TheLegendOfTexEvans Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 minute ago, fighting irish said: What went wrong? Running costs got too high 1 minute ago, fighting irish said: What went wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi4561 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 9 hours ago, scotchy1 said: Im not trying to shut down discussion on this point but there is a simple, fundamental question about it that that needs to be answered before any other. Why is it a problem if a team play in one block or a small number of blocks rather than a generally alternating home and away fixture list? I have yet to hear a good cogent argument that says we need to have generally alternating fixtures. Nobody seems to be able to make one. Until they do this whole discussion is a list of solutions in search of a problem. Until someone can make a good argument of why playing in blocks is a problem. It isn't a problem. You say here your solution is blocks of 3 or so games home and away, why 3? why not 4? or 5? or 10? or 13? what happens when its more games that makes it bad? What makes it acceptable at 3? What happens when 3 other teams say we want to play all our home games in one block at the same time frame. Instantly the idea falls apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi4561 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 7 hours ago, scotchy1 said: If playing all your home games in one go is an advantage, isn't playing all your away games in one go equally disadvantageous? No, not when you are supposedly a team based on the other side of the Atlantic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 45 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: What would be disingenuous would be someone pretending that the order in which they played the games encompassed the totality of the logistics of it. The logistics of it arent really a debate. It's up to each team to choose what they think is the best way to handle that. You can debate which is the best way to handle it if you wish but that's not what's happening here which is a debate about your strange invention of an advantage that we arent making Toronto travel across the atlantic 13 times because we make others travel once. Something neither elstone or wood have said. I cant debate with somebody who just makes up things that people havent said. This discussion has been really simple for everybody else here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi4561 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 20 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: So I've consulted this millennium's Solvay Conference and the greatest minds alive have discussed it and asked me to pass on their conclusions. If you have further questions let me know, I know its complex and I hope I can truly convey what they have said but here goes... Let them. I doubt you would understand them, IMHO you are a troll of the highest order. The fact that you seem to be unable to understand or admit that allowing one club in a competition to effectively dictate the whole fixture list due to their requirements, and no other club has any choice but to acquiesce because they are the "future" of Rugby league is truly frightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Some context for my fellow North Americans on road trips vs. alternating home away: Brazil is a country with distances comparable to those in the US and Canada. Two of the teams in the Brasileirão (Série A of the Campeonato Brasileiro de Futebol) last year were Ceará and Grêmio, based in the cities of Fortaleza and Porto Alegre which are 4200 km apart, almost 4/5 of the 5500 km separating Vancouver from Miami and Toronto from Manchester. All but two of Ceará's opponents in the 2018 Brasileirão were teams based in cities more than 2,000 km from Fortaleza but as you can see here they pretty much alternated home and away through the 38-round season with no more than 2 consecutive home matches at any point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jampot Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 3 hours ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said: Funny thing is when talking Toronto i cant help but think about the Manchester Storm how big they were 20 years ago. Lot of things in common with both clubs. Good city location with transport links. Exciting new sport for a young crowd and good location for bars. Big crowds 17k+ for an unknown sport Hey Tex! Two things they haven't got in common is that they are totally different sports at totally different points in time. Just saying like............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jampot Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 20 minutes ago, Hemi4561 said: I doubt you would understand them, IMHO you are a troll of the highest order. The fact that you seem to be unable to understand or admit that allowing one club in a competition to effectively dictate the whole fixture list due to their requirements, and no other club has any choice but to acquiesce because they are the "future" of Rugby league is truly frightening. But they wouldn't be effectively dictating the whole fixture list would they for flips sake. Each other team would have to play ONE game in Canada per year, other than that, business as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi4561 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, Jampot said: But they wouldn't be effectively dictating the whole fixture list would they for flips sake. Each other team would have to play ONE game in Canada per year, other than that, business as usual. No, the point is that if Toronto said we want to play our last 9 games of the season in Canada why shouldn't any or all of the other teams say the same thing, that they want to play their last 9 games at home. This is patently impossible to accommodate unless you choose to accede to one clubs wishes and deny the wishes of the other clubs. Justice needs to be done, but also needs to be seen to be done. As a Canadian poster said, they asked to join a league structure based in Northern England knowing full well the logistical problems that would pose, why should they be accorded prefence in choosing when they play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Circadian rhythm. This is the scientificly proven advantage Toronto have. Do not shoot the messenger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jampot Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, Hemi4561 said: No, the point is that if Toronto said we want to play our last 9 games of the season in Canada why shouldn't any or all of the other teams say the same thing, that they want to play their last 9 games at home. This is patently impossible to accommodate unless you choose to accede to one clubs wishes and deny the wishes of the other clubs. Justice needs to be done, but also needs to be seen to be done. As a Canadian poster said, they asked to join a league structure based in Northern England knowing full well the logistical problems that would pose, why should they be accorded prefence in choosing when they play? If the wolfpack do request that they play their last 9 games in Canada then that is obviously down to issues with the weather. If you think for one second that playing all of your games away from home in the first half of the season, thus setting yourself up for falling behind in terms of momentum, is any kind of advantage then you need to get your head checked. Playing the first half of the season away from home can no way be construed as an advantage, yet bucketloads on here will beg to differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marklaspalmas Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 It's ok everyone. I've just seen the Fev game is on SKY. We're in for a treat. https://www.fevarchive.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted July 6, 2019 Author Share Posted July 6, 2019 You know, none of this would be a problem if the season started in the spring rather than the winter. And this thread is now waaay off-topic. And getting nasty. Admins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojx Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 3 hours ago, TIWIT said: You know, none of this would be a problem if the season started in the spring rather than the winter. And this thread is now waaay off-topic. And getting nasty. Admins? Exactly, Why does the "Summer" season start in February again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Parksider Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 21 hours ago, Dunbar said: I attempted to discuss the Wolfpack impact on Super League/UK League with you on the 22nd of June (quoting you) and you didn't bother reacting or responding. Why are you claiming now that no-one wants to discuss or debate these issues with you? The issues they won't debate are the fact that Toronto cannot provide any players to the game, now or in the future as there is no infrastructure for it there. Also the fact that Toronto cannot contribute to the TV monies as North American TV companies don't want to pay $$Millions for an obscure predominantly English game. The inability of TWP to play roughly home and away was raised by Mr. McManus as an additional problem as to why they should not enter Superleague. Because those who favour TWP for Superleague cannot argue against the two major reasons Superleague don't want them in, they argue only about the fixture list issue. The point is even if SL did concede this point there are still two massive elephants in the room nobody wants to mention because they cannot find an argument for the fact that TWP offer nothing to the game here. I read your post inviting me to discuss matters with you. You said“As we don't know the future and because all talk of success or failure is speculation it is a matter of appetite for risk”. Well we do know the future and to be fair most people have part conceded that TWP won't develop SL quality players for many years if ever. That Argylle has deliberately not invested in a player development system actually means it will not happen at all. Perez has therefore invented "Ottawa" and shouted that they will strive to develop players "for as long as it takes". But even he hasn't signed any players to even make a start 2020. "Risk" has nothing to do with it. It is pure stupidity to allow an SL place to be taken away from here and placed 3,000 miles away where they don't play the game and don't really want to develop the game either. The next issue is the TV monies issue. I am afraid it is again absurd that you say "we don't know the future". Do you not read anything? Eric Perez was challenged about his boasts about TWP capturing a TV deal to share here (they pay to be on TV). His excuse was that North American broadcasters won't provide a multi-$Million TV deal to watch predominantly English clubs. Equally as SL bosses say, SKY won't pay a big deal to us if there's too many overseas clubs in the league. So again we do know the future, as it stands we either stick with reality and continue with a game that develops players, who can then stock a predominantly English league that will get an English TV contract, and look to expansion in France. or we just start throwing out real English clubs for phoney North American ones to allow Eric Perez and David Argylle to realise their personal dreams during which SKY will pull the plug. If you can actually see a future of real rich Americans flocking to buy up English RL clubs and take them to North America to form a Transatlantic League that NATV will pay £Millions for then good for you, why not join the other 20 dreamers on here. But don't be daft enough to tell me we should be shutting down Pro-clubs here because your blind optimism thinks there's a chance of a Transatlantic league based on American riches. I "know the future" if you get Cas, Fartown, HKR, Wakey, Salford, Widnes, Bradford etc together in a room and tell them there's no future for them as we are going Transatlantic..........Bonkers......Look what happened when they were told to merge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 3 hours ago, ojx said: Exactly, Why does the "Summer" season start in February again? Because unfortunately our 'summer's lasts for about 5 days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blues Ox Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 So any way at all of watching the Fax game tonight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 7 hours ago, marklaspalmas said: It's ok everyone. I've just seen the Fev game is on SKY. We're in for a treat. Not once, but twice , really getting their moneys worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 2 hours ago, The Parksider said: Well we do know the future 2 hours ago, The Parksider said: So again we do know the future 2 hours ago, The Parksider said: I "know the future" No you don't "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluded pom? Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Dave T said: Because unfortunately our 'summer's lasts for about 5 days! Speak for yourself Dave. There’s a reason Warrington council are building two solar power generating farms, one near Hull and one near York. It’s to steal our sunshine and sell the power on to you lot. It also explains why you all look so pale on that side of the Pennines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluded pom? Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 33 minutes ago, Dunbar said: No you don't He is Septic Peg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jampot Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 19 hours ago, Hemi4561 said: No, the point is that if Toronto said we want to play our last 9 games of the season in Canada why shouldn't any or all of the other teams say the same thing, that they want to play their last 9 games at home. This is patently impossible to accommodate unless you choose to accede to one clubs wishes and deny the wishes of the other clubs. Justice needs to be done, but also needs to be seen to be done. As a Canadian poster said, they asked to join a league structure based in Northern England knowing full well the logistical problems that would pose, why should they be accorded prefence in choosing when they play? I agree that they shouldn't be "accorded preference", no argument there. I just don't think that it is beyond the wit of man to work for a solution that is fair to all but can accommodate Toronto, and as I stated in a previous post, I don't view having a long run of away games at the beginning of the season being any kind of advantage, I see it as a disadvantage to Toronto and therefore I don't believe that they are getting preferential treatment, just being given treatment that allows them to play in the league at all, which surely can only be a good thing for a sport that desperately needs more exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindle xiii Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Congratulations everybody, we made it to the other side. I can confirm that nothing has changed and we were panicking over nothing. A Toronto match not being televised was the new "Millennium Bug". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Parksider Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 14 hours ago, Dunbar said: No you don't Yes I do, because there can't be development of SL players in Canada when there is nobody playing in any sort of player development infrastructure. Also there can't be any NATV contract if there aren't enough NA clubs lined up to play in a Transatlantic league and it was Perez who said this not me. As for gradually replacing English clubs this can't happen otherwise the SKY contract is lost long before any NATV deal for a Transatlantic could be struck..... But you got your ticks and smileys from the dreamers so no doubt you'll be pleased with yourself. Read on....... 4 hours ago, Jampot said: I agree that they shouldn't be "accorded preference", no argument there. I just don't think that it is beyond the wit of man to work for a solution that is fair to all but can accommodate Toronto, and as I stated in a previous post, I don't view having a long run of away games at the beginning of the season being any kind of advantage................ This is all very well but the principle reasons SL bosses do not want to "accommodate Toronto" is because Perez promised the game here what they actually did want in 2016, which was NA player development and NATV deals, and three years into "The Future" neither has happened and nothing is happening to say either of these thing will come to fruition ever. But please do invent by inference Jampot that the only hurdle to TWP's entry to Superleague is the "Irregular fixture list", it nicely proves the point I make to Dunbar that there is some sort of understanding that the real problems TWP face must not be admitted, let alone discussed/debated...... So let me put this to you Jampot, why would SL want TWP when they haven't delivered a single player or a single $dollar from any NATV deal which was what Eric Perez offered if only we would let TWP into the game here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnleywelsh Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 23 minutes ago, The Parksider said: So let me put this to you Jampot, why would SL want TWP when they haven't delivered a single player................. I have put forward this point before, as have others. But, you have never responded. For every player/coach/assistant coach that TWP ‘steal’ from the English game, it creates an opportunity for a young player etc. to fill that space. Therefore, TWP are delivering players to the pro and semi pro game over in England. In a round about way of course. Am I wrong ? Or am I a bit simple ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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