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Wolfpack games NOT being televised


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3 minutes ago, Moove said:

Still not sure which point you're trying to debate with me. The only thing I'm disagreeing with you on is the first post where you said Perez had said he wanted to replace UK clubs with Canadian ones. Or are you disagreeing with my opinion that Perez's vision of half a dozen Canadian clubs in what is now seven and a bit years is unrealistic?

No , Perez didn't say he wanted to replace any clubs , he did say to generate a worthwhile NA broadcast contract would need 5/6 NA clubs in the competition , his solution to the obvious problem that creates was Gridiron converts , which will not happen , so we still have the problem , unless a solution to that problem can be found , then we will never see more than 2 NA clubs in SL 

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4 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Exactly. There will always be a place for clubs like Leigh, but they are not leaders/innovators. If this sport is going to thrive it needs new blood with new ideas expanding into new markets.

New idea's ? , Seriously ? , Money , beer and plenty of free tickets ? , Nothing really new or inovativ in that 

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3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

No , Perez didn't say he wanted to replace any clubs , he did say to generate a worthwhile NA broadcast contract would need 5/6 NA clubs in the competition

That's precisely what I said. I even provided the quote for it. Not sure why you're disagreeing then making exactly the same point

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6 minutes ago, Jampot said:

Untrue, plenty of sporting startups have totally lost interest after two years e.g. PSG in RL had crowds of around 1 thousand after two years, not 6-9 thousand

And plenty lose interest if they can't have a beer festival and plenty of ' freebies ' , let alone a losing team 

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2 minutes ago, Moove said:

That's precisely what I said. I even provided the quote for it. Not sure why you're disagreeing then making exactly the same point

Quote the whole of my post if you want a debate , otherwise be ignored for trying to appear clever and failing 

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Just now, GUBRATS said:

And plenty lose interest if they can't have a beer festival and plenty of ' freebies ' , let alone a losing team 

The beer festival won't be stopped and a constantly winning team is getting old. I think the vast majority would prefer competitive games, although beer sales might drop if people start watching the game more closely.

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1 minute ago, ojx said:

The beer festival won't be stopped and a constantly winning team is getting old. I think the vast majority would prefer competitive games, although beer sales might drop if people start watching the game more closely.

I was referring to the potential switch of venue mooted on here , competitive sometimes means losing , , in truth I just don't see how Toronto are going to continue without actually locating to Canada in the long term , I don't really see how being based in Manchester and playing away in Toronto is going to work long term , I'd be interested to see if any other sports clubs operate this way ?

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10 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

New idea's ? , Seriously ? , Money , beer and plenty of free tickets ? , Nothing really new or inovativ in that 

Or in your argument.

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

I was referring to the potential switch of venue mooted on here , competitive sometimes means losing , , in truth I just don't see how Toronto are going to continue without actually locating to Canada in the long term , I don't really see how being based in Manchester and playing away in Toronto is going to work long term , I'd be interested to see if any other sports clubs operate this way ?

I think, given where the players live, and the inability to play and train in Canada during the early season. This is the only logical way to do it at this point. In the future, if there was a real summer season, maybe it would be an option.

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6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

The ' interest ' being discussed was media , not internet fans 

Of this I was not aware, since you didn't specify that.

And I was given to believe the media in the UK by-and-large ignore Rugby League already. Surely a North American team playing in a top-level English competition might spark a bit of media interest.

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1 minute ago, ojx said:

I think, given where the players live, and the inability to play and train in Canada during the early season. This is the only logical way to do it at this point. In the future, if there was a real summer season, maybe it would be an option.

So you want the sport to change its season to suit a couple of clubs ? , Could happen if somebody is willing to fund it , but you are talking about a serious increase in TV funding , not happening soon IMO

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Just now, TIWIT said:

Of this I was not aware, since you didn't specify that.

And I was given to believe the media in the UK by-and-large ignore Rugby League already. Surely a North American team playing in a top-level English competition might spark a bit of media interest.

Which is the point I was making , Toronto's inclusion 2/3 years ago generated media interest , and if they make SL I'd expect that to be repeated , and again when they win the SL GF , how that will translate to increased participation , fan numbers in the UK and increased sponsorship in the UK remains to be seen 

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Just now, GUBRATS said:

Which is the point I was making , Toronto's inclusion 2/3 years ago generated media interest , and if they make SL I'd expect that to be repeated , and again when they win the SL GF , how that will translate to increased participation , fan numbers in the UK and increased sponsorship in the UK remains to be seen 

Only one way to find out. What's to lose?

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1 minute ago, SL17 said:

You won't get that changed.. There are international commitments which won't be changed to suit Candian RL.

It would require a shortening of the season SL , which could only happen with significant extra income , First 

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2 hours ago, TIWIT said:

As for McManus, just because he owns what is currently the most successful team in SL doesn't mean that he speaks for ALL of SuperLeague. When he speaks, it is, just like yours or mine, just one man's opinion 

That's utter self serving garbage. Your point is as contrived and as made up as Toronto Wolfpack themselves.

Ever since the top SL clubs decided to break from the RFL they have never had one spokesperson. All the top SL bosses have taken turns in speaking on behalf of their colleagues, none of whom have ever been in disagreement with such statements. This has excluded some smaller club chairmen like Mr. Fulton, Mr. Carter and Mr. O'Connor. No one man runs Superleague hence they do things this way. 

My points have never been refuted, Perez himself promised to develop players and find a big NA TV deal and has done neither. You and you ilk can excuse this by saying this will all take time. and fair enough - the Championship club chairmen actually voted to continue to accept the North American dream, including New York and Ottawa so you have the time in the championship. That vote surprised me, but when you consider that the Championship are to be cut adrift from SL for the next TV deal they (in desperation) want to include the phoney American clubs, in the hope it will swing them their own deal from somewhere?

Moove wins the prize for the stupidest post of the year trying to argue that the North American clubs would come into SL adding onto the existing 12 clubs. These sort of points are made ignoring facts like the attempt to ensure HKR were brought back into Superleague the other year by increasing SL to 13 clubs (as it was they won promotion). At the time the idea was dropped with Koukash declaring that this was not possible because "where would we find another 30 quality players". Lordy, if they would not increase SL for their mate Hudgell they won't do it for the Americans will they Moove - grow up man..

Nobody yet has managed to contrive some nonsense as regards the fact that SKY pay for an English Superleague that sells subscriptions to English fans in England. It's laughable they will stand by and allow American clubs to elbow English clubs off the Television. The garbage that North American clubs will forgoe TV money is another contrivance.  Again as McManus stated on behalf of Superleague scope for overseas clubs being included at all, is very limited by SKY's need for an English league - full stop.

McManus's article "Saints boss backs Toulouse over (Phoney) American clubs" became disingenuous in itself when he declared TO were producing French players, and along with Catalans could capture a French TV deal. Catalans remain a French club capable of putting out an almost non-French First team, whilst the idea of a French TV deal emanating from one french fixture seems unlikely. But the message was a loud and clear "No thanks" to North America which had Rimmer casting doubts on his signed agreement if TWP win the Championship up they go............(erm "Hopefully")......he must have read the article himself.

Argylle's self sacking and Perez's inactivity in the transfer market appear to also be signals the American dream may be coming to an end. For those who love a juicy conspiracy theory how did TWP manage to blow promotion last year? Did they know then they weren't wanted then? and will they blow promotion again to save face??.....Shurely not!!

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7 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Ever since the top SL clubs decided to break from the RFL they have never had one spokesperson. All the top SL bosses have taken turns in speaking on behalf of their colleagues, none of whom have ever been in disagreement with such statements. This has excluded some smaller club chairmen like Mr. Fulton, Mr. Carter and Mr. O'Connor. No one man runs Superleague hence they do things this way. 

What a strange league structure. I would have thought the SL Chairman, Robert Elstone, would speak on behalf of the league. After consulting with the team owners to gain a consensus of their opinion. I would suggest his silence, and that of the other owners, regarding McManus's statements, implies they do not agree with him but would prefer not to be seen arguing in public. As such, his statements are just his opinions and nothing more.

 

14 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

My points have never been refuted, Perez himself promised to develop players and find a big NA TV deal and has done neither. You and you ilk can excuse this by saying this will all take time. and fair enough - the Championship club chairmen actually voted to continue to accept the North American dream, including New York and Ottawa so you have the time. That surprised me, but when you consider that the Championship are to be cut adrift from SL for the next TV deal they (in desperation) want to include the phoney American clubs, in the hope it will swing them their own deal from somewhere?

You are making progress - at least you admit such things take time. 3 years is not a very long time. If after a couple of years in Super League TWP haven't acquired a TV deal then your point might have some validity.

17 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Moove wins the prize for the stupidest post of the year trying to argue that the North American clubs would come into SL adding onto the existing 12 clubs. These sort of points are made ignoring facts like the attempt to ensure HKR were brought back into Superleague the other year by increasing SL to 13 clubs (as it was they won promotion). At the time the idea was dropped with Koukash declaring that this was not possible because "where would we find another 30 quality players". 

For someone who claims he is always being insulted you sure toss them around. Between this and your first derogatory sentence aimed directly at me...

As for where to find another 30 quality players, I assume you'd find them the same place every other team finds them - you sign players without current contracts. Because that is why they are playing the game - to make the most money they possibly can. That's why it's called professional.

29 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Nobody yet has managed to contrive some nonsense as regards the fact that SKY pay for an English Superleague that sells subscriptions to English fans in England. It's laughable they will stand by and allow American clubs to elbow English clubs off the Television. The garbage that North American clubs will forgoe TV money is another contrivance.  Again as McManus stated on behalf of Superleague scope for overseas clubs being included at all, is very limited by SKY's need for an English league - full stop.

Again, it is merely your opinion that adding TWP to Super League will reduce SKY's interest in broadcasting the games. I hardly think they're going to send out a questionnaire to every subscriber specifically asking them if they would cancel their subscription if TWP were to replace one of the existing teams.

The next paragraph is again just McManus's opinion.

37 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Argylle's self sacking and Perez's inactivity in the transfer market appear to also be signals the American dream may be coming to an end. For those who love a juicy conspiracy theory how did TWP manage to blow promotion last year? Did they know then they weren't wanted then? and will they blow promotion again to save face??.....Shurely not!!

Argyle said something stupid and paid the price. He is still there. I can imagine the howling that would have come if he didn't step down and apologize.

Perez is still ironing out details with the stadium etc. and until that is done why would he sign players? The 2020 startup date was probably overly-optimistic, 2021 gives them time to finalize the details and find players.

And if you want to give out awards for ridiculous statements then your last couple of statements are juicy candidates. Anything can happen in a single-game playoff. Personally I hate them, much preferring best-of-xx series, as that gives a much better reading of just how good a team is. In theory, TWP can lose 2 games this season, and if the second loss is in the Grand Final then the whole season is for naught. That would definitely dampen Argyle's enthusiasm.

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Fascinating as always.

Perhaps the biggest fool in all this is David Argyle, who by falling for the Perez patter - presumably made credible by reassurances on other transatlantic clubs from the since removed Nigel Wood - has forked out millions of dollars on an impossible dream?

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2 hours ago, SL17 said:

You won't get that changed.. There are international commitments which won't be changed to suit Canadian RL.

Some might say that it shouldn't be changed for Canadian RL, but for player well being. Less can be more, see the NRL for an example.

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41 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Perhaps the biggest fool in all this is David Argyle, who by falling for the Perez patter - presumably made credible by reassurances on other transatlantic clubs from the since removed Nigel Wood - has forked out millions of dollars on an impossible dream?

An interesting take. Argyle may have fallen for Perez's marketing skills, but quickly seems to have wanted to take the Wolfpack in a different direction.

He must indeed be pouring in bucket loads of money, although there are rumours of other more silent investors. I'm not sure we can make too many presumptions about what reassurances were given out by the RFL, but they have provisionally approved Ottawa and NY.

That said, it does seem an improbable dream. I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

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1 hour ago, ojx said:

An interesting take. Argyle may have fallen for Perez's marketing skills, but quickly seems to have wanted to take the Wolfpack in a different direction.

He must indeed be pouring in bucket loads of money, although there are rumours of other more silent investors. I'm not sure we can make too many presumptions about what reassurances were given out by the RFL, but they have provisionally approved Ottawa and NY.

That said, it does seem an improbable dream. I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

Regarding Ottawa, I read a while back that they are apparently having a big launch sometime in your summer, so I expect we will hear something between now and the end of August hopefully.

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On 05/07/2019 at 16:04, The Parksider said:

Discuss/debate?...anyone??

Discuss/Debate?....Anyone?

Please stick to the rules gents and please stop avoiding the key point of the debate??

Parky, both I and TheReaper have disputed your posts and answered your call to discuss/debate. Either you can't answer or logic and historical facts have got the better of you. It's kind of ironic that the person calling for discussion and debate and for people to join reality goes quiet or puts people on ignore.

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10 hours ago, SL17 said:

That "nonsense" was made up by you,..

I couldn’t be bothered reading after that. Parky is correct there are far too many living in a dream world! 

Perez did say it and promised the earth.

 

 

9 hours ago, Moove said:

This is what Perez actually said...

"We are looking to make Super League the most commercially viable competition, apart from the Premiership, that plays in the northern hemisphere.

To do that you need to have more North American markets, at least five or six clubs in the next 10 years."

No mention of whether that was by actively removing English clubs or by expansion.

Care to back and read the rest now @SL17 ?

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8 hours ago, Big Picture said:

In fairness to Parksider, if those are additional clubs then a lot more TV money would be needed to fund increased payments to each of the clubs involved.  Even 50% more in total would only mean the same as they get now if it's split 18 ways instead of 12.  And without more money to spend on players, where and how would 50% more players with the required skill level be recruited?

That's what I mean about "in between phase". Yes, adding more clubs needs more money to work. This was always the key, hard to navigate step, one that takes years. More clubs takes more money... can't earn more money without enough of those new clubs. Can't get people playing in new countries interested without a reason to get interested... can't stock those clubs without new player sources. 

It's a series of catch-22's, or having three legs and trying to step forward with all of them at the same time.

If it was easy it would have been done by now.

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