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First female ref in the NRL (Merged Threads)

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17 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Yes, that scenario would be stupid, but so is every other time when someone gets an advantage just to appease the politically-correct movement instead of giving it to the best available.

Maybe that doesn't happen on your side of the world, but over here it's a different story.

 

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The NRL have admitted they are short in depth. The last weeks have seen a number of poor performances from match officials. She deserves a chance to show what she can do.

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20 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Yes, that scenario would be stupid, but so is every other time when someone gets an advantage just to appease the politically-correct movement instead of giving it to the best available.

Maybe that doesn't happen on your side of the world, but over here it's a different story.

Oh... I see... you were just shoehorning in your general view of the world?

 

3747832B-6C98-4E59-959D-6C24BBB270A9.jpeg

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20 minutes ago, Copa said:

Oh... I see... you were just shoehorning in your general view of the world?

 

3747832B-6C98-4E59-959D-6C24BBB270A9.jpeg

Why is it that some people can't have a debate without being insultive to anyone who disagrees with them ?

OK, you obviously just want an argument ... but I am not going to give you one.  Bye bye.

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Of course she is there on merit.  She is a female referee in a sport that is almost entirely dominated by men and so every step of the way she will have had to prove that she is as good as the male alternatives and will no doubt have had every aspect of her performance scrutinised to find the faults and weaknesses by those determined to prove that a woman could not manage a game as well as a man.

To suggest that she is there as some kind of token fundamentally misses the extent of her achievement and shows a complete lack of empathy of what is takes to succeed in any walk of life when you are in some way different to the accepted 'norm' for that profession.

Edited by Dunbar
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29 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Of course she is there on merit.  She is a female referee in a sport that is almost entirely dominated by men and so every step of the way she will have had to prove that she is as good as the male alternatives and will no doubt have had every aspect of her performance scrutinised to find the faults and weaknesses by those determined to prove that a woman could not manage a game as well as a man.

To suggest that she is there as some kind of token fundamentally misses the extent of her achievement and shows a complete lack of empathy of what is tales to succeed in any walk of life when you are in some way different to the accepted 'norm' for that profession.

My first comment on this subject was "If she is there on merit then good luck to her."

However, as we know, in this day and age, many organisations are fearful of being hauled over the coals for not appearing to be equal opportunity employers and that there are quotas imposed on them to employ people of certain backgrounds, whether that be gender, race, religion, etc. I was therefore just hoping that the RL powers-that-be had not become one of those companies and would always employ the very best for the job irrespective of any other factors.

My comment was not in any way saying that she was not good enough for the position, but if others want to interpret it that way then so be it.

However, I will say that I do feel sorry for the male referees who have also come through the system and been appointed to the same level of refereeing yet have not been given the equal amount of publicity as on this occasion when they achieved that status. Again, if people want to interpret that as sexist on my part then please do so, but equality should go both ways.

Edited by RL does what Sky says

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Years ago a female official was appointed by the RL to ref a reserve game with myself as one of the touch judges. The home coach, who I won’t name but was and is regarded as one of the game’s greats, stated his team would not play if “a bird” was refereeing, my self and the other officials told her to call his bluff see what happened, but in the end she deferred, wrongly imo to his wishes and I reffed while she carried out 4th official duties.

it was scandalous and shameful and I lost the respect I’d had for the man as a player. 

Edited by Phil
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"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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1 hour ago, Phil said:

Years ago a female official was appointed by the RL to ref a reserve game with myself as one of the touch judges. The home coach, who won’t name but was and is regarded as one of the game’s greats, stated his team would not play if “a bird” was refereeing, my self and the other officials told her to call his bluff see what happened, but in the end she deferred, wrongly imo to his wishes and I reffed while she carried out 4th official duties.

it was scandalous and shameful and I lost the respect I’d had for the man as a player. 

Absolutely terrible and an example of the kind of barriers that female referees will have had to overcome as they look to develop themselves in the sport.

So let's all do the female referees a favour and stop implying that when they overcome these challenges and rise to the top of their profession it is only because of some kind of tokenism.

Edited by Dunbar
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1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

Absolutely terrible and an example of the kind of barriers that female referees will have had to overcome as they look to develop themselves in the sport.

So let's all do the female referees a favour and stop implying that when they overcome these challenges and rise to the top of their profession it is only because of some kind of tokenism.

Totally agree. However, in today's world where some people are constantly pushing their own agenda and claiming their section of the community are being badly treated - and with the media glad to publish any controversial stories which may help sell their product -  it is the case that many people have been put in positions just so the companies involved do not receive adverse publicity as being racist, sexist, etc.

For example, if a team in the Football League want to appoint a new manger then they must now interview at least one black or ethnic-minority person. However, if the top 5 candidates are all white than why should one of those miss out on the opportunity of the job just for the club involved to show they are politically correct ?  I am sure than 90% of people in the country are not racist yet they are being treated as though that figure is the opposite.

I am not saying that the appointment of a female referee is such a case but the more the politically-correct brigade push their agenda and appear to be furthering their cause then the more other people might wonder if certain appointments were made purely on merit even if it was actually genuine.

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1 minute ago, RL does what Sky says said:

I am not saying that the appointment of a female referee is such a case

You are.

You know you are.

And we know you are.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Maybe do some research before you post. There is not just a lack of depth in the NRL Match Officials, but most weekends the "Men" have been missing things and making mistakes. Belinda has been part of the NRL Match Officials for around 5 years. She has been Reffing Queensland Cup -the level below the NRL- as well as being a Touch Judge in the NRL. She deserves a chance to show if she is up to reffing at NRL level, both on merit and due to many of the male colleagues putting in poor performances. Will she be perfect and make no mistakes? No, but then neither have or do the men.

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I know it's a different sport and wasn't at professional level but I was refereed twice by women in the 90's during my football days.  Both were very good and once the match had started I didn't even notice.

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15 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

However, I will say that I do feel sorry for the male referees who have also come through the system and been appointed to the same level of refereeing yet have not been given the equal amount of publicity as on this occasion when they achieved that status. Again, if people want to interpret that as sexist on my part then please do so, but equality should go both ways.

You’re now complaining men aren’t treated equally in rugby league?

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17 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

However, as we know, in this day and age, many organisations are fearful of being hauled over the coals for not appearing to be equal opportunity employers and that there are quotas imposed on them to employ people of certain backgrounds

 

12 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

For example, if a team in the Football League want to appoint a new manger then they must now interview at least one black or ethnic-minority person. However, if the top 5 candidates are all white than why should one of those miss out on the opportunity of the job just for the club involved to show they are politically correct

Firstly, let me say that the the first female NRL referee has progressed through the system and is not part of a quota.

But, with respect, I think you are entirely missing the point when it comes to initiatives aimed at providing equal opportunity.

The UK business and sporting worlds have been engineered over decades (if not centuries) to favour the straight, while male when it comes to opportunity to succeed.  This is because business and sport reflects society and society still favours the straight, white male when it comes to opportunity.  To deny this is to deny reality.  Look at every board of every business in the UK and just see the overwhelming representation of middle aged, white males... where they always the best candidates for the role? No, in many instances the while male where the 'only' candidates for the role as they were the only ones being provided with the opportunity.

You reference football teams interviewing black or minority candidates.  Have you seen the demographic make up of professional football? if one in five managerial candidates are black then this massively under represents black professional football players at the top level and so white males are still being provided with over inflated opportunity.

I care about this passionately and more so than ever now.

I have a five year old daughter and we were chatting recently about jobs and what she wanted to do when she grew up.  When I mentioned some jobs she said "no, they are 'boy' jobs".  I was staggered that she would think this at such a young age.  It isn't me or my wife saying this to her, it is the continued reflection on a society that is still set up to show that boys are able to achieve more in more professions than girls and it is being re-enforced and instilled at such an early age.

You (and others) may have had the best intentions to say that the first referee should be there on merit but to even state this implies that there is some other route and doubts her credibility or suitability for this role.  It is this type of thinking and messaging that re-enforces the idea that girls should not undertake these 'boy' roles.

You are not not responsible for what my daughter thinks and I am not picking on you but the messages you have displayed in this conversation are reflective of the underlying problem that we still have a society engineered to favour straight, white males and any attempt to address this is seen as negative when it is entirely positive.

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15 hours ago, Phil said:

Years ago a female official was appointed by the RL to ref a reserve game with myself as one of the touch judges. The home coach, who I won’t name but was and is regarded as one of the game’s greats, stated his team would not play if “a bird” was refereeing, my self and the other officials told her to call his bluff see what happened, but in the end she deferred, wrongly imo to his wishes and I reffed while she carried out 4th official duties.

it was scandalous and shameful and I lost the respect I’d had for the man as a player. 

This is shameful behaviour but sadly not at all surprising. They deserve to be named and shamed IMO, if people are not challenged on these things will never change.

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4 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

This is shameful behaviour but sadly not at all surprising. They deserve to be named and shamed IMO, if people are not challenged on these things will never change.

Yes they do but I’m not going to name the coach or the official, I’m sure you’ll understand why 


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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2 hours ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

There was at least one female referee (Julia Lee) in the London amateur RL in the eighties and no one minded.

Yes, I actually knew Julia Lee personally when she refereed in this part of the country - I believe she was originally from Hull. She actually took charge of matches in what was then the "A" team and Academy leagues of the RFL. She was a decent referee for the standard she was officiating at - and I had no problem with her being so because I did know she had got there through merit ... which I trust shows that I have no problem with having female officials.

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

The UK business and sporting worlds have been engineered over decades (if not centuries) to favour the straight, while male when it comes to opportunity to succeed.

You reference football teams interviewing black or minority candidates.  Have you seen the demographic make up of professional football? if one in five managerial candidates are black then this massively under represents black professional football players at the top level and so white males are still being provided with over inflated opportunity.

I totally agree with the first paragraph here. However, these days that scenario is certainly not as it was in those decades of the past and  those "minority groups" (for the use of a better phrase) are far more accepted in the community as a whole by the general public. As I previously stated, 90+% of the people couldn't care less about someone's race, gender, etc ... including me.

However, due that change of attitude, why should that 90+% of today still be made to feel that they are still somehow against an all-inclusive society by having quotas imposed on them ? It's akin to still blaming German people of today for what Adolf Hitler did 70 years ago.

The same applies to the football issue. Again I agree with your figures, but in bringing in that quota it is suggesting that all clubs are still racist and would not interview such a person if that quota was not in place. Maybe so in the past but again attitudes these days have changed. Quotas, of course, can themselves be risky ... there are footballers from all countries in the Football League, so why aren't there quotas to ensure representation from Australia, America, etc ? By only doing it for certain people could itself said to be not all-inclusive.

2 hours ago, Copa said:

You’re now complaining men aren’t treated equally in rugby league?

I would answer this but as I was insulted by this person just because he disagreed with a previous answer of mine  and therefore I will refrain from doing so.

Edited by RL does what Sky says

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5 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

I totally agree with the first paragraph here. However, these days that scenario is certainly not as it was in those decades of the past and  those "minority groups" (for the use of a better phrase) are far more accepted in the community as a whole by the general public. As I previously stated, 90+% of the people couldn't care less about someone's race, gender, etc ... including me.

However, due that change of attitude, why should that 90+% of today still be made to feel that they are still somehow against an all-inclusive society by having quotas imposed on them ? It's akin to still blaming German people of today for what Adolf Hitler did 70 years ago.

The same applies to the football issue. Again I agree with your figures, but in bringing in that quota it is suggesting that all clubs are still racist and would not interview such a person if that quota was not in place. Maybe so in the past but again attitudes these days have changed. Quotas, of course, can themselves be risky ... there are footballers from all countries in the Football League, so why aren't there quotas to ensure representation from Australia, America, etc ? By only doing it for certain people could itself said to be not all-inclusive.

Let's leave it here as we have both presented our thoughts on it.

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I will end by saying congratulations to Belinda Sharpe and I hope she enjoys refereeing her first (of many I hope) NRL game.

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25 minutes ago, Copa said:

This match starts in a few minutes..

Looking forward to it... but mostly because Herbie Farnworth is getting another run for the Broncos.

No offence to Belinda Sharpe (and I am sure she will understand) but I hope I don't notice her all game!

Edit... scratch the Farnworth comment, just noticed he has been left out the 17

Edited by Dunbar
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