the attack on Grace, and they will lose again. He is this year’s Richardson. 

Now, there is another point, and I would not want to discourage the many Saints fans who discovered computers after KC left, and it is well made. I genuinely believe we give far too little credit to the team who finishes top of the league. That, to my mind, is every bit as great an achievement as winning in October. It grates on me that, say, Wire can’t argue that they have been champions for 50 years when we all saw them top the league in style. 

[Saint Toppy]

Holbrook has learned from his 2 crucial mistakes last year.

He stated publicly that he saw no reason to play his strongest 13 every week, but by the time we got to August / September most of the team looked absolutely knackered, particularly some of the 'older' players like Roby & Taia. This year he started the season keeping a settled team but since Easter he's consistently rotated the squad, resting players almost every week. This will see a much fresher team come the crucial games at the end of the year.

His 2nd big error last year was to plan most of the teams attacking plays around Barba. Once his head was elsewhere from around August onwards the whole team suffered. This year they seem to have a much wider variety of attacking plays and the inclusion of Naiquama now gives them attacking options on both sides not just down the left with Percival & Grace (which is also the side where Barba tended to attack from). For all Barba's attacking flair, Coote gives the Saints team so much more balance than Barba ever did and a defensive organization & solidity that was missing in many of the big games.

Assuming he stays fit to the end of the year the other big plus for Saints this year is having Walmsley back. He makes a massive difference the yards the team makes up the middle and he takes a lot out of the opposition forwards to try and contain him. 

[Rhinoferg]

3 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

We all see different things when watching the same thing. Saints have plenty of bang average players, with one true world class forward in Thompson. They are very beatable when autumn comes round. Mid summer, with carte blanche to throw the ball around is not playing under pressure on a wet evening with a nip in the air. To be honest, in those circumstances all it would take would be to keep it tight and concentrate the attack on Grace, and they will lose again. He is this year’s Richardson. 

Now, there is another point, and I would not want to discourage the many Saints fans who discovered computers after KC left, and it is well made. I genuinely believe we give far too little credit to the team who finishes top of the league. That, to my mind, is every bit as great an achievement as winning in October. It grates on me that, say, Wire can’t argue that they have been champions for 50 years when we all saw them top the league in style. 

I agree,we do all see things differently and no doubt Wigan will come good when the weather gets bad. I hate to say it but I will tip Wigan to win the GF. Whether they play St Helens or Wire is another thing but it will be one of them.

[Dunbar]

4 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

Saints are the best team as you say, just like Cas were a couple of years ago, but they didn't win it. This is why for me, playing everybody home and away should decide who are the Champions. If money dictates that they want Play Offs at the end of the season, call it the Premiership Play Offs like we used to do.  It was always well supported at Old Trafford.

Why is it money that dictates we use play off's to determine our champion team when we have used play off's for the vast majority of our history. I would say it is tradition. 

[MZH]

Saints are obviously the best and most consistent team in SL, but the nature of playoffs is that you have to perform on the day.

As a Hull fan I am certain that we can beat Saints on our day. That's not to say I think we will. But I know that if we play to the best of our ability we have the quality to beat them. Warrington will feel the same, and perhaps even Wigan (although I aren't counting Wigan as proper contenders just yet).

I would be pretty shocked if they fail to make the GF given that they will get two bites at the cherry, but when they get there, anything can happen in 80 minutes.

 

[Gooleboy]

10 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Why is it money that dictates we use play off's to determine our champion team when we have used play off's for the vast majority of our history. I would say it is tradition. 

We did use Play Offs for years, the old top 4, but in those days the teams were all in 1 Division and didn't play everybody. Once it went to 2 Divisions in 73 - 74, the team who finished top were Champions and it stayed like that till in to the SL era. So if it isn't about money, it must have been just copying the NRL or it was to suit Sky TV.  

[Dunbar]

8 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

We did use Play Offs for years, the old top 4, but in those days the teams were all in 1 Division and didn't play everybody. Once it went to 2 Divisions in 73 - 74, the team who finished top were Champions and it stayed like that till in to the SL era. So if it isn't about money, it must have been just copying the NRL or it was to suit Sky TV.  

Or you could just accept that a first past the post system is your preference (which is fine) while others may prefer a play off system (as I do) without it somehow having been forced upon us.

Edit: you did actually say 'for me' so I accept it is your opinion. But others may still like the play off systems.

[Eddie]

I had a score on Wigan a few weeks ago at 16/1, think they’ll beat Saints in the final. 

[Dave T]

If I had to put my money on anyone, it would be Saints, they are clearly the best team in the comp at the moment. But there are big question marks over their big game performances. 

In the last 10 years they have won 1 Grand Final, lost 3 GFs, lost in 5 semi finals, plus 1 other playoff loss. They also havent made the Cup final in this period.

Wire may finish 2nd, but I have made my view clear on our chances. Very low with our tactics. The only hope for us is that Ratchford and Brown come back to sort out our attack and Currie plays to more than 50% of his ability. But I would be very surprised if this was our year.

Wigan - never write them off, but even though they are getting wins, I'm not sure they are good enough to win this year. 

Hull FC - these are the ones who I think could rock the boat. They could also finish 8th! But when they are on fire I enjoy watching them. They attack with flair and pace, and if they got a run at the end of the year they could shock Saints.

[Dunbar]

6 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Wire showed for a while yesterday how to beat Saints, and I think Wigan will do in a couple of weeks. There is a problem in being over praised front runners, in that you start to believe your own hype (look at England cricket as an example). When we get to autumn, if Wigan are 3rd with our squad and deep wells of resilience and knowledge of what it takes to win at that time of year, I think we will be champions again.

If not us, then I see no reason why Wire won’t finally emerge as champions. But for the double whammy of Hughes and the ridiculous forward pass last night they looked likely to finish the job last night. Of course, if FC are in the mood they can beat anyone. 

One key factor will of course be who gets to and wins at Wembley. It is always hard to peak twice in a relatively short time period (plus the lack of weeks off takes its toll). 

Interesting times at both ends of the table (Giants for the drop?).

I would agree with this assessment of Wigan but the big unknown for me is how they will perform in those crunch games without Wane at the helm who has been the embodiment of this resilience and knowledge.

[Dunbar]

I would still go for Saints but it is pretty open at this stage.

Have to say, I enjoyed the Middle 8's but it will be nice come crunch time for all the focus to be at the quality end of the table. This system produces some intense play off games.

[Dave T]

27 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I would still go for Saints but it is pretty open at this stage.

Have to say, I enjoyed the Middle 8's but it will be nice come crunch time for all the focus to be at the quality end of the table. This system produces some intense play off games.

To be fair, we still focused on the LLS, Playoffs and Grand Final during that period. We just got even more games per weekend which is good by me!

[Big Picture]

6 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Or you could just accept that a first past the post system is your preference (which is fine) while others may prefer a play off system (as I do) without it somehow having been forced upon us.

Edit: you did actually say 'for me' so I accept it is your opinion. But others may still like the play off systems.

Another thing to consider is that the League kept playoffs all along, but for years did not use them to crown a champion.  How stupid was that latter idea?

[Chris22]

Has anyone from outside the top 2 ever made the Grand Final in the top 5 system? I'm not sure they have.

It's likely that Saints will come top. They haven't lost a game at home all year to date, so are likely to win one of their two home shots at Old Trafford.

Equally, Warrington look odds on to finish second. If all goes to form, they would play Saints away and if they lost Hull or Wigan at home. Win one, they are at Old Trafford.

The top 2 are rightfully given an advantage in this system and in any year will be favourites, especially this one as there is a gap between the top 2 and the rest.

Hull and Wigan have a chance of causing a shock, but coming 3rd or below in this system makes that a big challenge.

[ivans82]

Saints look all over the GF winners this year , but probably as usual the Final will be played on a ###### wet night when the Team who make the least mistakes win , not necessarily a Team with pace who throw the ball about .