Moove Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 6 hours ago, The Parksider said: Moove wins the prize for the stupidest post of the year trying to argue that the North American clubs would come into SL adding onto the existing 12 clubs I didn't claim that at all. Yet again you're resorting to personal insults rather than having an adult conversation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 9 hours ago, The Parksider said: That's utter self serving garbage. Your point is as contrived and as made up as Toronto Wolfpack themselves. Ever since the top SL clubs decided to break from the RFL they have never had one spokesperson. All the top SL bosses have taken turns in speaking on behalf of their colleagues, none of whom have ever been in disagreement with such statements. This has excluded some smaller club chairmen like Mr. Fulton, Mr. Carter and Mr. O'Connor. No one man runs Superleague hence they do things this way. My points have never been refuted, Perez himself promised to develop players and find a big NA TV deal and has done neither. You and you ilk can excuse this by saying this will all take time. and fair enough - the Championship club chairmen actually voted to continue to accept the North American dream, including New York and Ottawa so you have the time in the championship. That vote surprised me, but when you consider that the Championship are to be cut adrift from SL for the next TV deal they (in desperation) want to include the phoney American clubs, in the hope it will swing them their own deal from somewhere? Moove wins the prize for the stupidest post of the year trying to argue that the North American clubs would come into SL adding onto the existing 12 clubs. These sort of points are made ignoring facts like the attempt to ensure HKR were brought back into Superleague the other year by increasing SL to 13 clubs (as it was they won promotion). At the time the idea was dropped with Koukash declaring that this was not possible because "where would we find another 30 quality players". Lordy, if they would not increase SL for their mate Hudgell they won't do it for the Americans will they Moove - grow up man.. Nobody yet has managed to contrive some nonsense as regards the fact that SKY pay for an English Superleague that sells subscriptions to English fans in England. It's laughable they will stand by and allow American clubs to elbow English clubs off the Television. The garbage that North American clubs will forgoe TV money is another contrivance. Again as McManus stated on behalf of Superleague scope for overseas clubs being included at all, is very limited by SKY's need for an English league - full stop. McManus's article "Saints boss backs Toulouse over (Phoney) American clubs" became disingenuous in itself when he declared TO were producing French players, and along with Catalans could capture a French TV deal. Catalans remain a French club capable of putting out an almost non-French First team, whilst the idea of a French TV deal emanating from one french fixture seems unlikely. But the message was a loud and clear "No thanks" to North America which had Rimmer casting doubts on his signed agreement if TWP win the Championship up they go............(erm "Hopefully")......he must have read the article himself. Argylle's self sacking and Perez's inactivity in the transfer market appear to also be signals the American dream may be coming to an end. For those who love a juicy conspiracy theory how did TWP manage to blow promotion last year? Did they know then they weren't wanted then? and will they blow promotion again to save face??.....Shurely not!! On the bit in red, we've tolerated your increasing arrogance, bitterness and abuse over anything outside of your narrow interpretation of what's good for rugby league. No more. Post civilly or go to another forum that'll put up with it. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 12 hours ago, GUBRATS said: And plenty lose interest if they can't have a beer festival and plenty of ' freebies ' , let alone a losing team How do you know that, have you asked them, done a psychiatric profile of all of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 8 hours ago, dkw said: How do you know that, have you asked them, done a psychiatric profile of all of them? It's called opinion , maybe one day you'll find one of your own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 13 hours ago, Moove said: I didn't claim that at all. Yet again you're resorting to personal insults rather than having an adult conversation Adult conversations ? , Like where you only quote half of a post to make it look like somebody agrees with you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 13 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: It's called opinion , maybe one day you'll find one of your own How can you state a fact but claim its an opinion? You're really quite dim aren't you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, dkw said: How can you state a fact but claim its an opinion? You're really quite dim aren't you. As I said , one day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Funkhouser Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 hour ago, scotchy1 said: If people go to the rugby for a beer and a hotdog and the tshirt cannons and cheerleaders and everything else. So what. Who cares. people watching RL and putting money in its coffers is a good thing. Their motivations dont make their money worth more One of RLs biggest problems is the gatekeepers who think it's their responsibility to make sure certain fans are pure. We dont need fewer fans going just to one or two or three games. We dont need fewer fans going just to the big events. We dont need fewer fans who go without a massive connection to the sport we need millions more. People seem to forget that at one stage they went to their first game, they weren't that bothered, they only watched on TV or only kept an eye out for the scores. We need to realise that there is a progression. A funnel. We need a broad base of ambivalent and to make some of those interested and to make some of those fairweather fans, and some of those fans, and some of those saddos who post on forums, and some of those hardcore weirdos for whom it is their life. We seem to have that outlook entirely upside down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moove Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 hours ago, GUBRATS said: Adult conversations ? , Like where you only quote half of a post to make it look like somebody agrees with you ? Apologies. I genuinely read the bit I quoted as a sentence, looking back it's clear it wasn't. No offence intended and I certainly wasn't trying to be clever - failed miserably if I did anyway. 23 hours ago, GUBRATS said: No , Perez didn't say he wanted to replace any clubs , he did say to generate a worthwhile NA broadcast contract would need 5/6 NA clubs in the competition , his solution to the obvious problem that creates was Gridiron converts , which will not happen , so we still have the problem , unless a solution to that problem can be found , then we will never see more than 2 NA clubs in SL Correct. I don't see there being Gridiron conversions either (IIRC Argyle even said they weren't looking to do that any more). Canadian RU conversions could have been (and might still be) a more sensible approach but I've no idea whether they're even looking at that, my personal preference is that they focus on grassroots but that would make Perez's original timescales even less likely. I also said in an earlier post that I don't see multiple Canadian teams in SL being particularly realistic anytime soon. There's no guarantee that there will even be one yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted July 10, 2019 Author Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 hour ago, scotchy1 said: If people go to the rugby for a beer and a hotdog and the tshirt cannons and cheerleaders and everything else. So what. Who cares. people watching RL and putting money in its coffers is a good thing. Their motivations dont make their money worth more One of RLs biggest problems is the gatekeepers who think it's their responsibility to make sure certain fans are pure. We dont need fewer fans going just to one or two or three games. We dont need fewer fans going just to the big events. We dont need fewer fans who go without a massive connection to the sport we need millions more. People seem to forget that at one stage they went to their first game, they weren't that bothered, they only watched on TV or only kept an eye out for the scores. We need to realise that there is a progression. A funnel. We need a broad base of ambivalent and to make some of those interested and to make some of those fairweather fans, and some of those fans, and some of those saddos who post on forums, and some of those hardcore weirdos for whom it is their life. We seem to have that outlook entirely upside down. Bums in the seats, that's all that matters. Why they are is almost irrelevant. As long as they enjoy themselves they'll be back, and bring some friends. That's how you grow the game. And the more full the stands are the better it looks on TV. Of course winning helps too, but that goes without saying, as it should be ultimate goal of every sports team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fighting irish Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 17 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: No no, we are wrong. Only the pure fans really count. The ones who are basically a walking four yorkshiremen sketch desperate to tell you how they attended back in 68 when they had to sit on broken glass in 8ft of snow and drink the blood of phoenix to get in, but they were still there. These people wanting to have a good time. They don't know their born. You are starting to sound like Oxford! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 20 hours ago, Moove said: Apologies. I genuinely read the bit I quoted as a sentence, looking back it's clear it wasn't. No offence intended and I certainly wasn't trying to be clever - failed miserably if I did anyway. Correct. I don't see there being Gridiron conversions either (IIRC Argyle even said they weren't looking to do that any more). Canadian RU conversions could have been (and might still be) a more sensible approach but I've no idea whether they're even looking at that, my personal preference is that they focus on grassroots but that would make Perez's original timescales even less likely. I also said in an earlier post that I don't see multiple Canadian teams in SL being particularly realistic anytime soon. There's no guarantee that there will even be one yet. That was my point , Eric Perez fully understands the issues that stand in the way of NA expansion , he knows that the SL owners won't reduce the UK numbers past 10 , most likely SKY as well , meaning SL has to expand numbers wise to accommodate them , so while he also knows that any NA teams might be able to finance themselves until a genuine paying deal is on the cards , that means they have to find players so as not to dilute the competition , probably why he has already stated the OttAwa has to be done differently In fact Eric Perez would probably be agreeing with Parky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jampot Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 On 09/07/2019 at 23:41, GUBRATS said: And plenty lose interest if they can't have a beer festival and plenty of ' freebies ' , let alone a losing team OK, but the point that you choose to ignore to suit your argument is that the beer isn't free, so therefore folks are paying into the coffers, and also they are actually getting off their asses to go and see the TWP games to a damn sight greater extent than any of the other Championship teams can manage whatever tactics/promotion/whatever they attempt, or more likely, don't. Go on, make the argument that it's better to have a crowd of around 400 with no 'freebies' than a crowd of 5,6,7,8 thousand with 'freebies', I dare you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, Jampot said: OK, but the point that you choose to ignore to suit your argument is that the beer isn't free, so therefore folks are paying into the coffers, and also they are actually getting off their asses to go and see the TWP games to a damn sight greater extent than any of the other Championship teams can manage whatever tactics/promotion/whatever they attempt, or more likely, don't. Go on, make the argument that it's better to have a crowd of around 400 with no 'freebies' than a crowd of 5,6,7,8 thousand with 'freebies', I dare you The point I was making was in relation to the rumoured take over and move , what they have achieved at Lamport is truly fantastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Parksider Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 13 hours ago, GUBRATS said: That was my point , Eric Perez fully understands the issues that stand in the way of NA expansion , he knows that the SL owners won't reduce the UK numbers past 10 , most likely SKY as well , meaning SL has to expand numbers wise to accommodate them , so while he also knows that any NA teams might be able to finance themselves until a genuine paying deal is on the cards , that means they have to find players so as not to dilute the competition , probably why he has already stated the OttAwa has to be done differently. In fact Eric Perez would probably be agreeing with Parky Yes thanks for the name check and in reply that's spot on. With respect to all, people still try to reason TWP are a success because of anything they can think of from what they wear on the pitch to what they sell in the beer tents, and now the argument is bums on seats even though many seat tickets are free, but the reality is expansion is about players and TV money Perez accepts this, so I don't see an argument here?. Perez walked away from TWP with the major stated aim at Ottawa being to develop players, "as long as it takes". In truth he didn't get anyone playing much from his first efforts starting 2010 resurrecting Canada RL at the grassroots, to his grid iron conversions. So we are in his tenth year of his efforts to get people playing RL in Canada at all, let alone playing to Superleague level. Despite 10 years of failure he predicts it's going to happen in the next 10-15 years, but you know yourself that he needs to get literally thousands playing seriously to find that small percentage of players that can cut it as professionals, which is why I didn't see the Georgia Griffins as a reason to put TWP into Superleague. The reason not to put TWP in is also because the current TV money is based on having an English League as you say. Mr. Perez very much controls the agenda at interviews that are often a free ride to say what he wants, but beyond him trying to extend his timescale for developing professionals to 25 years (given he started his efforts in 2010) there is the matter of developing enough pro players not for one club but for enough Superleague level NA teams to be able to get a Canada TV deal. This is all as you would probably admit rather impossible to do, but nobody is going to kick either TWP or Ottawa out as the Championship has already agreed to keep these clubs under their wing. It's merely a matter of are these clubs to be allowed into Superleague without offering anything to the TV deal or player pool? McManus says no, so we are in pretty authoratative company . McManus also points out that there is "already a route to over a hundred semi-pro union clubs in north america" Union got there first and stitched the whole thing up for themselves. How could Perez ever break that? His record shows he can't. But I think you in particular, and others really have the main reason why this isn't working, and that is the immense cost of running a Transatlantic club. There is no doubt it needs $Millionaires in numbers happy to throw $Millions away every year for much longer than Mr. Perez's wishful thinking 10-15 years. Even the only $Millionaire+ that actually exists who is a rabid Australian RL fan doesn't want to spend any more money by developing juniors. The best chance would have been on the back of a world cup there but for me the whole dream died when that was pulled. The reality is that ten years on nobody wants to play RL in Canada, nobody wants to pay to televise it in Canada, and no Canadians want to throw $Millions away year on year on Rugby League in Canada. But hey - people like us who fairly hold an alternative view, could be wrong couldn't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 More disingenuous copy and paste comedy gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBone Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Not sure how many of you have listened to the 5 Live podcast entitled "The NRL's most wanted". The guests are Shane Richardson (former CEO of a number of RL clubs inc Gateshead and South Sydney Rabbitohs) and Mark Evans (former CEO of Melbourne Storm and Harlequins Rugby). They discuss amongst other things the topic of SL expansion. I found it interesting, particularly the bit about setting up a new franchise, what happened at Gateshead and London, and Mark Evans thoughts on his involvement with Boston and the wider possibilities in NA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 hour ago, TBone said: Not sure how many of you have listened to the 5 Live podcast entitled "The NRL's most wanted". The guests are Shane Richardson (former CEO of a number of RL clubs inc Gateshead and South Sydney Rabbitohs) and Mark Evans (former CEO of Melbourne Storm and Harlequins Rugby). They discuss amongst other things the topic of SL expansion. I found it interesting, particularly the bit about setting up a new franchise, what happened at Gateshead and London, and Mark Evans thoughts on his involvement with Boston and the wider possibilities in NA. I did. Possibly the most salient point in relation to this thread is Toronto getting “laughed out of the room” if they want a TV deal without more NA clubs. As Super League has spoken about a quota of three foreign clubs - and Toulouse is favoured to join Catalans - where does that leave TWP’s plans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Man of Kent said: - and Toulouse is favoured to join Catalans - By who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 minute ago, dkw said: By who? See umpteen Parky posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said: See umpteen Parky posts! I'd rather not, embarrassing that your basing anything on something written by that buffoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Just now, dkw said: I'd rather not, embarrassing that your basing anything on something written by that buffoon. I fear he might have the last laugh, my friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Man of Kent said: I fear he might have the last laugh, my friend Stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBone Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 24 minutes ago, dkw said: Stop it. Listen to the podcast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 minute ago, TBone said: Listen to the podcast. Why, who from SL officially states they want Toulouse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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