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Channel 4 to broadcast the Championship?


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35 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Would this hold massive interest for the rest of the country?

We see plenty of shows about blokes on a train, or riding a dhingy round an island, I see no reason why people wouldn't be interested in stories of these towns and clubs.

And it doesn't need to hold massive interest for the rest of the country, there are loads of niche shows on tv, that get some decent figures.

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I'm sure this has been voiced earlier, I can't be added going over all 5 pages.

The RFL will sign with whichever company pays them the biggest figure.

We could do with more exposure, but RFLHQ just want money in their own personal pockets in the short term. Typical Northern Businessmen, give us the money now! Never mind all this "Long Term Investment" Bull that the South are trying to do us out of our Shillings. Clubs are 30-40 years behind marketing, RFL is still in the 50's.

When did you go to the cinema and see a RL game advertised? Or even World Cup? In M62 heartlands there is very little "Hard" advertising.

In cinemas in Hull, Leeds, Manchester, & Liverpool & Cumbria & Newcastle we could provide a 7 minute try tape of last weekends games, show them as 'adverts' for a build up to the GF & CCF?

 

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10 hours ago, Dave T said:

Can you highlight another sport that gets its 2nd tier shown on terrestrial TV? They aren't because they generally aren't that attractive to mainstream audiences. Even football has 2nd tier stuff on Sky and Quest (not sure if they also use C5). 

Unless we can offer something interesting it is unlikely a terrestrial channel will value the product. Sure they may allow the RFL to film it and give us a midnight slot to broadcast it, but I dont see why they would put investment into it, which is what we should be aiming for.

And Cricket has created whole new versions of the sport to get some additional coverage, so I'm not sure why you are so against making the presentation more interesting.

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Just now, Dave T said:

Well yes, you'll see I highlight that. Football is in a different league to anything else in this country.

 

 

Well hopefully they're will be another and they won't mess with it to look like gladiators (although some might like that).

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26 minutes ago, Ackroman said:

 

Well hopefully they're will be another and they won't mess with it to look like gladiators (although some might like that).

Yes, because that's what people are suggesting.

Not much point discussing with paranoid people who make up their own fictitious arguments.

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5 hours ago, SL17 said:

You seem to dismiss sponsorship opportunities. As from 2021 you can clearly see Sky sticking with SL. Their interest as in a bid for Championship is solely not to show it.

Not sure how that will work out for SL as often the bid from Sky has included the lower tiers or no deal.

I hope C4 get it on board and become the saviour of the game. As has been said the monetary value would be smaller but the options available would more than compensate for that.

I am not dismissing sponsorship, but we need to break away from the Sky monopoly, we need more than "The Super League Show" on BBC2 at midnight on a Monday/ 1300 on a Tuesday. We need highlights at a time when the working person can see them, 1900 on a Tuesday maybe, early enough so kids due for school on Wednesday can see it, and late enough for the adults to return home from work. At the moment the BBC are pitching the highlights programme at the unemployed, those who stay up late up north, and those with a Sky record box. 

I'm not sure how much influence Adam Hills has in this, but if he can help get RL on C4, so be it.

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22 hours ago, Colin James said:

The Championship now contains some full time teams and even the part timers have a much more professional approach to the game than 15 years ago. Toulouse, Toronto and in the future maybe more foreign teams will join which is a great way of opening up the game to people who aren't from small northern towns. 

There is a lot of if's, but's and maybe's. Exactly what are the RFL offering, and what do they want? 

They cannot offer a big city international league if TWP leave for Superleague at the end of the year. If SL block them then the Championship would lose Toulouse instead. If blocked would Argylle pull out? If so do Ottawa also pull out? Ottowa are quoted in Matt Shaw's article as currently not joining as they have "one hurdle to clear" before they can enter. Still no recruitment only a rumour of a search for a head coach.

New York weren't up to scratch and the only  other big city foreign teams are those people like to make up in their heads  (this is OK but not saleable). Channel 4 may have listened to Mr. Rimmer who got his own personal publicity as a dynamic and thrusting leader, but in effect the only substance of what can be offered is small town mainly West Yorkshire RL based on Leigh, Fev, York, Halifax, Batley and Dewsbury with a couple of the old big time clubs of Bradford and Widnes who aren't going to look good on TV at all when people watch them and remember just what RL powerhouses they used to be. Is a shadow of your former self saleable?

The positive vibe is that this will be "exposure", but again note the excellent point made that SKY appear to want to be the ones to exclusively screen the week to Week games in the leagues, in which they ignore screening the Championship to push all their viewers to wards Superleague. I recall SKY backing off showing the championship because it wasn't even worth the significant production costs to them? So is this a loser for Channel 4 just on that basis? Or is Rimmer offering to pay screening costs like TWP do now?

The elephant in the room however is the best part of £18,000,000 of SKY money the Championship clubs used to get and won't get under the new SKY deal. Just at what actual level will Championship RL be played when all the Championship clubs will have to reduce their costs and budgets and be even smaller part time clubs than they are now?? As above there is no way the RFL can offer a league containing TWP, TO and Ottawa, so what price a league with skint clubs and one overseas club with money that just walks it making the whole competition a non-competition from about the third week, as we see now?

I think these are the stark realities of this non-story.......

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23 hours ago, Dave T said:

Yes, that would be interesting, but we should also remember our newer members in London, Coventry etc. and in the future hopefully Ottowa. 

Plenty of interesting stories to tell I'm sure.

You mean like if some bloke, maybe a journalist, walked from Hull to Widnes telling the story of RL along the way?

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Those stark realities you mention Parksider are just conjecture not reality, there's a difference.  You may be right about what will happen to Toronto & Ottawa but how close are you to people like Elstone & Perez to know their thoughts that you can be so sure.

I'm not sure where you get £18 million pounds from, I thought the Champioship clubs were getting £300k a year which comes out as £4.2 million a year.

The Doomsday scenario you mention may well happen but at the moment income for 2nd tier rugby league has been increasing over time and has never been higher - the fans look to be enjoying it with 15k to 20k a week turning up, more than I can ever remember for that level and many 'traditional' clubs like York are thriving along with the overseas clubs.

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39 minutes ago, themainbrace said:

Those stark realities you mention Parksider are just conjecture not reality, there's a difference.  You may be right about what will happen to Toronto & Ottawa but how close are you to people like Elstone & Perez to know their thoughts that you can be so sure.

I'm not sure where you get £18 million pounds from, I thought the Champioship clubs were getting £300k a year which comes out as £4.2 million a year.

The Doomsday scenario you mention may well happen but at the moment income for 2nd tier rugby league has been increasing over time and has never been higher - the fans look to be enjoying it with 15k to 20k a week turning up, more than I can ever remember for that level and many 'traditional' clubs like York are thriving along with the overseas clubs.

Parksider "conveniently" omitted to mention that £18m is over the lifetime of the current TV, around £4.2m per year is right. 

Channel 4 had revenues of just under £1billion last year, so £4.2m for 30 weeks of coverage is not an illogical figure.

Many people don't realise Channel 4 is publically owned with it's own charter, kind of like the BBC but with advertising. Part of that charter is "to deliver high-quality, innovative, alternative content that challenges the status quo". I can see how weekly broadcasting of a RL league competition is compatible with that as no other national terrestrial channel has done it since the 1970's.

Sadly I doubt they will get Francis Rossi to do the commentary though.

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1 hour ago, themainbrace said:

Those stark realities you mention Parksider are just conjecture not reality, there's a difference.  You may be right about what will happen to Toronto & Ottawa but how close are you to people like Elstone & Perez to know their thoughts that you can be so sure.

Parky's also wrong that Ottawa "aren't joining"- the Shaw article mentions they were present for discussions about this and the hurdle in question they need to clear means they could join in 2020 or wait until 2021. They're coming in, just a question of when. New York was told to reapply for admission for the 2021 season when they've gotten financing issues sorted out. 

I doubt Argyle would just drop it if SL, for some lunatic reason, rejected his team. The whole point of this thread is how Channel 4 might pick up the Championship. Argyle would stay in the league, knowing in all likelihood very shortly he'd be joined by Ottawa and New York. Just a bit of wishcasting on Parky's part seeing as his "Argyle is going to close Toronto and buy a UK team" line hasn't panned out. 

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On 16/07/2019 at 22:31, scotchy1 said:

Would this hold massive interest for the rest of the country?

If great train rides of the world with some old Tory holds them in thrall it would only be a step up for them.

 

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, SL17 said:

The benefits are endless, even a bigger salary cap for Championship than SL could be on the cards. All down to funding to increase professionalism. C4 would probably look outside the box, instead of having a broadcaster who is stuck in it.

I'm not one to defend scotchy's views on the championship, but I don't think he's disputing the potential benefits.

Playing devils advocate what he's saying is that clubs ran on threadbare shoestrings out of amateur facilities won't be able to contribute or take advantage of any benefits of an FTA deal that likely won't be cash heavy. The prime area the championship has to professionalise is off field. How can a club without a dedicated marketing manager sell their home games? A big one is how can clubs without professional board level commercial staff leverage the FTA coverage to get improved high profile sponsorship deals? 

The benefits I agree are potentially huge in RL terms, but the question is which clubs would be ready to take advantage of them. There is serious doubt over whether a number of championship sides could. 

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8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

As ive said elsewhere, those types of programmes are generally a limited run of relatively few episodes. How much really do you think that type of programming is worth to a channel?

I don't think the suggestion is a standalone 30-60 minute documentary on these clubs, more part of the programming angle celebrating the towns, clubs, people etc. 

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20 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

But still the question remains of how attractive that is to the rest of the country.

If we are expecting it to be a programme with the kind of reach of size of the other programmes mentioned on this thread then the effect its going to have is going to be relatively small. Nowhere near some of the ideas we have seen on here of the championship having a bigger SC than SL etc. 

Championship RL wont have the attraction of those programmes. Ultimately it will still be lower tier sport.

But it can still package itself in the most attractive way to appeal to as big an audience as possible.

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I think, to be fair, we are all spit balling ideas. None of us are TV Producers etc (as far as i know) and so they are only going to be ideas which we are getting a bit hung up on in the technicalities of them IMHO. 

The general gist has got to be a mix of the highlights and "general points of interest" some weeks that may be a bit about the history of  "a once great club", "a founder member" etc etc maybe the next week its on one of the players who had a none traditional RL upbringing and is playing at xyz club, then one week a "behind the scenes at training" thing like Matt Shaw did at pre season for the mag.. and so on.. Just something more of interest than just people gabbing on about the highlights. An interesting segment on the tactics and rules as they crop up week to week very much in the form of what Osi and Jason do with Mark Chapman on the NFL show.. 

Just make the show itself interesting. People who dont like cars watch Top Gear for the presenters and the fun (hence the drop off after the 3 pratts got sacked, but the pick up with Flintoff and McGuiness). People who dont know much about NFL still watch the NFL show and learn a bit as well as enjoy the highlights and the obvious relationship between the 3 hosts.. 

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2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

As ive said elsewhere, those types of programmes are generally a limited run of relatively few episodes. How much really do you think that type of programming is worth to a channel?

Portillo on a train has had more than a single series. He goes to various parts of the world on his trips and each area of the world is a separate series.

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1 minute ago, SL17 said:

Does C4 use regional TV? Or are their programmes straight across the whole network. I've read they can use macro regions for  advertising. 

They might for advertising but for TV shows I'm pretty sure they're national. Why?

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What is crystal clear is that the sub SL clubs must act in the face of the Sky money being removed.  That might be a guaranteed revenue stream from a broadcaster with the highest bid, or it might be better to take a a lower bid in order to access free to air delivery (and all the benefits that come with that).  Hopefully there will be a number of choices and not the usual take it or leave it offer.

In terms of content to attract new viewers then what you want is excitement, controversy, violence and skill.  The Championship and League One have all those elements in abundance.  The games are excellent viewing.

What I wouldn't like is what some have suggested.  ie some sort of nostalgic programming style whereby 'the north' is displayed as some proud but backward region.  So for me yes, do the RLR bits, but let's not have the documentary style scan of the smoking rooftops complete with a Dvorak backing track.  So to match that, the presenters need to be carefully chosen and not professional northerners a-la 'Baz n Tez'.

And just look at the potential spread.... herritage sides, plus North Amercian, French and Welsh ones.  You've also got London in there as well as Newcastle, Coventry and York.  Maybe even Leeds.  That's a pretty good starting point for doing something fresh and attractive to both advertisers and viewers across a very broad spectrum.

Forever in our shadow, forever on your mind.

 

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Im not sure SKy money is being removed. Its very strange how quickly that has become the accepted wisdom. 

But I agree entirely with the other bits. RL seems to have this strange attitude of choosing small and looking backwards in an almost exclusionary manner. It seems to see having pride in itself, its heritage and its history as saying if you weren't watching in '73 on a cold winters night in a crumbling terrace with 4 other guys you aren't a real fan instead of going out and showing whats great about RL and the north we expect people to be grateful if we give them the worst. 

Its like we see it as some sort of betrayal to show ourselves in the best light. We have tonnes of great local and craft breweries in the north, loads of great food and produce but we still act like anything except a pint of bitter and a microwaved pie is fancy dan nonsense. 

We seem intent on telling the same story of some kid from a former pit town done good instead of the bigger, more interesting stories. We have players from Papua New Guinea, a place about as different from the north of England as you can find. How many other Papuans are moving to England besides RL players yet we rarely tell that story. We have 7th day Adventist Tongans lining up with an against openly gay players from Batley, THere are loads of big interesting stories to tell in the game

Of course, nobody suggested any of the above, but you go and create a fake argument as usual.

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14 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Have you had a bang on the head?

I was agreeing with him, lets not do the things he suggests here. 

Let's do some other things

What an odd reaction, especially as I never said anyone had suggested those things, simply that that is what we do now. 

So what are you banging on about when you claim:

"- RL seems to have this strange attitude of choosing small and looking backwards in an almost exclusionary manner

- It seems to see having pride in itself, its heritage and its history as saying if you weren't watching in '73 on a cold winters night in a crumbling terrace with 4 other guys you aren't a real fan

- Its like we see it as some sort of betrayal to show ourselves in the best light

- We seem intent on telling the same story of some kid from a former pit town done good instead of the bigger, more interesting stories"

All your quotes, when you have said you agree with Konkrete's point about not doing what others have suggested and playing on the history element.

Nobody suggested the above, it was an odd rant. Of course, this is a thread about the lower divisions, so of course you would be disparaging.

And you try and claim it is what we do now - do we? Show me which RL shows do this?

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