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2 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

To begin with it should stop at a European Super League and European Championship. Perhaps League One and Elite One clubs could have a play off to enter the Championship but those leagues are too low down to be international IMO.

Fair enough, but in general the principle of Pro/Rel should definitely be in there to let clubs compete at their appropriate level.

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The level of the best teams of Elite is rather comparable to small teams of championship. Matches against teams from the balkans or irish would have no interest

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www.fcl13.fr FCL XIII - Lezignan Corbieres Rugby League

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4 hours ago, fcl said:

The level of the best teams of Elite is rather comparable to small teams of championship. Matches against teams from the balkans or irish would have no interest

Which is why it would be stupid to take teams out of French Elite 1 into UK Championship 1 when there both have similar playing standards and attendances levels. There should be a Europe structure that dosnt involve a sideways step from French Elite to UK championship 1 which unnecessarily damages the strength of the french game losing clubs to Championship 1 in order to get to Super League...

Edited by kiwis 13 6

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Bring back the old treize tournoi at the end of each season, maybe play it between the 6th 7th,8th and league 1 winners and the top 4 elite, and invite the top 4 elite into the 1895 cup, but France play winter and UK summer 

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1 hour ago, barnyia said:

Bring back the old treize tournoi at the end of each season, maybe play it between the 6th 7th,8th and league 1 winners and the top 4 elite, and invite the top 4 elite into the 1895 cup, but France play winter and UK summer 

Like the idea of competing in the 1895 cup. Next year the CC Final comes forward to middlle of July I think so would be appropriate for French involvement. Would love to see Aude Cathars project return and playing in this competition each year along with say Avignon.

Edited by audois

"It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires"  - Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."  - Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

Si tu( Remi Casty) devais envoyer un fax au Président Guasch? " Un grand bravo pour ce que vous avez fait,et merci de m 'avoir embarqué dans cette aventure"

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24 minutes ago, audois said:

Like the idea of competing in the 1895 cup. Next year the CC Final comes forward to middlle of July I think so would be appropriate for French involvement. Would love to see Aude Cathars project return and playing in this competition each year along with say Avignon.

The Aude Cathars project was a great idea just a shame it wasn't followed through 

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4 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

Which is why it would be stupid to take teams out of French Elite 1 into UK Championship 1 when there both have similar playing standards and attendances levels. There should be a Europe structure that dosnt involve a sideways step from French Elite to UK championship 1 which unnecessarily damages the strength of the french game losing clubs to Championship 1 in order to get to Super League...

The sideways step gives them a chance to bed-in and adjust to the idea of travel and the level of performance need though, rather than just throwing them in at the deep end.


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Well if the teams level are similar, I am positive in mixing french/uk/others for a 1895 cup. but I maintain that their should be a french Championship for the french teams. that is my opinion. There will never be a national recognition/media cover  for our sport if we have 3 or 4 teams playing in the englich Championship.

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9 hours ago, Fabou said:

Well if the teams level are similar, I am positive in mixing french/uk/others for a 1895 cup. but I maintain that their should be a french Championship for the french teams. that is my opinion. There will never be a national recognition/media cover  for our sport if we have 3 or 4 teams playing in the englich Championship.

Exactly right.  France has to stabilise and then begin to improve their competitions.

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10 hours ago, Fabou said:

Well if the teams level are similar, I am positive in mixing french/uk/others for a 1895 cup. but I maintain that their should be a french Championship for the french teams. that is my opinion. There will never be a national recognition/media cover  for our sport if we have 3 or 4 teams playing in the englich Championship.

Whilst I somewhat agree with what you are saying the trouble is it would require a huge amount of money and investment to properly develop the French Championship. It would require much more professionalism, both on and off the field, with teams in bigger population areas and a higher standard of play overall. The French Championship hasn't really improved, and has indeed declined, over my lifetime of watching Rugby League and I cant see how that situation would change just keeping things as they are/were. For now I see French clubs in the English leagues as a necessary evil and whilst not ideal it is seeing the French game progress with more French full time players than I can ever remember. 

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maybe if France had 2 Super League sides Catalan & Toulouse and the French Elite was deemed to be the only promotional pathway to Super Status for French sides it could improve the standard of French Elite. As Fabou & Barnyia have stated French sides could still compete in Challenge cup/1895 Cup or a English/French Treize Tournoi type competition. French based posters like Barnyia, Fabou and Audois obviously people to listen to on these matter as actually have idea as to what is & isnt realistic in France.

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17 minutes ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

maybe if France had 2 Super League sides Catalan & Toulouse and the French Elite was deemed to be the only promotional pathway to Super Status for French sides it could improve the standard of French Elite. As Fabou & Barnyia have stated French sides could still compete in Challenge cup/1895 Cup or a English/French Treize Tournoi type competition. French based posters like Barnyia, Fabou and Audois obviously people to listen to on these matter as actually have idea as to what is & isnt realistic in France.

The costs of just travelling to the uk every other week would be even more expensive than they ate in Elite leagues.  I really can’t see that being an option when crowds are dropping in France.

Catalans and TO recognise they need more teams playing so they themselves have a wider choice of players.  Imo only success for both these teams will encourage more to play.

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On 20/07/2019 at 15:02, audois said:

Like the idea of competing in the 1895 cup. Next year the CC Final comes forward to middlle of July I think so would be appropriate for French involvement. Would love to see Aude Cathars project return and playing in this competition each year along with say Avignon.

What was the Aude Cathars Project? (and before anyone says anything I have googled it and nowt that came up was to do with rugby league 😉). 

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5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

What was the Aude Cathars Project? (and before anyone says anything I have googled it and nowt that came up was to do with rugby league 😉). 

It's like the same way that the Catalan Dragons where formed. But it never progressedspacer.png

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Do many, or indeed any Elite 1 teams have the support to progress into the Championship and make a go of it? (I agree they should go straight in there and not into League One). Toulouse’s gates are pretty poor and I assume they must be bankrolled; any club would need to be able to average 2,500 at least, especially with all the travel involved? From what little I’ve seen of Elite 1 highlights it doesn’t look like there are any teams with crowds of even 1/4 of that?

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13 hours ago, Damien said:

It would require much more professionalism, both on and off the field

This is the key.

and I understand your " necessary evil " vision, in the short run this might be the best option... but i dont Think we can come back from it after we have 3-4 teams in England, even in the long run. so some more pro players from the heartlands, but no development at all.

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9 minutes ago, Fabou said:

This is the key.

and I understand your " necessary evil " vision, in the short run this might be the best option... but i dont Think we can come back from it after we have 3-4 teams in England, even in the long run. so some more pro players from the heartlands, but no development at all.

I see where you are coming from and it is indeed a tricky one because the French Championship will be decimated with 4 of the top clubs taken out. I completely understand what you are saying and in an ideal world the French Championship should be on a par with the English Championship. The trouble is at the moment the French Championship is no where near the standard of the English Championship and doesn't have the crowds or money. That is the problem and is the problem for any club like Toulouse with higher ambition.

For me in an ideal world France would have 2 Super League clubs in Catalans and Toulouse, I'd have had this done years ago, and this drives interest in the wider French game and hopefully a French TV deal and more sponsors, interest etc. This wider interest in turn rejuvenates the French Championship so that it can attract its own TV deal and investors etc, allowing it to increase standards, professionalism etc. This becomes a snowball where more and more want a piece. The trouble is getting that initial trigger.

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For having participated in the project aude xiii cathare I can tell you that it was totally different from the Catalan Dragons

The dragons are a club resulting from the merger of two other clubs in a department polarized by a single city (Perpignan) and under the impetus of a person with ambition and financial means, with to make the connection the feeling to belong to a "Catalan" community.

 

Aude XIII Cathare is a project that was born by the will of elected officials of the department. these elected officials favored the regrouping of the leaders of the clubs of Carcassonne, Limoux and Lezignan to create this team which was just a group of players to first make matches as one-off events and see if there was a common future possible.

But unfortunately, the department of Aude is one of the poorest in France and this French administrative division has less and less means and is directly competing with other more efficient (Community of Communes or agglomeration). In this context, we must know that if the clubs still exist it depends on the will of cities and their mayors, and without these elected there would be no competitive teams in Limoux, Lezignan or Carcassonne.

 

To succeed in a project in the aude, it would be necessary to gather several elements: But the Aude has no money, no leaders, no powerful cities, no common identity. So I think it will be easier to develop a Cumbrian team to go SuperLeague than an audi team in champiosnhip.

 

For me the development of rugby league in France will first of all go through a complete and detailed study of existing clubs, their means both human and financial. With these elements, target clubs should be defined for development in key areas. I spoke of administrative divisions in France, I can take the example of Salon de Provence. City of 45,000 inhabitants but in the center of an agglomeration community of 150,000 people! A city with a treizist tradition, a club in progress, a federal structure for young French players etc. this could be an ideal target certainly less glamorous than Bordeaux, Toulon or Montpellier but not saturated in high level sport like these other cities. We must stop believing in the development of clubs in big cities that magically create teams capable of targeting the super league. I remain convinced that the championship of France Elite has a future: in places with a history, a fervor, in small but renovated stadiums with more profesionnalism to showcase the show on and around the field because it is also one of the great lessons of the Catalan Dragons.

 

Sorry for my approximate english I used an online translator

Edited by fcl
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www.fcl13.fr FCL XIII - Lezignan Corbieres Rugby League

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1 hour ago, fcl said:

For me the development of rugby league in France will first of all go through a complete and detailed study of existing clubs, their means both human and financial. With these elements, target clubs should be defined for development in key areas. I spoke of administrative divisions in France, I can take the example of Salon de Provence. City of 45,000 inhabitants but in the center of an agglomeration community of 150,000 people! A city with a treizist tradition, a club in progress, a federal structure for young French players etc. this could be an ideal target certainly less glamorous than Bordeaux, Toulon or Montpellier but not saturated in high level sport like these other cities. We must stop believing in the development of clubs in big cities that magically create teams capable of targeting the super league. I remain convinced that the championship of France Elite has a future: in places with a history, a fervor, in small but renovated stadiums with more profesionnalism to showcase the show on and around the field because it is also one of the great lessons of the Catalan Dragons.

Je valide 🙂

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I thought that money at the time was being made available by the Aude department (district council) who hoped Aude Cathars would in time support tourism in the area. In the middle of winter they pulled near 6000 on two occaisons to Carcassonne for a  pre-season match against the Dragons. I thought the input at the time was hugely impressive. A distinctive shirt and badge and their own anthem sung before the game. Super it was!

An Aude selection from the three local sides Carcassonne,Lezignan and Limoux could play in the new 1895 Cup as an end in itself sharing matches between the three towns. Whats to lose?

 

Edited by audois

"It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires"  - Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."  - Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

Si tu( Remi Casty) devais envoyer un fax au Président Guasch? " Un grand bravo pour ce que vous avez fait,et merci de m 'avoir embarqué dans cette aventure"

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34 minutes ago, audois said:

I thought that money at the time was being made available by the Aude department (district council) who hoped Aude Cathars would in time support tourism in the area. In the middle of winter they pulled near 6000 on two occaisons to Carcassonne for a  pre-season match against the Dragons. I thought the input at the time was hugely impressive. A distinctive shirt and badge and their own anthem sung before the game. Super it was!

An Aude selection from the three local sides Carcassonne,Lezignan and Limoux could play in the new 1895 Cup as an end in itself sharing matches between the three towns. Whats to lose?

 

Yep, from what I remember it wasn't through a lack of council support that Aude Cathars didn't continue, I believe it was disagreements between the clubs involved in regards to how the concept would be managed. I heard that Lezignan feared that Aude would be too Carcassonne centric. 

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I'm from Lezignan, I participated in the organization of these matches and I do not believe at all in this rumor. There was a good understanding between the clubs and I think that it was the internal problems of carcassonne and the election of Marc Palanques that put an end to this adventure rather than the differences in point of view of the three clubs

To participate in the 1895 Cup, it would be necessary that our clubs sacrifice the local championship, and it was already complicated to set up an organization for a match (which players, coaches? Etc), I do not dare to imagine this on several matches with displacements! We saw that participating in the Challenge Cup was already very complicated for our club and it probably cost a trophy to my team (but we had so many good moments in this cup). I repeat myself but the solution will go through France.

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www.fcl13.fr FCL XIII - Lezignan Corbieres Rugby League

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8 hours ago, fcl said:

I'm from Lezignan, I participated in the organization of these matches and I do not believe at all in this rumor. There was a good understanding between the clubs and I think that it was the internal problems of carcassonne and the election of Marc Palanques that put an end to this adventure rather than the differences in point of view of the three clubs

To participate in the 1895 Cup, it would be necessary that our clubs sacrifice the local championship, and it was already complicated to set up an organization for a match (which players, coaches? Etc), I do not dare to imagine this on several matches with displacements! We saw that participating in the Challenge Cup was already very complicated for our club and it probably cost a trophy to my team (but we had so many good moments in this cup). I repeat myself but the solution will go through France.

So why did the election of Marc Palanques put an end to Aude Cathars? Is there a possibility the Cathars could reform for some matches coz I thought it was a great concept. The club colours, the crowds, the logo. French Rugby League needs more projects like this. 

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The Federation has had it's challenges for sure but impressed with their organisation around next domestic season. Already fixtures at all levels have been confirmed and published. Elite 1 will commence in the middle of November Elite 2 last weekend of September. Think staying with 10 teams for Elite 1was the right call. It s stable and slowly improving with more French representation. Elite 2 have lost two sides from the Aude Ferrals and Minervois and gained one from Ille-sur- Tet. I think first time for the Catalan side at this level. Appears well structured supported by a second team at Federal level as well as U19s. I feel that the model today is around less clubs but those that we've got run with more teams from tiny tots, tag rugby, womens, wheelchair etc etc.The fixtures are now on the Federation web-site. Below show the number of teams.

Elite 1  10

Elite 2  11

National  16

Federal   24

 

Edited by audois
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"It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires"  - Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."  - Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

Si tu( Remi Casty) devais envoyer un fax au Président Guasch? " Un grand bravo pour ce que vous avez fait,et merci de m 'avoir embarqué dans cette aventure"

gallery_02-am31503_5b827265940b7_.jpg

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19 minutes ago, audois said:

The Federation has had it's challenges for sure but impressed with their organisation around next domestic season. Already fixtures at all levels have been confirmed and published. Elite 1 will commence in the middle of November Elite 2 last weekend of September. Think staying with 10 teams for Elite 1was the right call. It s stable and slowly improving with more French representation. Elite 2 have lost two sides from the Aude Ferrals and Minervois and gained one from Ille-sur- Tet. I think first time for the Catalan side at this level. Appears well structured supported by a second team at Federal level as well as U19s. I feel that the model today is around less clubs but those that we've got run with more teams from tiny tots, tag rugby, womens, wheelchair etc etc.The fixtures are now on the Federation web-site. Below show the number of teams.

Elite 1  10

Elite 2  11

National  16

Federal   24

 

Any Parisian clubs in that mix?

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