Wolfpack games NOT being televised

[Gav Wilson]

Side note: York City Knights have 8 league games left this season - 2 of them are at home...

[Dave T]

We need to be careful not to be disingenuous in this discussion. We aren't just talking home and away in a regular sense. Saints playing an away game at Warrington the other night isnt exactly a massive undertaking. They can have a regular training week, sleep in their own beds and all the rest of it, including a quick 20 minute bus journey.

But let's look at an extreme example of TWP playing home games in three blocks. That would likely mean that they have a travel disadvantage only two times in the season (when they have to travel more than their opposition), but would have travel advantage 10 times in the season. 

Most clubs wouldn't get that in reverse as TWP would just be based in the UK for those pools of games.

Imo that isnt a massive deal, although my preference would be short blocks of 3 games to even it out as much as possible, but it is wrong to suggest that this is all pretty standard and a nothing point. It is something that needs to be considered, but it is certainly not rocket science to resolve.

[The Parksider]

59 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Some people don't like Toronto and don't want them in the competition. They  view the game as something  they own and interlopers like Toronto coming in somehow, seems pretty sad and small to me but it doesn't really matter.

I'm not sure why we aren't just honest about that rather than pretending it's a reasonable and heartfelt position based on a deep and abiding love of alternating home and away fixtures 

Terrible, wind-up post. The "owners" of Superleague who make the decisions about who they have in their league may have over egged the rejection pudding with the "fixtures" comment but the main ingredients were what they always were, from the day Perez promised to bring more quality RL players from North America into the playing pool and bring high level paying NATV deals as well whom clubs here could share. This remains what "some people" still require from TWP.

Now let's type the part that those who just dream about the future, filter out of their brains and that is there isn't a single player developed nor any development system in place, and the proposed NA grid iron conversion system collapsed. No NATV deal of any kind was forthcoming, and the failure in this area was compounded by TWP actually paying SKY to be on TV.  

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'm a supporter of what TWP are doing and what they represent, but I am getting a bit bored of the arrogance on show on some of these  threads

I'm thoroughly bored of you, your mate above and 18 others on here who refuse to get it that on their own measures TWP have completely failed. "Arrogance" is far more applicable to people who take a position that TWP are somehow the saviours of RL here, yet when they fail to deliver anything but a rich Aussie who wants a club in his own backyard, they won't concede that it just didn't work out.

What is it do you think "TWP are doing?" My take is they are indeed just trying to blag their owner his own Superleague club in his back yard. It's so patently obvious isn't it?

10 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

If English Rugby League wants to promote their product in NA, they better get with the program.  

I'm afraid "English Rugby League" were most delighted to welcome TWP into the ranks here, the programme being bring us new quality RL players to add to the player pool here and bring us a big paying NATV contract. That was the programme agreed by both sides and sadly Perez and Argylle never got on with the programme to deliver players and TV money.....

No doubt Damian and Davo5 will be along to moan that I am saying the same old thing, but guess what? As many times as I have said it, the key points about the actual deal for them to be let in has been roundly ignored by guys like you five......  

Scotchy's claim they aren't wanted in the competition is more contrived nonsense, the dispute/debate is all about whether they should take a place in the flagship competition of SL when they offer nothing at all to it. The championship and all fans I know are most welcoming that they, and any more like them, carry on in that secondary competition until they can maybe one day offer Superleague something of substance rather than a dream?.

All five of you named are welcome to reply to my actual point, what do they offer Superleague? Make it a first guys......

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Terrible, wind-up post. The "owners" of Superleague who make the decisions about who they have in their league may have over egged the rejection pudding with the "fixtures" comment but the main ingredients were what they always were, from the day Perez promised to bring more quality RL players from North America into the playing pool and bring high level paying NATV deals as well whom clubs here could share. This remains what "some people" still require from TWP.

Now let's type the part that those who just dream about the future, filter out of their brains and that is there isn't a single player developed nor any development system in place, and the proposed NA grid iron conversion system collapsed. No NATV deal of any kind was forthcoming, and the failure in this area was compounded by TWP actually paying SKY to be on TV.  

I'm thoroughly bored of you, your mate above and 18 others on here who refuse to get it that on their own measures TWP have completely failed. "Arrogance" is far more applicable to people who take a position that TWP are somehow the saviours of RL here, yet when they fail to deliver anything but a rich Aussie who wants a club in his own backyard, they won't concede that it just didn't work out.

What is it do you think "TWP are doing?" My take is they are indeed just trying to blag their owner his own Superleague club in his back yard. It's so patently obvious isn't it?

I'm afraid "English Rugby League" were most delighted to welcome TWP into the ranks here, the programme being bring us new quality RL players to add to the player pool here and bring us a big paying NATV contract. That was the programme agreed by both sides and sadly Perez and Argylle never got on with the programme to deliver players and TV money.....

No doubt Damian and Davo5 will be along to moan that I am saying the same old thing, but guess what? As many times as I have said it, the key points about the actual deal for them to be let in has been roundly ignored by guys like you five......  

Scotchy's claim they aren't wanted in the competition is more contrived nonsense, the dispute/debate is all about whether they should take a place in the flagship competition of SL when they offer nothing at all to it. The championship and all fans I know are most welcoming that they, and any more like them, carry on in that secondary competition until they can maybe one day offer Superleague something of substance rather than a dream?.

All five of you named are welcome to reply to my actual point, what do they offer Superleague? Make it a first guys......

Bore off troll.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

What does it really matter? its not even 'not a big issue' its not an issue at all. If Toronto want to play all their home games in one block so what? The idea this has any meaningful impact is just silly. 

People complain at Toronto playing blocks because its Toronto. Its a bad faith argument that has no real bounds in reality. If they played alternately home and away then there would just be something else to complain about. Its not because of the playing in blocks these people complain about Toronto. They complain because they don't like them and this is an invented issue is just another stick to beat them with. Its not something anyone really cares about and should be roundly ignored. 

If there is a TV deal in Canada, and Sky are happy to do it. Toronto should play all their home games in one block in the summer at 7pm and everything else just falls in around that. We are a professional sport, when it sells. 

Well I think your idea of playing in one block is a terrible one and I'm not a TWP hater.

But as long as you say its not an issue I suppose it ain't.

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Fair enough, so we sell on broadcast rights to Canada and Sky, we make money from these rights. All played in summer as part of the "Rugby League Summer Saturdays" when the football isn't on, 13 weeks of double headers on Saturday evenings. 

What foul fate befalls us for this terrible idea?

 

I'm not going to join you in yet another tedious debate where you go on and on whilst ignoring points people make.

I'm surprised you didnt mention Buzzfeed.

[Niels]

1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

You're mistaken about SKA St Petersburg in the KHL.  As you can see here, they generally had alternating groups of home stands and road trips and in the middle of the season they had a 7-match road trip followed by a 6-match home stand.  The New England Patriots didn't alternate home-and-away weekly last year either.

The Patriots are this year.  Alternating isn't an exact weekly science either. 

https://www.patriots.com/news/patriots-2019-schedule-announced

Regarding the KHL I accept your point though it is different as it contains teams from many countries. 

Certainly Edinburgh don't play blocks and I wouldn't like it if they did. 

As Dave says being opposed to playing in blocks isn't any reflection on a like or dislike of Toronto. I enjoy watching them on tv but I like them playing alternate  home and away as much as possible. I think road trips and blocks soon get boring. 

 

 

[CanadianRugger]

4 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'm a supporter of what TWP are doing and what they represent, but I am getting a bit bored of the arrogance on show on some of these  threads. Just because somebody doesn't believe in 'road-trips' as the way forward does not make them a flat-capper or a neanderthal, or any of the other slurs being thrown around. 

TWP have applied and joined the UK's RL pyramid - that is the starting point. Being, frankly, quite rude about people who don't want to bend over backwards for one team is out of order. I wouldn't go to sombodies party and start telling them that they need to rearrange the furniture, play different music and put on different food, and call them backwards and old fashioned if they didn't listen. The manner of discussion on here is appalling, and I'm pretty certain that the club themselves are not acting this brash. It seems ok to bash the more traditional views quite aggressively on here, but I'd encourage people to act with a little more humility and class tbh.

Onto the actual suggestion, my personal view is that it seems pretty workable. I don't think the blocks of home and away games need to be much more than 3 weeks or so tbh, apart from maybe the start of the season where weather may be an issue, but there may be other workable solutions to deal with that too. That solution shouldn't involve Toronto playing home games in London or Halifax for example. 

But let's not paint all this as a no-brainer, we will need to be creative, and people will need to buy into it, I am on board with this, but let's not belittle the views of those who are less accommodating of major changes. 

I only toss flak at people who quite frankly deserve it.  The only thing appalling on this board is the misinformation and false narratives about TWP that get generated here daily.

I enjoy watching TWP, I'm 4000km West of Toronto at the moment but still watch all their games. They are good value for entertainment but I wouldn't be upset if they folded tomorrow.  I can get my League fix through the NRL, we have an upstart Rugby Union competition here which is growing very quickly with one Canadian team and hopefully more soon.  I can also watch as much CFL, NFL, MLB and NHL.  

What's my point?  The net beneficiary of TWP is English Rugby League.  If English Rugby League doesn't want us, the team will fold and no Canadian will pay any attention to Rugby League anymore.  It's that simple. 

[CanadianRugger]

Double post

[CanadianRugger]

Double post

[Hemi4561]

7 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

I only toss flak at people who quite frankly deserve it.  The only thing appalling on this board is the misinformation and false narratives about TWP that get generated here daily.

I enjoy watching TWP, I'm 4000km West of Toronto at the moment but still watch all their games. They are good value for entertainment but I wouldn't be upset if they folded tomorrow.  I can get my League fix through the NRL, we have an upstart Rugby Union competition here which is growing very quickly with one Canadian team and hopefully more soon.  I can also watch as much CFL, NFL, MLB and NHL.  

What's my point?  The net beneficiary of TWP is English Rugby League.  If English Rugby League doesn't want us, the team will fold and no Canadian will pay any attention to Rugby League anymore.  It's that simple. 

Your sense of superiority is underwhelming.

[Big Picture]

7 hours ago, Niels said:

The Patriots are this year.  Alternating isn't an exact weekly science either. 

https://www.patriots.com/news/patriots-2019-schedule-announced

Regarding the KHL I accept your point though it is different as it contains teams from many countries. 

Certainly Edinburgh don't play blocks and I wouldn't like it if they did. 

As Dave says being opposed to playing in blocks isn't any reflection on a like or dislike of Toronto. I enjoy watching them on tv but I like them playing alternate  home and away as much as possible. I think road trips and blocks soon get boring.

Even there the Patriots aren't alternating every week.  Instead they have two away matches in a row part way through the season and finish with two successive home matches like last year.  Buffalo's 2019 schedule looks a lot New England's 2018 schedule in terms of then they're at home and when they're away.

[Niels]

34 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Even there the Patriots aren't alternating every week.  Instead they have two away matches in a row part way through the season and finish with two successive home matches like last year.  Buffalo's 2019 schedule looks a lot New England's 2018 schedule in terms of then they're at home and when they're away.

Its impossible logistically to arrange a symmetrical fixture list without teams having some home and away games in a row. 

There are always swap weeks. 

I personally don't like the concept of block fixtures as I think it gives a team an advantage. 

My solution for the health of the Toronto players woild be to alternate home games between Toronto and Manchester. 

I would be interested what you think. I don't know if you are a Toronto fan but I enjoyed watching them at Batley on Sunday and the "home" game at Hull KR.

[Omott91]

Adapt or die. Humans learnt this very early on. If we didn't adapt to the changing conditions we didn't last long. It's the perfect metaphor of Super league. If they don't adapt to the changing conditions ie NA expansion and the influx of international teams then Super league"s future looks bleak imo. 

[TIWIT]

Baseball teams generally play a week to ten days at home then the same on the road. NBA and NHL teams the same, just not playing every day although back-to-back games and 3-in-5 nights are common. Road trips can and do take teams back and forth across the continent.

[CanadianRugger]

32 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Baseball teams generally play a week to ten days at home then the same on the road. NBA and NHL teams the same, just not playing every day although back-to-back games and 3-in-5 nights are common. Road trips can and do take teams back and forth across the continent.

What I find most interesting is you will show people they are wrong and they will continue to argue with you.  

They also have Divisions in North America that are based around geographic regions.  You play more games against teams in your division than you do against other teams.

A road trip in the NHL will usually be to another Division when you will play a couple of games against that Divisions teams.

The system works, cuts down on player fatigue and allows teams to play 80+ games a season.

 

[CanadianRugger]

4 hours ago, Niels said:

Its impossible logistically to arrange a symmetrical fixture list without teams having some home and away games in a row. 

There are always swap weeks. 

I personally don't like the concept of block fixtures as I think it gives a team an advantage. 

My solution for the health of the Toronto players woild be to alternate home games between Toronto and Manchester. 

I would be interested what you think. I don't know if you are a Toronto fan but I enjoyed watching them at Batley on Sunday and the "home" game at Hull KR.

But then it's not a Toronto team, it's a Manchester team. No Canadians are going to buy season tickets to a team that plays "half" its home games away from home.

[Niels]

1 hour ago, CanadianRugger said:

What I find most interesting is you will show people they are wrong and they will continue to argue with you.  

They also have Divisions in North America that are based around geographic regions.  You play more games against teams in your division than you do against other teams.

A road trip in the NHL will usually be to another Division when you will play a couple of games against that Divisions teams.

The system works, cuts down on player fatigue and allows teams to play 80+ games a season.

 

Regarding your first paragraph I didn't want to say out of politeness. However I did show you that you were wrong about the Pro 14 which I am sure others picked up on. I dont want toj hoist by your own petard

Additionally my point isn't that US teams don't partake road trips, though clearly some such as the Patriots are not this year.

My point is that the European, African, South American , Asia systems of fixtures are better. Road trips are a North American concept adopted because of the size and distance. It shouldn't be imposed on other leagues because of one team.

In the football premier league (soccer), managers scrutinise the fixture list and shout loudly if a rival has even a one day advantage. They would never accept road trips which give a side an enormous edge.

With all respect Rugby league isn't a Mickey mouse sport that has to forego all its principles and adopt American concepts of fixtures. Would you seriously be happy winning the league being the only side with the huge advantage of block fixtures? 

Regarding your other post about season tickets the price would reflect the number of games. They played home games in England this year. Also could Toronto rotate players for games in England to avoid players flying for consecutive weeks.

It won't be an issue for my team next season anyway, unless you bottle (only joking) the play off final again. 

At least you didn't mention envy or dislike of Toronto etc. I've watched them enough times to feel I can be entitled to make a point. 

[TIWIT]

2 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

But then it's not a Toronto team, it's a Manchester team. No Canadians are going to buy season tickets to a team that plays "half" its home games away from home.

Although Tampa and Montreal are talking about sharing a baseball team. I don't think anyone outside of Montreal takes it seriously.

[CanadianRugger]

1 hour ago, Niels said:

Regarding your first paragraph I didn't want to say out of politeness. However I did show you that you were wrong about the Pro 14 which I am sure others picked up on. I dont want toj hoist by your own petard

Additionally my point isn't that US teams don't partake road trips, though clearly some such as the Patriots are not this year.

My point is that the European, African, South American , Asia systems of fixtures are better. Road trips are a North American concept adopted because of the size and distance. It shouldn't be imposed on other leagues because of one team.

In the football premier league (soccer), managers scrutinise the fixture list and shout loudly if a rival has even a one day advantage. They would never accept road trips which give a side an enormous edge.

With all respect Rugby league isn't a Mickey mouse sport that has to forego all its principles and adopt American concepts of fixtures. Would you seriously be happy winning the league being the only side with the huge advantage of block fixtures? 

Regarding your other post about season tickets the price would reflect the number of games. They played home games in England this year. Also could Toronto rotate players for games in England to avoid players flying for consecutive weeks.

It won't be an issue for my team next season anyway, unless you bottle (only joking) the play off final again. 

At least you didn't mention envy or dislike of Toronto etc. I've watched them enough times to feel I can be entitled to make a point. 

But Rugby League is a mickey mouse sport, it barely pays a living wage.  Ice Hockey, which requires ice to play on, is 100x more popular world wide which is laughable considering most countries don't have a climate conducive to it.  

A Canadian can make more money playing Ice Hockey in the UK than a Rugby League player can make playing for half the teams in the Championship, that's saying something about the quality of product you are putting out.

[Oxford]

20 hours ago, Dave T said:

Just because somebody doesn't believe in 'road-trips' as the way forward does not make them a flat-capper or a neanderthal, or any of the other slurs being thrown around.

Well there is a case for saying that's exactly what it makes them, Dave. But you make a good point.

I am also very aware of the attempts I've made to show this and it's attracted insults from those very people.

The thing is we all know they love TGG as much as we do but they also represent a real negative influence over everything new. They do react to things and people who support them in a very depressing way. I firmly believe that the negative impulse in RL is one of the reasons we have not made more headway.

Having said all that the forum would be no fun without them and everything would sound like the Jeremy Corbyn echo thread.

SO as a warning to you all be careful what you wish for .....

 

 

Substitute TGG for political and think on't!

[The Parksider]

17 hours ago, Dave T said:

Bore off troll.

So this is the level you stoop to when your caught out in the debate? The board rules are if you can't stand debate with an individual use the ignore button. But you don't do that, boasting that your open minded. But your not are you? You said you could "See what TWP were doing and what they represent" ..................They represent a rich Australian who want's his own Superleague club in his own back yard 3,000 miles away from here regardless of the logistics, and in response SL bosses have said they are doing nothing in terms of adding anything to the competition here, no extra players no TV money. What they are doing is dressing up a squad of SL level players from here as a Canadian team and claiming this is expansion......   

Discuss/debate?...anyone??

17 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'm not going to join you (Scotchy) in yet another tedious debate where you go on and on whilst ignoring points people make.

But your going on and on and ignoring the points I make Dave? They promised to develop players and seek TV deals to expand the game three years ago and have done neither of the things they said they would do, and Mr McManus has  now called them out for this and stated a preference for Toulouse. Rimmer stated there was a signed up agreement between the RFL and SL the winner of the Championship would go up, but added "Hopefully" whilst Argyle effectively stepped down from running TWP on the back of an incident he appeared to engineer himself? Meanwhile Ottawa's 2020 entry stalls as no players are signed....

Discuss/Debate?....Anyone?

16 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

I only toss flak at people who quite frankly deserve it.  What I find most interesting is you will show people they are wrong and they will continue to argue with you.    The net beneficiary of TWP is English Rugby League.  If English Rugby League doesn't want us, the team will fold and no Canadian will pay any attention to Rugby League anymore.  It's that simple. 

I think you give people flak, because you aren't face to face with a group of open minded people. Your hidden behind your keyboard in your bedroom and you can ignore the realities of Argylle stepping down in the face of a failure to produce anything tangible to add the the game here whilst Ottawa stall. That's the view of several SL bosses who see no "net benefit"  in fact quite the reverse if they take an SL place off a club that produces players and underpins the TV contract. Now show me "where I am wrong"

You toss flak at me like the rest of them because I dare to disagree with your dream and question it. You do it because you can. Come over here to a TWP game and lets all sit down and debate things face to face? Gentlemen to Gentleman?? Let's have Damian and Davo5 in there as well then we can discuss how every time I state TWP add nothing to the game here just take away, they hide behind the idea I have said this before so why repeat it?

Well the answer is because none of you want to answer the question, just disparage the person asking it. Your "toss flak"?

Please stick to the rules gents and please stop avoiding the key point of the debate??

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, CanadianRugger said:

But Rugby League is a mickey mouse sport, it barely pays a living wage.  Ice Hockey, which requires ice to play on, is 100x more popular world wide which is laughable considering most countries don't have a climate conducive to it.  

A Canadian can make more money playing Ice Hockey in the UK than a Rugby League player can make playing for half the teams in the Championship, that's saying something about the quality of product you are putting out.

So why are you interested in it ?

[dkw]

9 hours ago, Hemi4561 said:

Your sense of superiority is underwhelming.

In what way? 

[Dave T]

54 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Well there is a case for saying that's exactly what it makes them, Dave. But you make a good point.

I am also very aware of the attempts I've made to show this and it's attracted insults from those very people.

The thing is we all know they love TGG as much as we do but they also represent a real negative influence over everything new. They do react to things and people who support them in a very depressing way. I firmly believe that the negative impulse in RL is one of the reasons we have not made more headway.

Having said all that the forum would be no fun without them and everything would sound like the Jeremy Corbyn echo thread.

SO as a warning to you all be careful what you wish for .....

 

 

Substitute TGG for political and think on't!

The problem is there is no room for a discussion in the middle ground, not unlike the politics threads as you allude to.

Discussing logistics around how a team on the other side of the world would fit into SL is a perfectly reasonable discussion. I don't see even the slightest bit of controversy around saying there are logistical issues that need to be discussed and agreed.

But on one side we have 13 home games in a row and everyone else work around it, and on the other we have not give an inch of concession and they should play home and away including when they have 6ft of snow.

One side thinks road trips are  a huge issue, one thinks it isnt an issue even worth discussing so kills debate dead by calling people flatcappers.

The solutions will I invariably come from discussions in the middle ground, they need to be allowed to be had