Wolfpack games NOT being televised

[JohnM]

12 hours ago, Neville Smith said:

If I can add a bit of clarity to this topic. The broadcasts were not cancelled by Sky. Sky had slots including red button when required for publication. Toronto Wolfpack, who fund the coverage under agreement with the rights holders Sky Sports took the pragmatic decision to cancel, after exhausting all their options to avoid the clash. Later kick offs were not an option due to the flights back to UK for the away teams. 

Neville Smith, Executive Producer, In Touch Productions

Thank you for this. Clarity is at somewhat of a premium on this forum.

[The Parksider]

On 02/07/2019 at 08:32, JohnM said:

It seems The Parksider does expend a lot of energy and words on  Wolfpack isuues, to the dismay of a number of posters. He seems somehow even to disagree with people who agree with him. A neat trick indeed. One technique to counter this might be for everyone to agree with him, then watch as he changes his position.! 

Disappointing you've felt the need to fish for a few "like this" approvals John, and have a go at the poster not the post. I checked you out on your stance on the Transatlantic dream some time ago but you seemed to have your bum welded to the fence. The neatest trick on here is to declare old Parky is a broken record posting the same things.

But the reality is that a few simple questions on the legitimacy of the American dream like where is there any player development that was promised, where will the big TV deal come from if TWP have to pay to be on TV, or as now start cancelling TV games are unanswered despite me asking with some determination? Those were the two pillars to support the American dream. So again John Mr. Perez stated three years ago  he would bring us new players and TV deals to share. I ask again my friend........where are they? Can you see them? Are they just over the horizon as you gaze towards North America? Maybe they are just around the corner if you would open your eyes and go have a look for me??.

Journo's chase useless politicians and often ask the same hard questions many times, and keep on asking whilst the politician prevaricates because they know an honest answer loses them the argument. On here the "neat trick" is to throw insults like Bob8's "idiot" which he suggested every dreamer around him should use until I went away. Your post may not be as crass, but it's in exactly the same "shoot the messenger" vein as the most ignorant keyboard non-reply.

The prize for "Posting the same thing all the time" is the myriad of posts that post  entry criteria for TWP that just never were even mentioned when they joined as guests. Their qualification for entry to SL appears to be variably 1. they run a beer festival, 2. they are glamorous, 3. they sell their own brands of beer and snake oil, 4. they are from a very big city and not a village, 5. they give away many free tickets, 6. they are the start of a Transatlantic league that will save the game here, and even for one notorious Leeds poster the start of a World League!!. The prize so far goes to Ralph Rimmer who stated "they get 10,000 crowds". Why does he get the prize? Because of all people he is in a position to know better....

But as we stand now we have some new aspects of the debate to ponder. Has David Argyle left? Was his outrageous racist comment a neat reason to walk away? Has he walked away? Is Ralph Rimmer serious about "10,000 crowds"? why is he making them up? Why when he has a signed and sealed deal with SL that TWP go up in they win the Championship did he tag "hopefully" on the end of his sentence? Why did McManus state so recently SL cannot change the rules of SL to allow Toronto to be prompted? Why did he say they wanted Toulouse in SL when they agreed they would promote the winner of the Championship - blatant favouritism! Where is Argyle?, are TWP being sold off?, why won't Argylle pay his bills?, what happened to his Skolars investment? why did McManus insult Argyles club as players from here dressed in Canadian Jerseys?

That's 13 questions we could debate and ponder on John but you prefer a keyboard Warrior snipe that appears to pander to the people who like you don't seem to favour the idea of using this debate forum for it's actual purpose. It's not even a good one either...........Call me an idiot if you like........or just use a smiley to avoid replying like Davo 5 does.....He's a stunning debater........

[Dave T]

14 hours ago, Neville Smith said:

If I can add a bit of clarity to this topic. The broadcasts were not cancelled by Sky. Sky had slots including red button when required for publication. Toronto Wolfpack, who fund the coverage under agreement with the rights holders Sky Sports took the pragmatic decision to cancel, after exhausting all their options to avoid the clash. Later kick offs were not an option due to the flights back to UK for the away teams. 

Neville Smith, Executive Producer, In Touch Productions

Thanks for this Neville, it is an interesting point.

My follow up question would be why Toronto decided the best option was to cancel when their game could have still been shown in the UK and Canada and ROW?

The above now makes it a very strange decision rather than pragmatic IMHO.

[PhilCarrington]

On 01/07/2019 at 14:08, Kayakman said:

No big worries Toby...it will all work out in the end.  These are logistical problems since this is really the first time for such a thing.

More worrying is the lack of flexibility presented to Toronto just not on this, but on many other fronts, especially from the RFL and SL. ...these folks had better wake up, smell the coffee and realize what side of the bread the butter is on.  Ottawa is also getting inflexibility from the RFL....this is the real problem.

Example:  "Why are the Canadian Clubs still being denied full membership?" 

I thought Ottawa had full membership  of the RFL - via their purchase of Hemel Stags!

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

18 hours ago, TIWIT said:

That can't be right either. It omits the game vs. Featherstone on 13 July and the game a week later at Widnes.

Widnes have just announced that the kick off for the Toronto game on 21st July has been put back to 17:05 to accomodate Sky TV coverage.

https://www.widnesvikings.co.uk/news/article/56234/toronto-kick-off-time-moved

[Hemi4561]

On 01/07/2019 at 12:07, CanadianRugger said:

Everyone complaining here seems to forget TWP used to play games at 4pm EST but moved to 1pm EST this season at the insistence of other clubs who didn't like the arrangements.

Yet more fervent traditionalist alzheimers.  

What they should be doing is playing home and away each week, based around a 3pm Sunday kick off, as near as possible, just like everyone else does. 

[CanadianRugger]

1 hour ago, Hemi4561 said:

What they should be doing is playing home and away each week, based around a 3pm Sunday kick off, as near as possible, just like everyone else does. 

Sorry but I disagree, that would mean weekly flights and would be totally unhealthy for the players and also prohibitively expensive.

Clearly people in Northern England have never heard of "Road Trips"

No North American professional sports clubs play home-away on repeat all season.  There aren't many sports in the World outside Rugby League that do that.

[bobbruce]

18 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

Sorry but I disagree, that would mean weekly flights and would be totally unhealthy for the players and also prohibitively expensive.

Clearly people in Northern England have never heard of "Road Trips"

No North American professional sports clubs play home-away on repeat all season.  There aren't many sports in the World outside Rugby League that do that.

No sports league in the world plays alternate home and away fixtures it’s pretty much impossible. 

[Man of Kent]

36 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

Sorry but I disagree, that would mean weekly flights and would be totally unhealthy for the players and also prohibitively expensive.

Clearly people in Northern England have never heard of "Road Trips”

Bit patronising, dude. Just because there’s no need for road trips over here that doesn’t mean people aren’t familiar with the concept.

Why shouldn’t Toronto travel home and away when they are based in Manchester?

[Gav Wilson]

2 hours ago, Hemi4561 said:

What they should be doing is playing home and away each week, based around a 3pm Sunday kick off, as near as possible, just like everyone else does. 

Can only assume this is some sort of fervent traditionalist satire/wind up.

Not even Super League or the Championship do this anymore, and haven't done for years.

[Hemi4561]

1 hour ago, CanadianRugger said:

Sorry but I disagree, that would mean weekly flights and would be totally unhealthy for the players and also prohibitively expensive.

Clearly people in Northern England have never heard of "Road Trips"

No North American professional sports clubs play home-away on repeat all season.  There aren't many sports in the World outside Rugby League that do that.

Then establish yourselves a north American continental league and play in that.

[Hemi4561]

46 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

Can only assume this is some sort of fervent traditionalist satire/wind up.

Not even Super League or the Championship do this anymore, and haven't done for years.

I expect better from you, and no it is neither of those.

[TIWIT]

13 hours ago, PhilCarrington said:

I thought Ottawa had full membership  of the RFL - via their purchase of Hemel Stags!

Apparently not.

https://www.totalrl.com/uncertainty-regarding-ottawas-2020-arrival/

[Niels]

6 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

Sorry but I disagree, that would mean weekly flights and would be totally unhealthy for the players and also prohibitively expensive.

Clearly people in Northern England have never heard of "Road Trips"

No North American professional sports clubs play home-away on repeat all season.  There aren't many sports in the World outside Rugby League that do that.

All sports in nearly all countries play fixtures on a home and away basis. They can't be repeat all season because of logistics. 

I agree it is unhealthy for players but that is why it is very rare for a club from another continent to play in another country's league. 

Playing some of the home fixtures in England this year hasn't disadvantaged Toronto anyway. I suspect they could play all their home games in England and win most of them. Maybe they could play alternate home games in Canada and England to minimise the travel and help player safety?

NB. By road trip do you mean a drive? 

[CanadianRugger]

21 minutes ago, Niels said:

All sports in nearly all countries play fixtures on a home and away basis. They can't be repeat all season because of logistics. 

I agree it is unhealthy for players but that is why it is very rare for a club from another continent to play in another country's league. 

Playing some of the home fixtures in England this year hasn't disadvantaged Toronto anyway. I suspect they could play all their home games in England and win most of them. Maybe they could play alternate home games in Canada and England to minimise the travel and help player safety?

 

For sports that are only national leagues, it makes sense to play home and away as it's easier to schedule.  For sports that cross multiple time zones and play on multiple continents, it makes zero sense.

Super Rugby

Pro 14

MLR

NHL

NBA

MLB

NFL

MLS

KHL

None of these competitions use a home and away schedule and why would they?  They cover too large a geographic area.

Europeans don't seem to realize that Europe is rather small.  The continent is basically the same size as our single country.  We have six time zones in Canada.  I watch every Wolfpack game on CBC but I usually have to wake up early in the morning to do so as I live in British Columbia.

Having players fly back and forth weekly between Canada and the UK makes no sense, it would be devastating to the players.  People here seem to have no idea how devastating flying across the world and the jetlag can be.  I used to fly 100,000 miles a year for work.  It is physically and mentally exhausting. It's also cost prohibitive. 

On your point on home games in the UK.  The team is called the TORONTO Wolfpack, not the MANCHESTER Wolfpack.  The simple solution is to organize Tours and Road Trips.  It's what all four Major League North American sports do and it's what Super Rugby and the Pro 14 and KHL do as well.  

If English Rugby League wants to promote their product in NA, they better get with the program.  I'm also sick of having home games at Neutral Venues in the UK.  It's the same BS that World Rugby pulled on the Canadian National Team for years.  Seems Rugby League and Rugby Union are closer in mindset then we thought

[Niels]

35 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

For sports that are only national leagues, it makes sense to play home and away as it's easier to schedule.  For sports that cross multiple time zones and play on multiple continents, it makes zero sense.

Super Rugby

Pro 14

MLR

NHL

NBA

MLB

NFL

MLS

KHL

None of these competitions use a home and away schedule and why would they?  They cover too large a geographic area.

Europeans don't seem to realize that Europe is rather small.  The continent is basically the same size as our single country.  We have six time zones in Canada.  I watch every Wolfpack game on CBC but I usually have to wake up early in the morning to do so as I live in British Columbia.

Having players fly back and forth weekly between Canada and the UK makes no sense, it would be devastating to the players.  People here seem to have no idea how devastating flying across the world and the jetlag can be.  I used to fly 100,000 miles a year for work.  It is physically exhausting.  

On your point on home games in the UK.  The team is called the TORONTO Wolfpack, not the MANCHESTER Wolfpack.  The simple solution is to organize Tours and Road Trips.  It's what all four Major League North American sports do and it's what Super Rugby and the Pro 14 and KHL do as well.  

The only ones of those leagues I follow is the PRO 14. I like Edinburgh and they don't do road trips or tours - in fact nearly every fixture was alternate home and away. 

I also checked a random American football team "New England Patriots" and their fixture list is mostly alternate home and away games.

Same with SKA St Petersburg in the KHL. And the Chiefs in Super rugby. 

Toronto were happy to play home games in England and won them all. They train in Manchester so it makes sense. The players like playing here. You said you watch every game on tv so it doesn't matter to you where they play. 

6 times zones isn't bad. However  France has 12 and Russia 11, although some of those are geographically outside of Europe. 

I get the impression that you expect the leagues and every other team to change their schedules to accommodate the one you support? Other posters here from Canada have a more pragmatic and less entitled approach which does make relations better. 

 

 

 

 

[Oxford]

10 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

No North American professional sports clubs play home-away on repeat all season.

Nor has any RL club in the whole of forever it's just another mythical event which becomes a stick to ward off evil spirits and the little people.

 

[GUBRATS]

4 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

For sports that are only national leagues, it makes sense to play home and away as it's easier to schedule.  For sports that cross multiple time zones and play on multiple continents, it makes zero sense.

Super Rugby

Pro 14

MLR

NHL

NBA

MLB

NFL

MLS

KHL

None of these competitions use a home and away schedule and why would they?  They cover too large a geographic area.

Europeans don't seem to realize that Europe is rather small.  The continent is basically the same size as our single country.  We have six time zones in Canada.  I watch every Wolfpack game on CBC but I usually have to wake up early in the morning to do so as I live in British Columbia.

Having players fly back and forth weekly between Canada and the UK makes no sense, it would be devastating to the players.  People here seem to have no idea how devastating flying across the world and the jetlag can be.  I used to fly 100,000 miles a year for work.  It is physically and mentally exhausting. It's also cost prohibitive. 

On your point on home games in the UK.  The team is called the TORONTO Wolfpack, not the MANCHESTER Wolfpack.  The simple solution is to organize Tours and Road Trips.  It's what all four Major League North American sports do and it's what Super Rugby and the Pro 14 and KHL do as well.  

If English Rugby League wants to promote their product in NA, they better get with the program.  I'm also sick of having home games at Neutral Venues in the UK.  It's the same BS that World Rugby pulled on the Canadian National Team for years.  Seems Rugby League and Rugby Union are closer in mindset then we thought

It might be called Toronto , but it is based in Manchester 

[Omott91]

6 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

For sports that are only national leagues, it makes sense to play home and away as it's easier to schedule.  For sports that cross multiple time zones and play on multiple continents, it makes zero sense.

Super Rugby

Pro 14

MLR

NHL

NBA

MLB

NFL

MLS

KHL

None of these competitions use a home and away schedule and why would they?  They cover too large a geographic area.

Europeans don't seem to realize that Europe is rather small.  The continent is basically the same size as our single country.  We have six time zones in Canada.  I watch every Wolfpack game on CBC but I usually have to wake up early in the morning to do so as I live in British Columbia.

Having players fly back and forth weekly between Canada and the UK makes no sense, it would be devastating to the players.  People here seem to have no idea how devastating flying across the world and the jetlag can be.  I used to fly 100,000 miles a year for work.  It is physically and mentally exhausting. It's also cost prohibitive. 

On your point on home games in the UK.  The team is called the TORONTO Wolfpack, not the MANCHESTER Wolfpack.  The simple solution is to organize Tours and Road Trips.  It's what all four Major League North American sports do and it's what Super Rugby and the Pro 14 and KHL do as well.  

If English Rugby League wants to promote their product in NA, they better get with the program.  I'm also sick of having home games at Neutral Venues in the UK.  It's the same BS that World Rugby pulled on the Canadian National Team for years.  Seems Rugby League and Rugby Union are closer in mindset then we thought

It just shows how insular and unwillingly some people are to change, even if it's to the benefit of rl.

[Dave T]

I'm a supporter of what TWP are doing and what they represent, but I am getting a bit bored of the arrogance on show on some of these  threads. Just because somebody doesn't believe in 'road-trips' as the way forward does not make them a flat-capper or a neanderthal, or any of the other slurs being thrown around. 

TWP have applied and joined the UK's RL pyramid - that is the starting point. Being, frankly, quite rude about people who don't want to bend over backwards for one team is out of order. I wouldn't go to sombodies party and start telling them that they need to rearrange the furniture, play different music and put on different food, and call them backwards and old fashioned if they didn't listen. The manner of discussion on here is appalling, and I'm pretty certain that the club themselves are not acting this brash. It seems ok to bash the more traditional views quite aggressively on here, but I'd encourage people to act with a little more humility and class tbh.

Onto the actual suggestion, my personal view is that it seems pretty workable. I don't think the blocks of home and away games need to be much more than 3 weeks or so tbh, apart from maybe the start of the season where weather may be an issue, but there may be other workable solutions to deal with that too. That solution shouldn't involve Toronto playing home games in London or Halifax for example. 

But let's not paint all this as a no-brainer, we will need to be creative, and people will need to buy into it, I am on board with this, but let's not belittle the views of those who are less accommodating of major changes. 

[Gav Wilson]

14 hours ago, Hemi4561 said:

I expect better from you, and no it is neither of those.

I expect more rational thought on these boards, but it's not always forthcoming.

So why do you expect Toronto to do something that no other team in the league does?

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

I expect more rational thought on these boards, but it's not always forthcoming.

So why do you expect Toronto to do something that no other team in the league does?

Gav, I didnt take Hemi literally on the home and away, but generally teams have a regular mix of home and away throughout the year. It is fair to describe this as a home and away format.

But if your principal is to criticise people wanting different treatment of TWP then why aren't you challenging the view from TWP fans that their fixtures be treated differently?

 

[Big Picture]

8 hours ago, Niels said:

The only ones of those leagues I follow is the PRO 14. I like Edinburgh and they don't do road trips or tours - in fact nearly every fixture was alternate home and away. 

I also checked a random American football team "New England Patriots" and their fixture list is mostly alternate home and away games.

Same with SKA St Petersburg in the KHL. And the Chiefs in Super rugby. 

Toronto were happy to play home games in England and won them all. They train in Manchester so it makes sense. The players like playing here. You said you watch every game on tv so it doesn't matter to you where they play. 

6 times zones isn't bad. However  France has 12 and Russia 11, although some of those are geographically outside of Europe. 

I get the impression that you expect the leagues and every other team to change their schedules to accommodate the one you support? Other posters here from Canada have a more pragmatic and less entitled approach which does make relations better.

You're mistaken about SKA St Petersburg in the KHL.  As you can see here, they generally had alternating groups of home stands and road trips and in the middle of the season they had a 7-match road trip followed by a 6-match home stand.  The New England Patriots didn't alternate home-and-away weekly last year either.

[dkw]

Ah for the days we used to play home/away/home/away....I honestly cant remember when that was last a thing. Christ, were happy if we play 2 home/2 away over 4 games nowadays, its usually some totally random load of ######, often with us being without a home game for 3 weeks, sometimes more.

[Gav Wilson]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Gav, I didnt take Hemi literally on the home and away, but generally teams have a regular mix of home and away throughout the year. It is fair to describe this as a home and away format.

But if your principal is to criticise people wanting different treatment of TWP then why aren't you challenging the view from TWP fans that their fixtures be treated differently?

 

I'm not mate, I'm just tired of fans constantly trying to make more unrealistic demands on a pioneering club that is still in its infancy.

If Hemi just wants them to do 2/3 or 3/4 game blocks home then away where possible, and on a Saturday afternoon in the 6ix - then I actually agree with him 100% and we're all good!