GUBRATS Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 The problem lies with Toronto , ultimately they are the club on another continent , even Catalans playing a block of games isn't a genuine issue for them or the other UK clubs So a solution needs to be found that neither hinders them or gives them an unfair advantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbruce Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: The problem lies with Toronto , ultimately they are the club on another continent , even Catalans playing a block of games isn't a genuine issue for them or the other UK clubs So a solution needs to be found that neither hinders them or gives them an unfair advantage Yes they start their home games a bit later due to the weather and then play in blocks of two or three games it’s really not that difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, bobbruce said: Yes they start their home games a bit later due to the weather and then play in blocks of two or three games it’s really not that difficult. Indeed, but the solutions being put forward here are long road trips or 13 home games on the bounce - positioned as perfectly normal, without issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 15 minutes ago, bobbruce said: Yes they start their home games a bit later due to the weather and then play in blocks of two or three games it’s really not that difficult. Not saying it is , but still expect the other clubs to complain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Dave T said: Indeed, but the solutions being put forward here are long road trips or 13 home games on the bounce - positioned as perfectly normal, without issue. In this, as in so much else, we should look to the Southern Combination Football League where Bexhill United do not have access to their ground at the beginning of the season. So they play their first five matches away from home. They then play mostly in a home and away week/week set up but with occasional double blocks to get them to an even season. Then, because there's a danger they won't have access at the very end of the season, their final two games are away. But mostly it's a home and away season with some allowance built in that they will start with away games and integrate the rest. It really doesn't seem to be difficult. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 3 hours ago, CanadianRugger said: But Rugby League is a mickey mouse sport, it barely pays a living wage. Ice Hockey, which requires ice to play on, is 100x more popular world wide which is laughable considering most countries don't have a climate conducive to it. A Canadian can make more money playing Ice Hockey in the UK than a Rugby League player can make playing for half the teams in the Championship, that's saying something about the quality of product you are putting out. What a load of nonsense, that is before you get to the very odd selective comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 2 hours ago, The Parksider said: Please stick to the rules gents and please stop avoiding the key point of the debate?? Please take your own advice then and write about the topic rather than just copying and pasting the same post on every thread regardless of the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 2 hours ago, The Parksider said: Discuss/debate?...anyone?? I attempted to discuss the Wolfpack impact on Super League/UK League with you on the 22nd of June (quoting you) and you didn't bother reacting or responding. Why are you claiming now that no-one wants to discuss or debate these issues with you? "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moove Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 40 minutes ago, Damien said: What a load of nonsense, that is before you get to the very odd selective comparisons. To be fair he's probably not far off with the ice hockey salary comparison. Usually in the £20-40k range I believe but the better players can be a fair bit higher. Bit difficult to tell with Championship salaries given every club has a different salary cap but I can't imagine your Swinton's or Rochdale's paying more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clogiron Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 If playing alternating home and away games and not playing a block of games away is a prerequisite of being in SL, why, as I have stated before, are the 3 clubs in SL who play at Soccer stadiums allowed to do exactly that every year while pitch work takes place? I thougt it was ironic that Wigan were moaning about the sand on the newly laid pitch at Shuddersford the other week, when they are kept away from the DW at the drop of a hat,, or cup tie. Like much else in SL/RFL the rules bend to fit whoever needs them, or shouts the loudest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, Moove said: To be fair he's probably not far off with the ice hockey salary comparison. Usually in the £20-40k range I believe but the better players can be a fair bit higher. Bit difficult to tell with Championship salaries given every club has a different salary cap but I can't imagine your Swinton's or Rochdale's paying more than that. Making a comparison between a highly paid import in the top tier of the EIHL and restricting it to a comparison to just half of clubs in Rugby League's 2nd tier is nonsense. It's like comparing Blake Austin's salary to a lowly paid player on 20k at Fife Flyers. Well actually it's worse than that but I couldn't even tell you what Ice Hockey's 2nd tier is. Even if we were being selective for the Championship I'd be certain that a Championship player like Ricky Leutele gets comfortably more than any EIHL player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moove Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, Damien said: Making a comparison between a highly paid import in the top tier of the EIHL and restricting it to a comparison to just half of clubs in Rugby League's 2nd tier is nonsense. It's like comparing Blake Austin's salary to a lowly paid player on 20k at Fife Flyers. Well actually it's worse than that but I couldn't even tell you what Ice Hockey's 2nd tier is. Even if we were being selective for the Championship I'd be certain that a Championship player like Ricky Leutele gets comfortably more than any EIHL player. Maybe so, but you said it was nonsense before you got to the selective comparison. Or were you referring to the comparison in popularity bit? Apologies if so, although he probably has a point on that too. Whether any of it is relevant to the topic at hand is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, scotchy1 said: Because they are perfectly normal and without issue, many sports play in blocks. We often play in blocks. At pro level it doesnt cause any issues. Could you provide any links to comps that allow one team to play all their home games in one block compared to more regular approach for every other team? We don't do long blocks or road-trips as standard in SL. It is more common in competitions with large distances to travel, but that is common across the many teams in a competition. It is a different issue when it is only one team that is subject to this approach, it is why it needs discussing. And of course it causes some issues, you just don't deem those issues important, which is your prerogative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, Moove said: Maybe so, but you said it was nonsense before you got to the selective comparison. Or were you referring to the comparison in popularity bit? Apologies if so, although he probably has a point on that too. Whether any of it is relevant to the topic at hand is another matter. The very first line describes Rugby League as a Micky Mouse sport. That is nonsense. It barely pays a living wage? Plenty of players across the world earn a living wage Rugby League. More nonsense. Ice Hockey 100x more popular, really? By what measure? There are around 200 countries in the World and Rugby League is certainly bigger than Ice Hockey in a fair few. It actually only needs to be bigger in more than 2 for that statement to be false. More nonsense. The rest I've pretty much already covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, scotchy1 said: There has been no cogent or convincing argument that these are really issues outside of some people deciding all of a sudden alternating fixtures are an important issue. We cant complain that RL struggles when such a small an unimportant issue with a million easy solutions becomes some insurmountable hurdle. You are taking the Donald Trump approach of shouting anyone down who says anything you disagree with again. Nobody has said it is an insurmountable hurdle, in fact the majority of posters have given their view of what the solution should be. It is just that people have different views of what the solution is. The most common one seems to be to accommodate the early season weather issue by staging away games (although I'd support TWP taking games on the road in North America as a solution for a game or two) - and then staging blocks of 3 or so games home and away. I'm not sure why you are so keen to shut down any discussion on this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, Dave T said: You are taking the Donald Trump approach of shouting anyone down who says anything you disagree with again. Nobody has said it is an insurmountable hurdle, in fact the majority of posters have given their view of what the solution should be. It is just that people have different views of what the solution is. The most common one seems to be to accommodate the early season weather issue by staging away games (although I'd support TWP taking games on the road in North America as a solution for a game or two) - and then staging blocks of 3 or so games home and away. I'm not sure why you are so keen to shut down any discussion on this point. Why three? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Clogiron said: If playing alternating home and away games and not playing a block of games away is a prerequisite of being in SL, why, as I have stated before, are the 3 clubs in SL who play at Soccer stadiums allowed to do exactly that every year while pitch work takes place? I thougt it was ironic that Wigan were moaning about the sand on the newly laid pitch at Shuddersford the other week, when they are kept away from the DW at the drop of a hat,, or cup tie. Like much else in SL/RFL the rules bend to fit whoever needs them, or shouts the loudest It has never been a pre-requisite of being in SL, but we are talking slightly different things here. Hull FC have a max of 3 Away games in one block. The rest will be 1's or 2's just like every other team. Wigan have exactly the same. Hudds have a max of two like any other team. None of them have staged more than 2 home games on the bounce. EDIT: just had a quick scan and I don't think any team in SL plays more than 2 league home games on the bounce at any stage of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, Man of Kent said: Why three? "Three or so" - just a personal feel that it feels reasonable - all other clubs regularly have two home games on the bounce, I think it is reasonable to try and attempt to reduce player welfare issues and costs from travelling by giving slightly more leeway without affecting the integrity of your season structure. I have no issues if that is 2 some times, and 4 others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 23 minutes ago, Dave T said: "Three or so" - just a personal feel that it feels reasonable - all other clubs regularly have two home games on the bounce, I think it is reasonable to try and attempt to reduce player welfare issues and costs from travelling by giving slightly more leeway without affecting the integrity of your season structure. I have no issues if that is 2 some times, and 4 others. Two’s possibly enough. After all, they are based in Manchester. They won’t want long road trips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 55 minutes ago, Dave T said: It has never been a pre-requisite of being in SL, but we are talking slightly different things here. Hull FC have a max of 3 Away games in one block. The rest will be 1's or 2's just like every other team. Wigan have exactly the same. Hudds have a max of two like any other team. None of them have staged more than 2 home games on the bounce. EDIT: just had a quick scan and I don't think any team in SL plays more than 2 league home games on the bounce at any stage of the year. How did Wigans fixtures go when they had to play several away games at the start of a season a while back? I expect they had to play a load of home games back to back at some time but cant honestly remember. In the lower leagues its common for fixtures to be ridiculously lop sided, Ive seen Workington go a whole month without a home game which obviously put the finances under pressure. We then asked the RFL to never do that again, but as expected they just totally ignored it and did it again the following season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Dunbar said: I attempted to discuss the Wolfpack impact on Super League/UK League with you on the 22nd of June (quoting you) and you didn't bother reacting or responding. Why are you claiming now that no-one wants to discuss or debate these issues with you? Its one of his pathetic little things, does it every time and unfortunately it usually ends with the thread then being closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Just now, dkw said: How did Wigans fixtures go when they had to play several away games at the start of a season a while back? I expect they had to play a load of home games back to back at some time but cant honestly remember. In the lower leagues its common for fixtures to be ridiculously lop sided, Ive seen Workington go a whole month without a home game which obviously put the finances under pressure. We then asked the RFL to never do that again, but as expected they just totally ignored it and did it again the following season. not sure which season that was, but Leeds had a block of away games this year - they seem to try and blend them out with 2 home, 1 away, 2 home etc. So you will get 4 home games out of 5, but it is split with a home game. TBH I was surprised that no teams had more than 2 in one block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddleworth Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 42 minutes ago, Dave T said: not sure which season that was, but Leeds had a block of away games this year - they seem to try and blend them out with 2 home, 1 away, 2 home etc. So you will get 4 home games out of 5, but it is split with a home game. TBH I was surprised that no teams had more than 2 in one block. The TV games involving Toronto against part time lower teams does nothing for our game, IMO. Boring, one sided displays. No disrespect for the opposition, but they do not stand a cat in hells chance. Just a training run out for Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fighting irish Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 30 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Im not trying to shut down discussion on this point but there is a simple, fundamental question about it that that needs to be answered before any other. Why is it a problem if a team play in one block or a small number of blocks rather than a generally alternating home and away fixture list? I have yet to hear a good cogent argument that says we need to have generally alternating fixtures. Nobody seems to be able to make one. Until they do this whole discussion is a list of solutions in search of a problem. Until someone can make a good argument of why playing in blocks is a problem. It isn't a problem. You say here your solution is blocks of 3 or so games home and away, why 3? why not 4? or 5? or 10? or 13? what happens when its more games that makes it bad? What makes it acceptable at 3? I'd like to better understand the motivation to prevent them playing in blocks too. Why is it a problem to you folks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 38 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Until someone can make a good argument of why playing in blocks is a problem. It isn't a problem. You say here your solution is blocks of 3 or so games home and away, why 3? why not 4? or 5? or 10? or 13? what happens when its more games that makes it bad? What makes it acceptable at 3? 7 minutes ago, fighting irish said: I'd like to better understand the motivation to prevent them playing in blocks too. Why is it a problem to you folks? I have already said why I am not supportive of inessential blocks that are too long. You may not agree with why I have a problem with them, that is your prerogative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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