latchford albion Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 19 hours ago, longboard said: Walmsley, the man who came from ............... "nowhere." Who described him thus? 10 hours ago, Harry Stottle said: Some R'sole on Sky. 6 hours ago, longboard said: No. Try again. James Roby. "I'm a traditionalist and I don"t think you'd ever see me coaching an Australian national side!" Lee Radford, RLW March 2016 Proud to be a member of the TRL woke claque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfolly Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 The only Championship club that would have half a chance of surviving in S.L. is Toronto. Even then with this present team they might win 4 or 5 games and that would be it. To stay up they will need at least another 10 quality players.I sincerely hope Bradford Bulls do not get close to promotion this season or even next. A top 5 position would be a fantastic effort to me but promotion,forget it, unless of course we have a multi millionaire lurking in the background.I would imagine the good people of York would feel exactly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Nash Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 3 hours ago, RP London said: Happy to keep the discussion with Sheffield going as long as others on the thread dont mind, otherwise happy to chat to you off line if people arent.. I will caveat all the below though, as i have been misunderstood before on this, i do look at it with slightly more positivity than some because I think there is a good positive to it, however, I do realise it could all go t*ts up and it could all not work. I am 41 born and brought up in Sheffield (with 3 years at uni and 7 in London but always going back at holidays etc) so I have seen a lot change, I played Youth Rugby Union in Sheffield but I know that it did disappear for a while. Attitudes and how Sheffield has changed its image through those years has been amazing to watch and they have done a good job for the most part. I was there in 98 for the challenge cup final and went when i could to Don Valley and was disappointed when they didnt make the most of it, but the city was quite different then with its attitude to anything that wasnt football. County Cricket has gone from the city now due to Yorkshire not playing at out grounds which is ridiculous but is the way it has gone. Major Athletics has not been in Sheffield for a while (the whole Don Valley debacle of non reinvestment of funds from athletics meaning the stadium was not fit for purpose compared to other newer stadiums or refitted stadiums and so no new athletics meaning no more money to invest etc.. hence the end of Don Valley). But Sheffield is still "sports mad" (british Indoor champs used to be sold out for the 2 days etc) and is styling itself the "outdoor city" and is really pushing that angle, gateway to the Peaks, big on Climbing etc but also cycling and any other sport that pops up. This sort of thing means that if Eagles wanted to push itself there is a bit of an open door and partnering with some of these initiatives will give it some appeal but also reach. This was never there before but could be used now, certainly more than it is. There is growing Youth Rugby of both codes. The club i coach at, that my boy plays at, didnt have a youth set up until about 5 years ago, it now has good numbers at age groups for under 7 through to u13/14 (and each year that number, of course, is growing) and there is a fantastic company (RuggerEds) that is going into the schools at young ages teaching Tag Rugby. At the last schools tournament they ran there were about 25 schools from the city region all with at least one team at infants (some with more), at the Junior level there were about 12. There is also a company called EVO Rugby that runs some great courses and classroom based instruction for Rugby, and last week had some England RL performance staff there, apparently, as they want to look at some kids to academies (Cas, Wakey and Fev were all mentioned apparently, I was not there but i was sought out on sunday as the "leaguie" on the coaching staff by one of the dads asking me what i thought for his son who was there). In terms of League, Sheffield Hawks and Sheffield Forgers are playing senior rugby and the Hawks have junior teams again and building, the Chairman of the club (who i played with when i played there and is hugely passionate about the game and the club) was on the Our League app podcast apparently last week, I am not sure what was said as i havent had a chance to listen as yet. Rugby is definitely growing in the city, more schools seem to want to play it from what i can tell and people are showing more interest. Football will always dominate the city and there is no getting away from that, but League doesnt need 30k or even 10k turning up but a few thousand would be brilliant. Eagles need to push themselves more, though arguably they have to be careful not to put people off with the facilities before the new ground is properly there. There is a lot of help within the city that can be used by them to do this too if they want to. They can only control what is in their hands but I would say strategically they are doing things right, and the view has to be long term. It could all fall apart around them but things are massively changing. There will always be people in the city who dont know they exist, my daughter plays waterpolo for the city of sheffield mini monsters (she is 8 ) but people dont know that sheffield have a waterpolo team, there will be those that dont know we have a very good basketball side or a good hockey team etc but we do. People can be blinkered on their own sport but equally, as mentioned, we really dont need many to come along. What we need is general awareness for people and to get them to go along. At the moment I wouldnt know when they were playing except i am interested so look at BBC or (as the kids both have season tickets) the fixture booklet i have. The Steelers on the other hand have an electronic billboard advert that changes weekly with their fixture on on the main route out of the city centre to Rotherham, Meadowhall and the M1 Jct 33/34 which is also the direction to the Arena from the city centre. You cant help but know if you go out that way.. Eagles could easily do the same in the summer months when the steelers arent playing and use the same deal with them etc. There is so much they are not doing, however, that is a good thing in a way. There is a lot of underlying movement in Sheffield with a growth in both codes (or rebirth for some) the key is to build on top of that. Can they do it? who knows but, certainly from what those 3 people you know said, times have changed, Eagles just need to change a bit of the knowledge at the top. As I say it could all go phhht and I am not blind to that, but equally it is not as bleak as some (not you) will make out IMHO Well said. The game in South Yorkshire is getting stronger all the time. Toll Bar, Bentley and Moorends have thriving Juniors who are starting to produce very good open age players. The next couple of years will prove very fruitful for both the Dons and the Eagles I feel. The World Cup is the opportunity our region needs now and needs to be taken advantage of. Exciting times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellsy4HullFC Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 5 hours ago, yipyee said: They would be competing at the bottom end and not top? Says who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfolly Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Wellsy, Says common sense.There is only 1 club in the Championship that could hope to compete and even then they would need another 10 quality players. They have the money behind them to do it. None of the other clubs in the Championship do,unless as I previously posted any of them has a multi millionaire hiding in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfolly Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Rob, I hope you are correct but nobody knows yet what is going to happen to the Championship and League 1 at the end of the season. Let us just hope it is not to late for these thriving junior clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 hour ago, fairfolly said: Wellsy, Says common sense.There is only 1 club in the Championship that could hope to compete and even then they would need another 10 quality players. They have the money behind them to do it. None of the other clubs in the Championship do,unless as I previously posted any of them has a multi millionaire hiding in the background. Salary Cap? You are aware that if TWP get shut of players still contracted for next year that any monies those players are paid in respect of terminating their contracts will still count on the cap, they have either been very savvy in the buisness sense and a number of lets say their SL fringe quality standard player's have contracts terminating at the end of the '19 season, or they are going to have to run with mainly the squad they have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrogateKnights Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 8 hours ago, Hopping Mad said: Agreed. There can't be many rugby league clubs with a catchment the size of York's. Biggest county in England by land mass area but only 1 professional Rugby League club and 2 professional football clubs so competition is limited but it has downfalls with population size. York has a population of approx 100,000 less than Bradford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longboard Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 5 hours ago, latchford albion said: James Roby. In one. Give that man a carrot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 14 hours ago, Canis Lupus said: Any club being promoted from the championship this year would need to have extra quality added to their squads. Toronto have pretty much walked it this year but their squad is not deep enough. Given injuries and suspensions during a season they would struggle to remain truly competitive without new SL quality players. Nice as it may be to see York up there in the second spot a second promotion this term may be a step too far if they wish to be promoted and consolidate rather than be struggling . to be fair thats where London have struggled. First team and with a fair wind they can match top end teams but a few injuries or a couple of off days and the team just doesnt have the ability to interchange or carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 12 hours ago, Rob Nash said: Well said. The game in South Yorkshire is getting stronger all the time. Toll Bar, Bentley and Moorends have thriving Juniors who are starting to produce very good open age players. The next couple of years will prove very fruitful for both the Dons and the Eagles I feel. The World Cup is the opportunity our region needs now and needs to be taken advantage of. Exciting times. yes looking wider than just purely Sheffield there are also Derne Valley who are riding high at under 12 IIRC in their league against Lock Lane et al. The world cup could be great, I know loads of people who dont even have what you would call a "passing interest" in Rugby League but as soon as I mention we have a world cup match are all over it... "let me know when tickets go on sale" etc.. The RFL HAVE to take heed of the sort of noise that is made in non heartlands areas when internationals etc are mentioned.. or top level games. I am sure York will also see in their new ground with the world cup, if we are both in good positions with good teams (and sheffield with their new ground too) then there is no reason they cannot drive forward off locals going to see top level international games. The hardest part will be the gap between the end of the world cup an the beginning of the season and keeping interest up but thats what a marketing and advertising campaign can do on social media and Direct mail etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfolly Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Harry, Is there still going to be a salary cap next season as a fair few clubs seem to want it scrapping? Also what about special dispensation for Toronto.Would not be surprised in the least with either of these decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 11 hours ago, Harry Stottle said: Salary Cap? You are aware that if TWP get shut of players still contracted for next year that any monies those players are paid in respect of terminating their contracts will still count on the cap, they have either been very savvy in the buisness sense and a number of lets say their SL fringe quality standard player's have contracts terminating at the end of the '19 season, or they are going to have to run with mainly the squad they have now. as you and I both know there are ways and means. If you are just to terminate their contract then you would have to pay it off, but you could "transfer" the player for a nominal fee to another cub... all sorts of ways of getting around this problem. Not necessarily easy but can be done (can even pay the other club to take them at a lower amount than the termination would cost etc).. where there is a will there is a way I suppose. I think of all the clubs that would work out exactly how to get shot of someone they will be right up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 13 hours ago, fairfolly said: Rob, I hope you are correct but nobody knows yet what is going to happen to the Championship and League 1 at the end of the season. Let us just hope it is not to late for these thriving junior clubs. control the controllables.. you dont know so you dont plan around it... these kids are playing and loving it, they are not being paid for by Eagles this is the hard work for people like Craig Short at Sheffield Hawks (and of course many others in the coaches etc) the RU growth is the same as is the growth of the RuggerEds and Evo Rugby concept... the loss of the eagles will mean no team to look up to but not necessarily the end of these clubs, certainly not immediately in the same way as the RU junior set up is growing yet there is no top level team within 50 miles of Sheffield (or something like that). Any issues caused by whatever happens to the Champ and League 1 clubs is going to be felt right across the board and any knock on will not solely be an issue around here so its something that will need to be dealt with further up the food chain than the amatuer local clubs. If you lived your life trying to plan for what you cannot possible know then you would never get anything done. Do what you can until you know what the outcome of said uncontrollable is at which point you have something to actually work with and plan with. The clubs are going well, when we know what the outcome is of the above then plan your strategy then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiggy Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 19 hours ago, RP London said: Major Athletics has not been in Sheffield for a while (the whole Don Valley debacle of non reinvestment of funds from athletics meaning the stadium was not fit for purpose compared to other newer stadiums or refitted stadiums and so no new athletics meaning no more money to invest etc.. hence the end of Don Valley). I know you mention the indoor athletics in passing, but the EIS is the largest, IMO, the best indoor athletics stadium and track in the UK. My kids traveled from France to compete at the UK British Indoor champs. I know what you mean about Don Valley though, shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, kiggy said: I know you mention the indoor athletics in passing, but the EIS is the largest, IMO, the best indoor athletics stadium and track in the UK. My kids traveled from France to compete at the UK British Indoor champs. I know what you mean about Don Valley though, shame. and yet it is no longer at the EIS.. the British Indoor championships for the past 2 years has been at the NIA in Birmingham.. although its not a proper track as its "drop in" its what they have decided to use which i think is a huge shame as I agree the EIS is a fantastic set up. The NIA when they build the track though has a bigger capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCKonstantine Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Well this has gone WILDLY off topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfolly Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 YCK, I will get it back on topic for you. No,they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 40 minutes ago, YCKonstantine said: Well this has gone WILDLY off topic Please do bring it back on... as i said in the beginning of my post to Farifolly "Happy to keep the discussion with Sheffield going as long as others on the thread dont mind, otherwise happy to chat to you off line if people arent.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishknight Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 The Knights are not ready for Super League yet, maybe in a couple of years time just hope I live long enough to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 31 minutes ago, spanishknight said: The Knights are not ready for Super League yet, maybe in a couple of years time just hope I live long enough to see it. Hi SK, I strongly think that in a couple of years time SL will be back to Licensing, in that they will need to have some sort of acceptance criteria one of which will most likely be a minimum attendance, can York accomplish say a 6,000 average figure? plenty comments on this site re the size of the catchment area etc, but can York turn that potential into turning turnstiles, I am not familiar with the best attendance figures the club have recorded, I hope they could get to SL but I am not to sure they will acheive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leytherz Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 in the last few years hull kr leigh and london all came up and competed.if york came up they would add to their squad and they would compete just fine.plus they would get just as good crowds as 3 super league teams plus york is a great day out.you would think everybody in super league are getting 15.000 crowds,have grounds like wembley and millions in the bank and could beat the nrl teams the way some people talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfolly Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 And yet 2 of them were relegated and I would think the 3rd one will be relegated at the end of this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopping Mad Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said: Can York accomplish say a 6,000 average figure? plenty comments on this site re the size of the catchment area etc, but can York turn that potential into turning turnstiles, I am not familiar with the best attendance figures the club have recorded, I hope they could get to SL but I am not to sure they will achieve it. Couple of indicators (for what they're worth): York v Leeds, Challenge Cup @ Bootham Crescent, January 1989 - 11,347. York v Fulham, Division Two championship decider @ Wigginton Road, March 1981 - 7,351. (York's all-time record, @ Wigginton Road, is 14,631 - v Swinton, Challenge Cup, February 1934. Record @ Ryedale Stadium was 4,977 - v Halifax, January 1990) 6,000, for a competitive Super League club, playing at a modern stadium, in a city away fans love to visit, isn't beyond the bounds of possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishknight Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hopping Mad said: Couple of indicators (for what they're worth): York v Leeds, Challenge Cup @ Bootham Crescent, January 1989 - 11,347. York v Fulham, Division Two championship decider @ Wigginton Road, March 1981 - 7,351. (York's all-time record, @ Wigginton Road, is 14,631 - v Swinton, Challenge Cup, February 1934. Record @ Ryedale Stadium was 4,977 - v Halifax, January 1990) We got over 4K against Bradford last season and we are hoping to get the same next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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