Wolfpack games NOT being televised

[Bramstein]

I don't think you can have one team playing all of it's home games in one block whilst every other team has to follow the usual template of roughly alternating between home and away. It looks ridiculous and creates the impression that one team is being given preferential treatment. And given there are still lots of people out there who for various reasons, some legitimate some not so, are entirely unconvinced by the Toronto venture that is the last thing the league wants to do.

I think there needs to be as near as you can get to equality on this issue. The only way, IMO, to make one long block of home fixtures acceptable is if you make all the other teams do it. But that is clearly going to be a non-starter. Small blocks of fixtures however is easier to impose on all the clubs, I would argue, without much fuss being kicked up. As people have already stated we won't find a solution to this by going for either one extreme or the other.

[Dunbar]

Tough thread to read this one, everybody seems to be arguing with everybody else, it's like a WWE elimination match!

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Bramstein said:

I don't think you can have one team playing all of it's home games in one block whilst every other team has to follow the usual template of roughly alternating between home and away. It looks ridiculous and creates the impression that one team is being given preferential treatment. And given there are still lots of people out there who for various reasons, some legitimate some not so, are entirely unconvinced by the Toronto venture that is the last thing the league wants to do.

I think there needs to be as near as you can get to equality on this issue. The only way, IMO, to make one long block of home fixtures acceptable is if you make all the other teams do it. But that is clearly going to be a non-starter. Small blocks of fixtures however is easier to impose on all the clubs, I would argue, without much fuss being kicked up. As people have already stated we won't find a solution to this by going for either one extreme or the other.

I agree. 

Things like the ground being under 6ft of snow is a great reason to be accommodating to this approach.

Player welfare is a very good reason to consider blocks.

Costs are a valid reason to request blocks, but not a great reason.

It being easier for TWP is not a valid reason.

[Bramstein]

4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

everybody seems to be arguing with everybody else

No we aren't! 

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Tough thread to read this one, everybody seems to be arguing with everybody else, it's like a WWE elimination match!

You not joining in?

[fighting irish]

28 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I have already said why I am not supportive of inessential blocks that are too long. You may not agree with why I have a problem with them, that is your prerogative.

Dave, steady on. I'm not looking for a fight or to upset anyone.

I confess, I haven't read the whole thread so I'm unaware of your earlier arguments.

I just can't see why its an advantage (to Toronto) to play a block of games at home, if they've suffered the disadvantage of playing a block of games away earlier in the season. Over the course of a whole season doesn't it average out?

If the reason people don't want to allow it, is that they don't support the inclusion of Toronto in the league in the first place (as Bramstein suggests) and are using this issue as a stick to beat them (Toronto) with, then why don't they just say that rather than claim the block system gives them some advantage? 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, fighting irish said:

Dave, steady on. I'm not looking for a fight or to upset anyone.

I confess, I haven't read the whole thread so I'm unaware of your earlier arguments.

I just can't see why its an advantage (to Toronto) to play a block of games at home, if they've suffered the disadvantage of playing a block of games away earlier in the season. Over the course of a whole season doesn't it average out?

If the reason people don't want to allow it, is that they don't support the inclusion of Toronto in the league in the first place (as Bramstein suggests) and are using this issue as a stick to beat them (Toronto) with, then why don't they just say that rather than claim the block system gives them some advantage? 

apologies, my post probably read more aggressively than it was intended.

My point is around the process of travelling in the lead up to the game, which all teams would suffer, but TWP wouldn't if the blocks are too long.

[fighting irish]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

apologies, my post probably read more aggressively than it was intended.

My point is around the process of travelling in the lead up to the game, which all teams would suffer, but TWP wouldn't if the blocks are too long.

Ok, I can see that that is an advantage, that I hadn't previously considered. 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, fighting irish said:

Ok, I can see that that is an advantage, that I hadn't previously considered. 

I think in comps where long travel times, flights, road trips etc. are standard this is one of those things that balances itself out, but if you take it too far, the balance can be off.

It's why I am an favour of modest length blocks, that help with player welfare and costs but do not affect competition integrity.

[dkw]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

not sure which season that was, but Leeds had a block of away games this year - they seem to try and blend them out with 2 home, 1 away, 2 home etc. So you will get 4 home games out of 5, but it is split with a home game.

TBH I was surprised that no teams had more than 2 in one block.

Yeah I`m surprised by that too, I forgot Leeds had to start away from home. So theres teams done blocks of away games but not home games.

[Dave T]

Just now, dkw said:

Yeah I`m surprised by that too, I forgot Leeds had to start away from home. So theres teams done blocks of away games but not home games.

Yes, which is an interesting one, as it appears that teams can request to play away from home, but they wont get the benefit back in blocks of home games. Although there have been examples of 3 games on the run in past seasons. 

I think when you are talking about blocks of three or four games here and there it isn't even a noticeable issue tbh.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

 No team suffers through travelling to their home games.

I'm not sure why we would work to deliberately ensure Toronto did.

Ok, cool, let's go with your suggestion of 13 home games on the bounce. 

As long as they play the away ones on alternative weeks.

Works for me.

[Bramstein]

19 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Why is it preferential? What advantage would they get?

It's preferential because they're getting all of their home games in one go whilst everyone else has to stick to the usual program of roughly alternating between home and away. 

As for the advantage Dave T has already pointed out why this being allowed to happen is unfair on everyone else.

[TBone]

4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

If playing all your home games in one go is an advantage, isn't playing all your away games in one go equally disadvantageous?

 

I would guess that it depend on which way around they fall.

You could always ask Kevin Sinfield if playing a lot of away games first-up in the season was an advantage or not.

[CanadianRugger]

9 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

So why are you interested in it ?

I was very interested in watching and contributing to it but listening to the "fans" on here and Facebook has made me think about reconsidering that position.

The way the sport is run is an absolute gongshow.  It could be a Monty Python skit.

There hasn't been a year where a substantial number of clubs haven't gone into receivership or some sort of financial difficulty.  There also hasn't been a year without any sort of self- generated stupid controversy.

5 hours ago, Damien said:

The very first line describes Rugby League as a Micky Mouse sport. That is nonsense.

It barely pays a living wage? Plenty of players across the world earn a living wage Rugby League. More nonsense.

Ice Hockey 100x more popular, really? By what measure? There are around 200 countries in the World and Rugby League is certainly bigger than Ice Hockey in a fair few. It actually only needs to be bigger in more than 2 for that statement to be false. More nonsense.

The rest I've pretty much already covered.

Ice hockey has dozens of FULLY PROFESSIONAL leagues around the world.  It has a European Championship with  participants from 13 different countries including the UK (Belfast Giants and Cardiff Devils are in this years event).  It also has a second Division European Qualifying Competition called the Continental Cup with many more participants.

Ice Hockey is played at the PROFESSIONAL level in Canada, USA, Russia, Germany, Sweden, Czech Republic, Switzerland, Finland, Slovakia, Austria, Slovenia, Norway, Denmark, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Poland, Italy, France, Belgium, The Netherlands, UK, China, Japan, South Korea.

There is no reason Rugby League couldn't be as popular but it never will because the sport will never develop itself outside it's traditional markets.  Do you think they played that much Ice Hockey in China? Yet Beijing has a team in the Kontinental Hockey League with a multi-million dollar budget.

League is popular in the North of England, parts of Southern France, PNG, some Pacific Islands and Australia+NZ.  There are only two PROFESSIONAL leagues in the world.  It's an extremely Niche sport.  

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

I was very interested in watching and contributing to it but listening to the "fans" on here and Facebook has made me think about reconsidering that position.

The way the sport is run is an absolute gongshow.  It could be a Monty Python skit.

There hasn't been a year where a su substantial number of clubs haven't gone into receivership or some sort of financial difficulty.  There also hasn't been a year without any sort of self- generated stupid controversy.

Ice hockey has dozens of FULLY PROFESSIONAL leagues around the world.  It has a European Championship with  participants from 13 different countries including the UK (Belfast Giants and Cardiff Devils are in this years event).  It also has a second Division European Qualifying Competition called the Continental Cup with many more participants.

Ice Hockey is played at the PROFESSIONAL level in Canada, USA, Russia, Germany, Sweden, Czech Republic, Switzerland, Finland, Slovakia, Austria, Slovenia, Norway, Denmark, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Poland, Italy, France, Belgium, The Netherlands, UK, China, Japan, South Korea.

There is no reason Rugby League couldn't be as popular but it never will because the sport will never develop itself outside it's traditional markets.  Do you think they played that much Ice Hockey in China? Yet Beijing has a team in the Kontinental Hockey League with a multi-million dollar budget.

League is popular in the North of England, parts of Southern France, PNG, some Pacific Islands and Australia+NZ.  There are only two PROFESSIONAL leagues in the world.  It's an extremely Niche sport.  

Is that the best you can do? It still doesn't detract from the fact that your original post was nonsense and now you are moving the goalposts. You are now just highlighting how much nonsense you were spouting. No one said that Ice Hockey was not bigger. However it certainly is not 100 times bigger.

It's funny you mention the likes of Belfast Giants, where it is about as niche as you can get, and is an odd curiosity that people take the kids to when they get cheap tickets. They also lose a heap of money but the owner of the Odyssey subsidises for the knock on effect for the Odyssey complex. There have been plenty of teams come and go in the UK too so don't make out that Ice Hockey is somehow superior in that department. What happened to the Edinburgh Capitals last season? Maybe some day I may meet someone in the UK that actually plays Ice Hockey or can even name a player too.

[CanadianRugger]

30 minutes ago, Damien said:

Is that the best you can do? It still doesn't detract from the fact that your original post was nonsense and now you are moving the goalposts. You are now just highlighting how much nonsense you were spouting. No one said that Ice Hockey was not bigger. However it certainly is not 100 times bigger.

It's funny you mention the likes of Belfast Giants, where it is about as niche as you can get, and is an odd curiosity that people take the kids to when they get cheap tickets. They also lose a heap of money but the owner of the Odyssey subsidises for the knock on effect for the Odyssey complex. There have been plenty of teams come and go in the UK too so don't make out that Ice Hockey is somehow superior in that department. What happened to the Edinburgh Capitals last season? Maybe some day I may meet someone in the UK that actually plays Ice Hockey or can even name a player too.

Did I say ice hockey is a major sport in the UK?  No I didn't.... I said that a top Canadian can earn more in the EIHL, which is a 4th tier minor pro league btw, than a Rugby League player can make playing Championship Rugby

EIHL teams pay on average 20,000-80,000£ salaries to their top import players.  That is better than what half the Championship pays their players.

Ice Hockey is an Olympic Sport, one NHL or KHL team has a bigger budget than the entirety of Super League combined.  Clubs in the Top Euro Leagues in Switzerland, Finland, Germany, Sweden, Czech Republic, Slovakia all pay way more money than Super League teams.  

Ice Hockey is also an international sport that has legitimate international tournaments that don't rely on heritage players to fill the ranks of their national teams.  

 

[Kayakman]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

If playing all your home games in one go is an advantage, isn't playing all your away games in one go equally disadvantageous?

 

I think that if they had away blocks at the start with Toronto having a home game in London and one say in Serbia...then the rest are away games for the first half of the season.

In the second half of the season with blocks of 3-4 home games and then 1-2 Away that would work best for everyone involved.

[Damien]

More pathetic disingenuous arguments,  'facts' and attempts to move the goalposts. Most of that has anything to do with what you originally said. You do realise this is a Rugby League forum don't you? I'm sure there are Ice Hockey ones that you can post on. That figure is dollars not pounds by the way but I suppose £16k - £60k doesn't sound quite the same.

[Canis Lupus]

15 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

Did I say ice hockey is a major sport in the UK?  No I didn't.... I said that a top Canadian can earn more in the EIHL, which is a 4th tier minor pro league btw, than a Rugby League player can make playing Championship Rugby

EIHL teams pay on average 20,000-80,000£ salaries to their top import players.  That is better than what half the Championship pays their players.

Ice Hockey is an Olympic Sport, one NHL or KHL team has a bigger budget than the entirety of Super League combined.  Clubs in the Top Euro Leagues in Switzerland, Finland, Germany, Sweden, Czech Republic, Slovakia all pay way more money than Super League teams.  

Ice Hockey is also an international sport that has legitimate international tournaments that don't rely on heritage players to fill the ranks of their national teams.  

 

I am struggling to understand with a wolfpack image to go along with your moniker you are making these posts. We as a club asked to join the RFL and not the other way round. We have enough detractors without belittling the sport  and giving them a stick to beat us with . You mentioned considering your position. It may be best to stick with the arrows and NHL as you do not seem to like our sport much. That way those who love our niche sport can enjoy it and have meaningful discussion rather than have to defend it .

 

[John Drake]

1 hour ago, CanadianRugger said:

I was very interested in watching and contributing to it but listening to the "fans" on here and Facebook has made me think about reconsidering that position.

The way the sport is run is an absolute gongshow.  It could be a Monty Python skit.

There hasn't been a year where a substantial number of clubs haven't gone into receivership or some sort of financial difficulty.  There also hasn't been a year without any sort of self- generated stupid controversy.

Ice hockey has dozens of FULLY PROFESSIONAL leagues around the world.  It has a European Championship with  participants from 13 different countries including the UK (Belfast Giants and Cardiff Devils are in this years event).  It also has a second Division European Qualifying Competition called the Continental Cup with many more participants.

A word of advice from the Site Admin...

This is a Rugby League forum. Everyone who enjoys Rugby League is welcome here, no matter where they are from of who they support.

Please try and avoid going off on a tangent about how great other sports are in comparison to Rugby League, or, as I'm sure would be the case if Rugby League fans started rubbishing Ice Hockey on a forum dedicated to that sport, you are going to end up annoying a lot of otherwise friendly people and will not be made very welcome. Nor will people listen to any of the points you're making if they think you're just here to slag off their favorite sport, which, if I am being honest with you, is how it looks right now.

Most if not all the members on here are aware of the problems Rugby League has in many aspects of its existence, and if you look at many of the other threads on here, are happy to debate those issues in great detail with people who they believe also have the best interests of the sport at heart.

Please adjust your posting style accordingly, and I'm sure we can all learn a lot from each other.

Thanks.

[CanadianRugger]

1 hour ago, Canis Lupus said:

I am struggling to understand with a wolfpack image to go along with your moniker you are making these posts. We as a club asked to join the RFL and not the other way round. We have enough detractors without belittling the sport  and giving them a stick to beat us with . You mentioned considering your position. It may be best to stick with the arrows and NHL as you do not seem to like our sport much. That way those who love our niche sport can enjoy it and have meaningful discussion rather than have to defend it .

 

I like the sport, sick of many of the fans in England though as well as the administration.  My comparisons to one other sport in particular is an attempt to try to show what the sport of Rugby League could be.  Rugby League is a summer sport that is played on a field, it requires almost no equipment, the overhead is super low.  It should be far more popular than it is which is what I am trying to allude to with my deliberate provocations. 

If a sport like Ice Hockey can organize a European Championship, viable International Tournaments and many other Multi-National competitions, with huge overhead (due to the fact it needs ice, equipment and large expensive arenas), why does Rugby League have such a hard time wrapping its head around a couple of teams playing in France and a team playing in North America?

This isn't really surprising for British sport though, they didn't want to join FIFA World Cup when it was first created, the Home Nations didn't want to have anything to do with the Rugby World Cup either.  Why would I or anyone else think that Rugby League could somehow be any different?

I have been to many Wolfpack games, I am friends with owners of a brewery who sells beer at Wolfpack games. Just sick of the nonsense.

You are right though, I am going to retire to the TWP sub-forum for the foreseeable future. CHEERS!

40 minutes ago, John Drake said:

A word of advice from the Site Admin...

This is a Rugby League forum. Everyone who enjoys Rugby League is welcome here, no matter where they are from of who they support.

Please try and avoid going off on a tangent about how great other sports are in comparison to Rugby League, or, as I'm sure would be the case if Rugby League fans started rubbishing Ice Hockey on a forum dedicated to that sport, you are going to end up annoying a lot of otherwise friendly people and will not be made very welcome. Nor will people listen to any of the points you're making if they think you're just here to slag off their favorite sport, which, if I am being honest with you, is how it looks right now.

Most if not all the members on here are aware of the problems Rugby League has in many aspects of its existence, and if you look at many of the other threads on here, are happy to debate those issues in great detail with people who they believe also have the best interests of the sport at heart.

Please adjust your posting style accordingly, and I'm sure we can all learn a lot from each other.

Thanks.

Sorry John,

As I said above, I will be retiring to the TWP sub-forum for the foreseeable future. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Its unnecessary. Its a solution desperately in search of a problem. 

The game over here has clubs going pop, clubs having to borrow players to complete the season, games being played in terrible facilities, games being moved last minute to amateur grounds. 

I honestly and sincerely wish the order in which home and away games were played were in the top 500 problems the game faces. 

This is extremely disingenuous once again. 

The point isnt the order of home and away, it is how you manage the logistical travel challenge of a club on the other side of the world into Super League potentially as soon as next year.

The weirdest point made on this whole thread is you proposing 13 home games on the bounce.

But here's a little thing scotchy, if people have issues with something, then it is an issue. You not having an issue with it doesn't mean it isnt an issue. You don't get to decide. Plenty of people, including Nigel Wood and Elstone have raised the issue of logistics around TWP and how games are staged in SL. 

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

3 hours ago, Damien said:

More pathetic disingenuous arguments,  'facts' and attempts to move the goalposts. Most of that has anything to do with what you originally said. You do realise this is a Rugby League forum don't you? I'm sure there are Ice Hockey ones that you can post on. That figure is dollars not pounds by the way but I suppose £16k - £60k doesn't sound quite the same.

Funny thing is when talking Toronto i cant help but think about the Manchester Storm how big they were 20 years ago.

Lot of things in common with both clubs.

Good city location with transport links. Exciting new sport for a young crowd and good location for bars. Big crowds 17k+ for an unknown sport

 

 

 

[fighting irish]

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