Wolfpack games NOT being televised

[Niels]

5 hours ago, Jampot said:

I agree that they shouldn't be "accorded preference", no argument there.  I just don't think that it is beyond the wit of man to work for a solution that is fair to all but can accommodate Toronto, and as I stated in a previous post, I don't view having a long run of away games at the beginning of the season being any kind of advantage, I see it as a disadvantage to Toronto and therefore I don't believe that they are getting preferential treatment, just being given treatment that allows them to play in the league at all, which surely can only be a good thing for a sport that desperately needs more exposure.

It's an advantage to Toronto than the alternative of having to travel every fortnight if the games were played as usual home and away.

They would be able to train more and develop a touring team mentality. 

Teams play different tactics and conditions home and away. They would not have to switch from one week to another if all the games were in a block. 

So they would have a massive advantage over a side such as Toulouse for example who alternate home and away mostly. 

[burnleywelsh]

9 minutes ago, SL17 said:

You have to fill a space with somebody. The fact these stolen players/coaches are now returning back contradicts your hypothesis.

Do they simply replace the youth and left to dwindle?

What? All of them ? I’m sure TWP still have some players/coaches/staff on their books. 

[burnleywelsh]

1 hour ago, SL17 said:

The players are pawns, replaceable. No infrastructure and nothing doing isn’t expansion.

It’s a holiday.

So are you saying that all of the players who are ‘on holiday ‘ with TWP have not been replaced by others at their former clubs? 

I didn’t mention infrastructure or expansion. I highlighted the fact, yes fact, that for every player that has gone to TWP this has given an opportunity for another to replace them at their former club. Am I wrong ?

[GUBRATS]

5 hours ago, burnleywelsh said:

So are you saying that all of the players who are ‘on holiday ‘ with TWP have not been replaced by others at their former clubs? 

I didn’t mention infrastructure or expansion. I highlighted the fact, yes fact, that for every player that has gone to TWP this has given an opportunity for another to replace them at their former club. Am I wrong ?

But ultimately after all the relative players ' shuffle upwards ' the ones at the bottom aren't as good as the ones at the top , the sport needs more ' top ' players , we've got plenty at the bottom 

[deluded pom?]

9 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

But ultimately after all the relative players ' shuffle upwards ' the ones at the bottom aren't as good as the ones at the top , the sport needs more ' top ' players , we've got plenty at the bottom 

By the same virtue there are players at the bottom of the shuffle who might not otherwise get a chance and may go on to be something in the game. Luke Gale was never going to get a first team spot at Leeds so had to look elsewhere in the lower leagues. There’s a full thread about Harry Smith’s progress being stifled at Wigan. 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, deluded pom? said:

By the same virtue there are players at the bottom of the shuffle who might not otherwise get a chance and may go on to be something in the game. Luke Gale was never going to get a first team spot at Leeds so had to look elsewhere in the lower leagues. There’s a full thread about Harry Smith’s progress being stifled at Wigan. 

Which brings us back to arguments on other threads about player production , Gale came through a SL academy , as many do , in fact already more than SL can accommodate , so they take a punt in the Championship , some develop , some don't , but it is SL quality that the SL clubs want , from the off , it is that which the SL club owners want to see from Toronto 

[deluded pom?]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

 but it is SL quality that the SL clubs want , from the off , it is that which the SL club owners want to see from Toronto 

Then SL will have to be disappointed because not all players develop at the same rate. There are many examples of players who were cut by a SL club at a young age who went on to be SL players. There isn’t one SL club that produces 100% SL players instantly every season. It’s an impossible scenario. Why expect it from another club if you can’t achieve it yourself?

[Dunbar]

9 hours ago, The Parksider said:

But you got your ticks and smileys from the dreamers so no doubt you'll be pleased with yourself. Read on...

I'm happy to leave our conversation here.

I admitted that none of us know how this venture, and the wider North American expansion, will turn out over 10, 20 or even a 50 year horizon. It could have positive or negative consequences for our game but we simply don't know. I am happy to take the risk because of the possible upsides. As I say, for me it is all about appetite for risk.

You, on the other hand, countered by explaining that you know exactly how the future will pan out and (amazingly) it is all negative. 

I refuse to debate with someone who claims to be able to see into the future.

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Then SL will have to be disappointed because not all players develop at the same rate. There are many examples of players who were cut by a SL club at a young age who went on to be SL players. There isn’t one SL club that produces 100% SL players instantly every season. It’s an impossible scenario. Why expect it from another club if you can’t achieve it yourself?

The inference was ' conversion ' rather than development from juniors , again arguments long done as to just how realistic that is , to me there is potential but it will be from RU rather than gridiron , but it is that which was promised 

[deluded pom?]

23 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I'm happy to leave our conversation here.

I admitted that none of us know how this venture, and the wider North American expansion, will turn out over 10, 20 or even a 50 year horizon. It could have positive or negative consequences for our game but we simply don't know. I am happy to take the risk because of the possible upsides. As I say, for me it is all about appetite for risk.

You, on the other hand, countered by explaining that you know exactly how the future will pan out and (amazingly) it is all negative. 

I refuse to debate with someone who claims to be able to see into the future.

I knew you were going to say that.

[Omott91]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

SL club owners but it is SL quality that the SL clubs want , from the off , it is that which the SL club owners want to see from Toronto 

It's a bit rich coming from Super League club owners of clubs who themselves don't produce or develop players.

[Omott91]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

I refuse to debate with someone who claims to be able to see into the future.

I'll have next weeks lotto numbers thanks.

[Dunbar]

11 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

I'll have next weeks lotto numbers thanks.

I would be happy to help but I'm not the one to ask.

[GUBRATS]

28 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

It's a bit rich coming from Super League club owners of clubs who themselves don't produce or develop players.

Which SL club owners who don't produce players ? , Wigan,Wire,Saints,Leeds,Wakey,Cas,Hull,?

[deluded pom?]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

Which SL club owners who don't produce players ? , Wigan,Wire,Saints,Leeds,Wakey,Cas,Hull,?

That’s only seven clubs from twelve. I’m sure you could add a few more but in reality you shouldn’t have to select some teams. All SL clubs should be producing players.

[Omott91]

14 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Which SL club owners who don't produce players ? , Wigan,Wire,Saints,Leeds,Wakey,Cas,Hull,?

Salford for one.

[ojx]

1 hour ago, deluded pom? said:

That’s only seven clubs from twelve. I’m sure you could add a few more but in reality you shouldn’t have to select some teams. All SL clubs should be producing players.

Genuine question, do SL clubs actually produce them? Or do they just hand out scholarships at 16 to the best players produced by the community clubs?

[deluded pom?]

24 minutes ago, ojx said:

Genuine question, do SL clubs actually produce them? Or do they just hand out scholarships at 16 to the best players produced by the community clubs?

You know what I mean though. Who brings them through to a professional level?

[ojx]

6 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

You know what I mean though. Who brings them through to a professional level?

Thanks. So they are more of a finishing school.

[deluded pom?]

16 minutes ago, ojx said:

Thanks. So they are more of a finishing school.

Yes.

[Marty Funkhouser]

2 hours ago, Omott91 said:

Salford for one.

You best tell Ratchford, Sneyd, Lannon, Adamson, the Walnes, the numerous players in the lower divisons etc etc that they were hallucinating their time at Salford.

The problem the WHOLE GAME has is that young people are not been enticed to play it in any numbers at all.

Even in a hotbed like Hull reduced participation has seen the amatuer game reduced from nigh on 60 teams to just 7 in the local league and of course the recent farcical "professional" academy situation reducing numbers even more. Thats 1200+ potential players down to perhaps 150...in one of the hotbeds of the sport.

The quality of those that do actually make it through is now questionable and this is filtering through to the "elite" division. Anybody remotely top class who the Aussies think can make it will soon jet off as a matter of course. The professional game is reliant on a few pockets of activity to produce ALL of its talent. London has been a welcome and needed addition to this party  but still does not produce many. The previously very richly seamed RU mine is now shut aside from the odd novelty/end of career signing meaning we we will never again see the likes of Offiah, Davies, Sullivan ,Fairbairn, Gibbs , Botica , Tuigamala, Tait, Innes, Ellis , Bentley et al, in fact the avenue now runs the other way.

Until all this is addressed we are just stagnating or marking time at best and even with the best intentions  Toronto nor any other virgin territory can contribute anything in the near to mid future at all.

[deluded pom?]

Hull doesn’t produce anywhere near the players they should, either now or any time in the past. One amateur club in Wigan produces more players for the pro game than the city of Hull does.

[Jampot]

15 hours ago, Niels said:

It's an advantage to Toronto than the alternative of having to travel every fortnight if the games were played as usual home and away.

They would be able to train more and develop a touring team mentality. 

Teams play different tactics and conditions home and away. They would not have to switch from one week to another if all the games were in a block. 

So they would have a massive advantage over a side such as Toulouse for example who alternate home and away mostly. 

I can see the point you're making, and in some ways I don't disagree with what you are saying.  However, if you asked any team, including Toronto, do you want to start the season with a long block of away matches thus in all likelihood putting yourselves under pressure in comparison to all other teams, I don't believe that any team would want that or consider that an advantage.  Quite the opposite, in fact.

[Jampot]

16 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Yes I do, because there can't be development of SL players in Canada when there is nobody playing in any sort of player development infrastructure. Also there can't be any NATV contract if there aren't enough NA clubs lined up to play in a Transatlantic league and it was Perez who said this not me. As for gradually replacing English clubs this can't happen otherwise the SKY contract is lost long before any NATV deal for a Transatlantic could be struck.....

But you got your ticks and smileys from the dreamers so no doubt you'll be pleased with yourself. Read on....... 

This is all very well but the principle reasons SL bosses do not want to "accommodate Toronto" is because Perez promised the game here what they actually did want in 2016, which was  NA player development and NATV deals, and three years into "The Future"  neither has happened and nothing is happening to say either of these thing will come to fruition ever.

But please do invent by inference Jampot that the only hurdle to TWP's entry to Superleague is the "Irregular fixture list", it nicely proves the point I make to Dunbar that there is some sort of understanding that the real problems TWP face must not be admitted, let alone discussed/debated......

So let me put this to you Jampot, why would SL want TWP when they haven't delivered a single player or a single $dollar from any NATV deal which was what Eric Perez offered if only we would let TWP into the game here?        

Why would SL want TWP?  Because of the increased exposure that SL would get, not only from Canada, but here as well. Because it will, in time, increase interest in the sport in Canada and this may, in time, lead to decent players being produced.   As others have pointed out, this won't happen overnight, but anyone who claims to seriously have the interests of the sport at heart has to support expansion surely? Though I strongly disagree with your attitude in all of this in many ways, I actually do understand your point about the need to deliver players, but you have to give it more time.  Judge them again once they have had a few seasons in SL if they get there - Toronto is a big city with plenty of potential fans/players.

As far as inventing some point about the fixture list (odd take on things you've got, but whatever) being the only hurdle, if TWP didn't seriously expect to be allowed to enter SL then I don't see why they'd be bothering with all this in the first place!!!

[Hemi4561]

51 minutes ago, Jampot said:

I can see the point you're making, and in some ways I don't disagree with what you are saying.  However, if you asked any team, including Toronto, do you want to start the season with a long block of away matches thus in all likelihood putting yourselves under pressure in comparison to all other teams, I don't believe that any team would want that or consider that an advantage.  Quite the opposite, in fact.

That might be a valid argument except imo for the facts that at the start of the season the weather is so inclement that it is not possible to play, most of the  players are not based in the country that the team purports to be from and are in fact domiciled either in the country you wish to play your block of away games in or are antipodean so don't care in the slightest as they are 12000 miles from home and living out of a suitcase anyway.

O

P