Total Rugby League Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Video Referees: A potential solution Words: Alex Davis Rugby League may have taken a back seat for a few of us last weekend as two events, in particular, took centre stage. All the Super League games were done and dusted by the weekend so many of us enjoyed the huge thrills that came with an England World Cup win in the cricket and Novak Djokovic’s record-breaking Wimbledon win. One thing those two events had in common was the way in which the video aspect of their officiating is implemented. It’s certainly a big topic currently in Rugby League. Should there be a video referee? Why, when they check a try, is it taking so long? And why aren’t they at every game? These are just a few of the questions that seem to get asked every week. But those two events at the weekend could well provide a solution that would appease plenty of the parties involved. One of the key components of the video systems used in both cricket and tennis is the ability for the players themselves to choose what is checked and what isn’t, with the exception of run outs in cricket which, by and large, are all checked. In cricket, each team is permitted one wrong challenge per innings. If they’re correct in their challenge, they keep it. And the same goes for tennis. Each player gets three challenges per set and they also keep their challenges if correct. So instead of the referees deciding whether they are sure enough to award the try without reference upstairs, they should either award the try or not, as they see fit, and the captain of either side has 15 seconds to decide whether they want to challenge. Each side could have a challenge per game which they would, of course, keep if they were correct. This would go some way to halting the recent upsurge of players asking for a try to be checked by the video referee even when the decision is perhaps a clear one. If the players are so sure, they should challenge it. But be aware, if they’re wrong and another decision comes along that they aren’t happy with, they won’t have the chance to challenge as Jason Roy found out in England’s Cricket World Cup semi-final against Australia. View this article on TotalRL.com Total Rugby League www.totalrl.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhinoferg Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 If it ain't broken don't fix it. Video ref aspect of RL is fine as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Not really comparable. IMHO. The umpire is virtually always in a perfect position. Very often rugby players cannot ever really be in a good position and most are moaning and complaining even before they get out of the dressing rooms. All we have to do is leave it to the referee. If he is not sure then let him review it. Why bother with him having to make up his mind first. If unsure... and something may have gone on earlier, say off side, then review. In the cricket 6 overthrow controversy I wonder why neither NZ or Umpires did not review? (I thought it was legitimate BTW) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Rhinoferg said: If it ain't broken don't fix it. Video ref aspect of RL is fine as it is. the only issue IMHO is the time it takes but the NRL prove it doesnt have to, they are quite quick. watch it and make a decision.. if it is taking that long then just send it back to the onfield decision without sufficient evidence to overturn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunsletgreenandgold Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 26 minutes ago, Rhinoferg said: If it ain't broken don't fix it. Video ref aspect of RL is fine as it is. It is broken though. All the points made in the OP are bugbears of many in the game, not least of all fans. With the exception of football (who are having a nightmare with VR decisions) RL uses Video Tech in the least efficient way of all the major sports the currently use it IMO. The only good thing we have is the idea to take the refs call if the VR isn't clear. The NRL bunker is much more affective. I do like the idea of sides having a set number of reviews as well - it would take a degree of the awful appealing for everything culture away from the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 26 minutes ago, RP London said: the only issue IMHO is the time it takes but the NRL prove it doesnt have to, they are quite quick. watch it and make a decision.. if it is taking that long then just send it back to the onfield decision without sufficient evidence to overturn The VR can simply give his opinion. Try, No Try or Unsure/Unsighted. His opinion. This gives the Ref time to consider his initial thought (and he need not give it out loud) and then simply give his decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said: The VR can simply give his opinion. Try, No Try or Unsure/Unsighted. His opinion. This gives the Ref time to consider his initial thought (and he need not give it out loud) and then simply give his decision. yes that would be the other way to do it.. but not endless angles over and over again that still dont show if the ball is grounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 27 minutes ago, RP London said: yes that would be the other way to do it.. but not endless angles over and over again that still dont show if the ball is grounded. And a big screen would help the Ref, rather than leave him standing as a spare part. If it's not on TV then frankly the controversy is strictly limited. Read the result in the paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 VR takes far too long and is one of if not the worst aspect of the game as a spectator. It was fun for the first few times but now is so obvious most of the time it’s pointless. And that Try / No Try clock is a pathetic gimmick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Which is most important, a quick decision or a correct decision. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 15 minutes ago, Padge said: Which is most important, a quick decision or a correct decision. i don't want to wait 5 minutes for a decision. The ref is there and makes a call, if the video ref cant see a reason to overrule relatively quickly they shouldn't go over it too in depth IMHO. how many times do we see them take ages and the call is still "I cant see anything, go with the on field". if there is an obvious reason to change it change it if not then go back to the on field but much quicker than some we see now... equally there are some that are very very obvious but they still look at it from 3-4 angles.. just give the damn decision! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBone Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I'm not a fan of the VR as it isn't at every game, and I've seen too many occasions when the VR has got it completely wrong e.g. Rhinos scoring against Bradford (at magic?). But, if we have to have it, then where we are now seems to be in the right direction but it would be better if was more like the NRL bunker. The VR was introduced really because the Sky commentary muppets were intent on finding controversy at every televised game and would go on endlessly about anything missed by the officials (which, strangely, doesn't seem to happen anywhere near as much with the NRL commentary) As regards the ref making the first call - IMO the on field ref should make the decision because that's what happens at the vast majority of RL games,. If the ref feels the necessity to check their decision then let them but they should make it known what their opinion is. As to playing around with having a team challenge to a decision it might work, maybe one available in each half? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Frightful Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 One way to really improve the video ref would be to allow him to open his eyes and watch what actually happened before he comes to his decision. Hull FC....The Sons of God... (Well, we are about to be crucified on Good Friday) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I'm not sure of what the problem is that we are trying to fix tbh. And we need to be clear on that before we offer a solution. Probably the main improvement I could see would be slightly slicker technology. I think it was in origin the other day that on the match winning try the ref asked for obstruction to be checked, and by the time it got to us seeing it, the VR had already checked this. I think the same could be done for tries from kicks - the VR should be checking that the second the player puts the ball down. But I think a lot of it is down to the technology, particularly on BBC, they seem very slow offering up certain angles. The challenges idea is interesting, but as soon as we see obvious blunders by refs people will be clamouring back for the current system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overtheborder Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I like the idea of it being as it is to be honest, i don't mind a challenge by coaches if anything, maybe a challenge by a captain, but it seems to be fine to me. It's transparent, the only thing i'd potentially change at the moment is the referee sending it up with a decision. The referee is unsure of the decision, so any bias by sending it up with one (where the decision has to be overturned) undermines the system a little bit for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGFATHER Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 18 hours ago, overtheborder said: I like the idea of it being as it is to be honest, i don't mind a challenge by coaches if anything, maybe a challenge by a captain, but it seems to be fine to me. It's transparent, the only thing i'd potentially change at the moment is the referee sending it up with a decision. The referee is unsure of the decision, so any bias by sending it up with one (where the decision has to be overturned) undermines the system a little bit for me. I 100% agree with this, it seems pointless for the ref to give a decision before send it to the VR. He would give the decision on the field and not refer it if he was sure what had happened. I like the idea of referrals by the captain, I'd allow 3 per game and if the original decision was overturned, you do not lose the referral. I'd also allow it to be used for foul play as well as tries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentoffagain2 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 One reason the video clock is on the screen for so long is to get maximum TV exposure for the company who sponsor it.Bores me to death the time it takes to make a decision.NRL it only takes up to 10 seconds and their Refs don't seem to use it as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiggins Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 The reason RL is behind sports like cricket and tennis is nothing to do with player referrals, and more to do with the investment in the technology used. In cricket they took years to get it to the point they are in now. They replaced hotspot with RTS, they improved the accuracy of ball tracking to improve confidence in the technology. Protocols have been brought in to solve problems rather than confuse them, which seems to be the RL way. "Umpire's call" now doesn't lead to a review being lost for example. In rugby league, we still rely on slow motion replays and different camera angles. Nothing that can take subjectivity out of a decision, which is where the technology would work. Should scrap it imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx RL Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 How do they do it in Rugby Union? - Adepto Successu Per Tributum Fuga - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Browny Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I actually agree with the OP. The ref should give a decision - an actual decision, not a guess like we sometimes get now - and teams should get two challenges each. I have called for this for a few years now. I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Browny Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 On 16/07/2019 at 15:19, Dave T said: The challenges idea is interesting, but as soon as we see obvious blunders by refs people will be clamouring back for the current system. Maybe, but if you look at the cricket, it is interesting that the blame for poor decisions in the last two games was put as much, if not more, on Bairstow and Guptill (who wasted previous reviews) as on the umpire who eventually made a poor decision. The ref should still be able to send the decision up blank if he genuinely didn't see the ball grounded or whether a foot brushed the touchline. I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbruce Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 4 hours ago, Just Browny said: That's the same system we had for about 18 years. You give the benefit of the doubt to the attacking side. No the system we had the decision got sent back to the ref who’d already said he didn’t have a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbruce Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 6 hours ago, Manx RL said: How do they do it in Rugby Union? RU union have exactly the same system as we have. In typical RU fashion instead of saying try or no try they ask two questions. One means try and the VR / TMO has to prove it wasn’t to over turn. The other means no try and again the VR /TMO has the prove it was to over turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Browny Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 7 hours ago, bobbruce said: No the system we had the decision got sent back to the ref who’d already said he didn’t have a clue. No, that's not right Bob. I think we did go to ref's call for 1-2 years, but for the vast majority of time the final decision was with the VR. I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbruce Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 39 minutes ago, Just Browny said: No, that's not right Bob. I think we did go to ref's call for 1-2 years, but for the vast majority of time the final decision was with the VR. Fair enough maybe not the system we had for most of the early life of the VR but it was the system we had in place when we switched to this current one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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