Are York SL ready?

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

3 hours ago, TheConductor said:

Great place to watch Rugby League and enjoy cheap pubs as few Samuel Smiths around and lovely and historic place to visit.

Yep.... If they could build up to SL status then having the kudos of a fine city like York would be a boon for the top flight. If we drop this year then York is an away fixture I'll definitely be at.... Will tell her indoors we are away for a romantic historical weekend away then boom it'll be binge drinking Championship rugby watching at Bootham Crescent instead of romantic strolls by the Ouse

[Tommygilf]

To be fair the game below Super League is basically invisible 75% of the time.

[longboard]

4 hours ago, spanishknight said:

About 4 years ago the Knights did D/R with Hull and last year we were with Rovers, last year on my hols I was talking to a Saints fan, he had never heard of Batley I said where do you think Walmsley came from, local amateur he said,  says it all really.

Walmsley, the man who came from ............... "nowhere."

Who described him thus?

[Harry Stottle]

14 hours ago, Scubby said:

The problem is that for the last decade we have allowed rules, regulations and structures to slide that much that no one has anything to measure things by any longer. We have teams playing on park pitches with no comeback, teams allowed to run out with 13 or 14 players in the second tier of professional RL and no recourse. Grounds that were deemed not fit for SL 10-15 years ago, still operating in SL.

The whole thing is a mess which means it is almost impossible to single out one club over another for not "complying" with regulations.

Totally agree, that is exactly why the game should be under one umbrella with a CEO strong enough to wipe the slate clean and produce a "day one" of going forward.

In my opinion there has been and to quote your words let "regulations and structures slide" than a collection of people who are the present Chairmen of SL clubs (Mr Hetherington excluded) should deem it necessary to break away from the national governing body of the sport in this country, there is no bigger indictment as to the failure of those who have been the Marshall's of our sport for a number of years now than having two controling bodies.

[Harry Stottle]

14 hours ago, AB Knight said:

Just to clarify, this guy had spent 30 odd years as a traffic officer before going self employed as a van driving instructor, very nice guy and seemed intelligent, but admitted he didn’t follow the sport outside of SL. Lived in Hull and just came across here to do tests so you can see how he might not be aware of York RL.

I think you’d all be surprised. I talk now and again to a few mates I used to go to Cas matches with, I’ll tell them I’m going to Swinton or Oldham and they’ll say ‘oh I didn’t know they still had a team’ or something similar. I think in SL fans are so engrossed in following their team that they don’t realise there are some teams outside of the top tier with great potential. 

On a similar note I’d be hard pressed to tell you much about the amateur scene. I know of a few clubs (York Acorn, Cas Lock Lane) and that’s about it.

 

Really AB, this is something I have banged on about for a long time, the amatuer game is the thing that spawns this great game of ours the game cannot survive without it, I am sure a lot of people believe there is a magic tree secreted away somewhere on which RL players are grown.

I have witnessed for a long time the decline in the popularity and the growing apathy in the direction of the "amatuer scene" in this country, that is in those who wish to participate and those who administer the clubs or even those who merely go along just for the enjoyment of watching Rugby League.

The snowball of decline that is travelling downhill is gathering momentum very quickly and if steps to reverse those 3 factions in the "amatuer scene" are not given a good dose of looking at the sport in this country will be lucky to survive as we know it in another 3 or so generations.

As I said I have made comment to this matter numerous times on these pages and apart from the odd comment no one seems to give a flying one, is it ignorance or apathy of the subject I don't know, but just watch if someone starts a thread re club shirts witness 500+ replies!

I would wager there are those on these pages offering criticisms of those who do not know of the existence of some semi-pro Rugby League clubs who have never set foot on an amateurs ground for a very very long time, if at all. 

[Harry Stottle]

9 hours ago, longboard said:

Walmsley, the man who came from ............... "nowhere."

Who described him thus?

Some R'sole on Sky.

[Lowdesert]

15 hours ago, AB Knight said:

Just to clarify, this guy had spent 30 odd years as a traffic officer before going self employed as a van driving instructor, very nice guy and seemed intelligent, but admitted he didn’t follow the sport outside of SL. Lived in Hull and just came across here to do tests so you can see how he might not be aware of York RL.

I think you’d all be surprised. I talk now and again to a few mates I used to go to Cas matches with, I’ll tell them I’m going to Swinton or Oldham and they’ll say ‘oh I didn’t know they still had a team’ or something similar. I think in SL fans are so engrossed in following their team that they don’t realise there are some teams outside of the top tier with great potential. 

On a similar note I’d be hard pressed to tell you much about the amateur scene. I know of a few clubs (York Acorn, Cas Lock Lane) and that’s about it.

 

If your not involved with the amateur scene why should you?  They haven’t got marketing budgets the level of Leeds, theyre community clubs.  Not a crime to not know that either.  

Apart from Acorn, Heworth have about 12 teams, New Earswick All Blacks have a decent set up too and there are also the Locos, but I think they’re going through a tough time.

YCK are doing some great work with the schools.

[spanishknight]

James Ford has turned down the assistant coaches Job at H.K.R. he would then take over as their head coach in a year or so, he has a job to do at York and hes not finished it, well done James and thank you.

[RP London]

15 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

Fairfolly, I think I'm probably with you - I couldn't tell you where exactly Sheffield play even if you put a gun to my head. That said there is Google  

But my point is that I have actually heard of Sheffield Eagles. I do know that there is a team in Sheffield! This guy claims to not know that York even has a team, despite being a 'fan' of another Rugby League team

ok let me put you all out of you're collective misery... we play at the Olympic Legacy Park which is on the same site as the Old Don Valley Stadium... its not a tough one to fine and most people in Sheffield know where it is.. knowing about Eagles on the other hand is a longer journey. 

[paulwalker71]

11 minutes ago, RP London said:

ok let me put you all out of you're collective misery... we play at the Olympic Legacy Park which is on the same site as the Old Don Valley Stadium... its not a tough one to fine and most people in Sheffield know where it is.. knowing about Eagles on the other hand is a longer journey. 

In that case I do know how to find it. Went there for that legendary match in 1997 when we sealed the League (in the day when winning the league actually mattered)

[fairfolly]

Same here, I certainly know where the old Don Valley Stadium was , been there several times but I am afraid I did not know they played there now.The last ground I knew they played at was on the Chesterfield boundary somewhere but never knew they had moved back to the Don Valley.That is why I referred to them playing on a park pitch somewhere in Sheffield.

[RP London]

1 minute ago, fairfolly said:

Same here, I certainly know where the old Don Valley Stadium was , been there several times but I am afraid I did not know they played there now.The last ground I knew they played at was on the Chesterfield boundary somewhere but never knew they had moved back to the Don Valley.That is why I referred to them playing on a park pitch somewhere in Sheffield.

(bit in bold) which, without being disrespectful, is why its best to fact check before making statements of that sort as it could get heckles up when the club are working and have worked very hard to secure more than that in the city.. 

Its back to the site of it, at the moment it is still a bit of a "park pitch" in terms of not having any permanent stands etc.. but the plans are in and building work should be started by now (I was up by the site last week and didnt see anything but i didnt look hard as I was there to look around the new National Centre for Food Excellence which I have been involved in).. there is huge growth at the site with the Sheffield Hallam Department of Health and Wellbeing building a new building there, the National Centre for Food Excellence (a SHU department) and also a school (the Oasis Academy) built there.. There is a lot of money going into the area and the "stadium" which they will share with Sheffield United Ladies looks very nice once it is built. 

Eagles struggle to make an impact in the city but this weekend we had the National Boldering Championships in the city centre with a full Cliffhanger event, in a couple of weeks the city hosts the Invictus UK games (qualifying for the GB team for the international games) and I expect that to be well supported. Sheffield is a general sporty city now and people tend to turn up in good numbers to events. Eagles need to tap into that once their home is sorted and attract people to it, they dont need that many to make it work and talking to alot of people in the Union world they would happily go and watch (many are travelling to Coventry or Leicester to watch top level union matches happily) and I think they could do ok for the level they are at. They may even be able to sustain a Super League presence at some point. Without a lot of money thought they will not be a force, but down the line another challenge cup may be possible one day, as with many clubs middle and bottom of SL if the draw falls right.

but i massively digress from the topic and I totally agree with you earlier that York and Sheffield at this very moment are similar in where they are looking but i think York are a few years ahead of Sheffield in their development.

[longboard]

4 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Some R'sole on Sky.

No.

Try again. 

[deluded pom?]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

This is true, I have mates in leeds and wakefield who know who the rhinos are, have been to headingley or belle vue or the jungle and will come to internationals but wouldnt know dewsbury had a team. They know wigan but not Leigh and couldnt tell you the difference between hull fc and hull KR. 

People overestimate how many RL fans are really hardcore 

You don't need to be hardcore. I find the fact that your mates, as alleged fans of SL teams, can't differentiate between Hull and Hull KR simply ridiculous. It's like a fan of a Premier League team not being able to tell the difference between Tottenham and Arsenal.

[deluded pom?]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

But it's not really at all. The premiership has a much bigger cultural presence. I go a couple of times a year to watch yorkshire in the t20s, I couldnt name you all the counties, I've been a few times to watch the sheffield Steelers, the only other ice hockey team I could think of is belfast.

So your mates aren't actually RL fans as such. They, like you with cricket and ice hockey, go once in a while.

[fairfolly]

RP,

           Thanks for the info. Sheffield has always been a very sporty city. Mainly Soccer,but lots of cricket and also big on athletics.Unfortunately R.L. has never made it in the city and I would think that boat has now sailed especially as now the game gets virtually no publicity in main news papers,T.V. etc and the youth of today have lots more to entertain them with Computer games etc,etc.I do not know about now but when I was working I had three lads from Sheffield work for me and they said there was no schools rugby ,no youth rugby in the city and indeed they had no interest in R.L. never seen a game and knew nothing about the game.That may have changed now but I doubt it very much.I think we will see further devastating decisions coming in the future that will weigh heavily on some Championship clubs and practically all League 1 clubs.Hopefully not, but the signs are not very good.

[yipyee]

On 07/07/2019 at 01:12, Wellsy4HullFC said:

You don't want your club to be in the top level of rugby league in this country?

They would be competing at the bottom end and not top?

[HarrogateKnights]

On ‎07‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 08:30, Hopping Mad said:

There's no knowing how many York residents, most of whom are not attracted to second tier rugby league, would enjoy watching Super League. Be interesting to find out. Potentially, there's a big audience in and beyond the city.

During this season we have been trying to attract the people of Harrogate to watch York games. We are getting a growing fan base and have monthly meetings with a q&a from a player/Coach. There is big potential in North Yorkshire from Scarborough to Settle etc.  

[Hopping Mad]

7 minutes ago, HarrogateKnights said:

During this season we have been trying to attract the people of Harrogate to watch York games. We are getting a growing fan base and have monthly meetings with a q&a from a player/Coach. There is big potential in North Yorkshire from Scarborough to Settle etc.  

Agreed. There can't be many rugby league clubs with a catchment the size of York's.

[Simon Hall]

1 hour ago, yipyee said:

They would be competing at the bottom end and not top?

That's what they said about us playing in the Championship...

[RP London]

1 hour ago, fairfolly said:

RP,

           Thanks for the info. Sheffield has always been a very sporty city. Mainly Soccer,but lots of cricket and also big on athletics.Unfortunately R.L. has never made it in the city and I would think that boat has now sailed especially as now the game gets virtually no publicity in main news papers,T.V. etc and the youth of today have lots more to entertain them with Computer games etc,etc.I do not know about now but when I was working I had three lads from Sheffield work for me and they said there was no schools rugby ,no youth rugby in the city and indeed they had no interest in R.L. never seen a game and knew nothing about the game.That may have changed now but I doubt it very much.I think we will see further devastating decisions coming in the future that will weigh heavily on some Championship clubs and practically all League 1 clubs.Hopefully not, but the signs are not very good.

Happy to keep the discussion with Sheffield going as long as others on the thread dont mind, otherwise happy to chat to you off line if people arent.. 

I will caveat all the below though, as i have been misunderstood before on this, i do look at it with slightly more positivity than some because I think there is a good positive to it, however,  I do realise it could all go t*ts up and it could all not work.

I am 41 born and brought up in Sheffield (with 3 years at uni and 7 in London but always going back at holidays etc) so I have seen a lot change, I played Youth Rugby Union in Sheffield but I know that it did disappear for a while. Attitudes and how Sheffield has changed its image through those years has been amazing to watch and they have done a good job for the most part. I was there in 98 for the challenge cup final and went when i could to Don Valley and was disappointed when they didnt make the most of it, but the city was quite different then with its attitude to anything that wasnt football.

County Cricket has gone from the city now due to Yorkshire not playing at out grounds which is ridiculous but is the way it has gone. Major Athletics has not been in Sheffield for a while (the whole Don Valley debacle of non reinvestment of funds from athletics meaning the stadium was not fit for purpose compared to other newer stadiums or refitted stadiums and so no new athletics meaning no more money to invest etc.. hence the end of Don Valley). But Sheffield is still "sports mad" (british Indoor champs used to be sold out for the 2 days etc) and is styling itself the "outdoor city" and is really pushing that angle, gateway to the Peaks, big on Climbing etc but also cycling and any other sport that pops up. 

This sort of thing means that if Eagles wanted to push itself there is a bit of an open door and partnering with some of these initiatives will give it some appeal but also reach. This was never there before but could be used now, certainly more than it is. 

There is growing Youth Rugby of both codes. The club i coach at, that my boy plays at, didnt have a youth set up until about 5 years ago, it now has good numbers at age groups for under 7 through to u13/14 (and each year that number, of course, is growing) and there is a fantastic company (RuggerEds) that is going into the schools at young ages teaching Tag Rugby. At the last schools tournament they ran there were about 25 schools from the city region all with at least one team at infants (some with more), at the Junior level there were about 12. There is also a company called EVO Rugby that runs some great courses and classroom based instruction for Rugby, and last week had some England RL performance staff there, apparently, as they want to look at some kids to academies (Cas, Wakey and Fev were all mentioned apparently, I was not there but i was sought out on sunday as the "leaguie" on the coaching staff by one of the dads asking me what i thought for his son who was there). 

In terms of League, Sheffield Hawks and Sheffield Forgers are playing senior rugby and the Hawks have junior teams again and building, the Chairman of the club (who i played with when i played there and is hugely passionate about the game and the club) was on the Our League app podcast apparently last week, I am not sure what was said as i havent had a chance to listen as yet. 

Rugby is definitely growing in the city, more schools seem to want to play it from what i can tell and people are showing more interest. Football will always dominate the city and there is no getting away from that, but League doesnt need 30k or even 10k turning up but a few thousand would be brilliant. 

Eagles need to push themselves more, though arguably they have to be careful not to put people off with the facilities before the new ground is properly there. There is a lot of help within the city that can be used by them to do this too if they want to. 

They can only control what is in their hands but I would say strategically they are doing things right, and the view has to be long term. It could all fall apart around them but things are massively changing. There will always be people in the city who dont know they exist, my daughter plays waterpolo for the city of sheffield mini monsters (she is 8 ) but people dont know that sheffield have a waterpolo team, there will be those that dont know we have a very good basketball side or a good hockey team etc but we do. People can be blinkered on their own sport but equally, as mentioned, we really dont need many to come along. What we need is general awareness for people and to get them to go along.

At the moment I wouldnt know when they were playing except i am interested so look at BBC or (as the kids both have season tickets) the fixture booklet i have. The Steelers on the other hand have an electronic billboard advert that changes weekly with their fixture on on the main route out of the city centre to Rotherham, Meadowhall and the M1 Jct 33/34 which is also the direction to the Arena from the city centre. You cant help but know if you go out that way.. Eagles could easily do the same in the summer months when the steelers arent playing and use the same deal with them etc. 

There is so much they are not doing, however, that is a good thing in a way. There is a lot of underlying movement in Sheffield with a growth in both codes (or rebirth for some) the key is to build on top of that. Can they do it? who knows but, certainly from what those 3 people you know said, times have changed, Eagles just need to change a bit of the knowledge at the top.

As I say it could all go phhht and I am not blind to that, but equally it is not as bleak as some (not you) will make out IMHO

[fairfolly]

RP,

         That is good to know,that is the way forward for me, get the kids interested in whichever sport you choose and that sport has every chance of prospering.Ignore the grass roots and that sport will die. I have to say I have nothing but admiration for "Tubby" Aston for sticking at it through good times and bad.Just at the moment they are going o.k. but seem to be on a bad run at the moment.It seems to me that the merger that brought (Shuddersfield ) was the death knell for the club but Tubby persevered and hopefully will get the fruits of his labour.

[RP London]

26 minutes ago, fairfolly said:

RP,

         That is good to know,that is the way forward for me, get the kids interested in whichever sport you choose and that sport has every chance of prospering.Ignore the grass roots and that sport will die. I have to say I have nothing but admiration for "Tubby" Aston for sticking at it through good times and bad.Just at the moment they are going o.k. but seem to be on a bad run at the moment.It seems to me that the merger that brought (Shuddersfield ) was the death knell for the club but Tubby persevered and hopefully will get the fruits of his labour.

yep thats a pretty fair assessment i think.

[yipyee]

2 hours ago, Simon Hall said:

That's what they said about us playing in the Championship...

Not having a pop! 

Just saying to jump 2 divisions in 2 years would be a bridge too far and if you were to compete near the bottom it may undermine all the good work so far! 

IMO this is what happened to Crusaders 

[Canis Lupus]

Any club being promoted from the championship this year would need to have extra quality added to their squads. Toronto have pretty much walked it this year but their squad is not deep enough. Given injuries and suspensions during a season they would struggle to remain truly competitive without new SL quality players. Nice as it may be to see York up there in the second spot a second promotion this term may be a step too far if they wish to be promoted and consolidate rather than be struggling .