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The Daddy

SL needs to bring back franchising

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Gonna get a lot of hate off this post but I only say this as RL fan living in London where the sport has very little visibility. 

The whole concept of promotion and relegation, jeopardy etc does nothing to benefit the sport. The SL competition needs to have the most commercially viable clubs in the competition and ones which open the comp up to new markets. Your casual sports fan or multinational sponsor is not interested in clubs like Wakefield, Huddersfield, Salford and despite 100 years in the UK league structure these clubs still struggle to have any sort of presence even in their own towns/cities. We also need to give clubs time to grow their organisations and develop players without the constant threat of relegation. Look at London, it's a market RL needs to be in. We get promoted but because of the uncertainty of relegation some of our best young players get picked off by other clubs that don't produce players. Bradford, Toulouse and Newcastle all bring something different to the table, larger markets, new markets, they develop players and have good youth systems. They bring much greater added value and would increase the average attendances of the comp. 

RL has lost so much ground in recent years in terms of coverage to sports like Boxing, Union, MMA it needs to make up this ground but it can only do so by taking a strategic approach and bringing clubs into SL that correspond to those strategies. Promotion and Relegation is too much of a lottery and organised chaos to allow the sport to grow. Richard Lewis was spot on with this approach and since he departed rl the profile and value of the SL competition has hit a low. 

Edited by The Daddy
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Yeah so much work goes into being in Super League finding Club Sponsors, organizing Playing/Training facilities, Coaching/Admin Staff,  youth Academies and now Reserve grade sides... and in one bad season all that work can be undone with relegation. Then there is the fact that the UK game will suffer a loss of profile & revenue if the more popular sides like Wigan, St Helens, Warrington, Hull, Leeds are relegated as it has done with the loss of Bradford ( but Bradford caused there own problems with poor financial management).Also the threat of relegation prevents half the sides in super league from long term planning.

I get that promotion relegation is a UK sporting tradition and the dream of rising up through the divisions on the strength of your on field performance to get promoted to Super league provides a glimmer of hope to people. But the reality is Professional sport requires elite coaching, player development, training and playing facilities which needs funding. Funding requires Administration. Promotion Relegation is fine for amateur or semi pro competitions and works for Soccer in UK as they have a fully professional league below to be relegated to. In case of Rugby League in the UK on field playing criteria cannot be the sole criteria for promotion to a Sustainable professional Competition. 

Edited by kiwis 13 6
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The only sport that can afford promotion and relegation is soccer. Other sports like ice hockey,american football, basketball don't take part in that money wasting exercise. RL shouldn't either.

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1 hour ago, The Daddy said:

Gonna get a lot of hate off this post but I only say this as RL fan living in London where the sport has very little visibility. 

The whole concept of promotion and relegation, jeopardy etc does nothing to benefit the sport. The SL competition needs to have the most commercially viable clubs in the competition and ones which open the comp up to new markets. Your casual sports fan or multinational sponsor is not interested in clubs like Wakefield, Huddersfield, Salford and despite 100 years in the UK league structure these clubs still struggle to have any sort of presence even in their own towns/cities. We also need to give clubs time to grow their organisations and develop players without the constant threat of relegation. Look at London, it's a market RL needs to be in. We get promoted but because of the uncertainty of relegation some of our best young players get picked off by other clubs that don't produce players. Bradford, Toulouse and Newcastle all bring something different to the table, larger markets, new markets, they develop players and have good youth systems. They bring much greater added value and would increase the average attendances of the comp. 

RL has lost so much ground in recent years in terms of coverage to sports like Boxing, Union, MMA it needs to make up this ground but it can only do so by taking a strategic approach and bringing clubs into SL that correspond to those strategies. Promotion and Relegation is too much of a lottery and organised chaos to allow the sport to grow. Richard Lewis was spot on with this approach and since he departed rl the profile and value of the SL competition has hit a low. 

Don't disagree with any of that 

But , give me the criteria ? 

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We’ve had licensing before and how successful was it? Still playing the game in all the same places we were before. Im yet to be convinced that there is a market for RL in places other than certain parts of northern England and South West France. 

London are playing in SL this year - and going better than many imagined- but that doesn’t seem to have captured the imagination of many of the London public  .

Edited by mightyship
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44 minutes ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

Yeah so much work goes into being in Super League finding Club Sponsors, organizing Playing/Training facilities, Coaching/Admin Staff,  youth Academies and now Reserve grade sides... and in one bad season all that work can be undone with relegation. Then there is the fact that the UK game will suffer a loss of profile & revenue if the more popular sides like Wigan, St Helens, Warrington, Hull, Leeds are relegated as it has done with the loss of Bradford ( but Bradford caused there own problems with poor financial management).Also the threat of relegation prevents half the sides in super league from long term planning.

I get that promotion relegation is a UK sporting tradition and the dream of rising up through the divisions on the strength of your on field performance to get promoted to Super league provides a glimmer of hope to people. But the reality is Professional sport requires elite coaching, player development, training and playing facilities which needs funding. Funding requires Administration. Promotion Relegation is fine for amateur or semi pro competitions and works for Soccer in UK as they have a fully professional league below to be relegated to. In case of Rugby League in the UK on field playing criteria cannot be the sole criteria for promotion to a Sustainable professional Competition. 

Unfortunately Newton's Law applies to sport as well as physics 

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5 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

Where's scotchy1? I would be interested in his views.

Probably at the ' rounders ' , he likes that 

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2 minutes ago, mightyship said:

We’ve had licensing before and how successful was it? Still playing the game in all the same places we were before. Im yet to be convinced that there is a market for RL in places other than certain parts of northern England and South West France. 

London are playing in SL this year - and going better than many imagined- but that doesn’t seem to have captured the imagination of many of the London public  .

RL is still largely unknown in London. London is a massive place we need at least 4 teams in London. We need to pay celebrities like KSI to do RL videos. We need cross sport videos with big London football clubs. We need high school programs teaching kids about RL because the rugby the young ones are exposed to in London is the one that shall not be named. And most importantly we need England to win the 2021 rlwc as it will gain big attention.

The market is there we just got develop it a bit more then the sport will take off. It won't be easy there's Chelsea, Crystal Palace,West Ham , Arsenal, Tottenham Hotspur, QPR, Brentford, Charlton Athletic, Harlequins, London Irish and Saracens. There's a lot of sports team to drag peoples attention away. London along with New York City in the United States is the most congested sports market on the planet. We got to think outside the box we also need to convert fans from other sports to grow. It won't be easy but the market is there. Will RL be bigger than soccer and the other code in London? No but we can carve out our niche and there is still room for growth. Promotion and relegation doesn't help too much lack of security.

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39 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Unfortunately Newton's Law applies to sport as well as physics 

But not to weather ballons lol

Why does Super League need promotion/relegation every year based solely on playing performance? There are so many other factors, does the Club being promoted have the necessary financial backing? does it have suitable player development pathways? What the standard of Playing and training facilities? What about marketing and administration staff?... Hang on stuff all that how about every year promoting a club no matter what. Then give them 3 months to get everything in place. While relegating another Club who will now find it extremely difficult to keep things like Sponsors, Facilities, Player Development pathways they have worked for years to attain.

Its Great that West Wales etc have a dream of making Super League to Aspire to but it needs a rethink currently its based on short term season to season thinking. Maybe promotion could go back to being based on 3 - 5 year licenses based on a combination of criteria including on field performance.

Edited by kiwis 13 6
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Bet all these not wanting relegation are already in SL, what's point fans paying good money ( and the club themselves) if there's nothing to aim for. This is a BRITISH sport and i don't care how many non British teams come in but we want promotions and relegation, no wonder the media don't take us seriously. 

Edited by MADREDNIGE
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Rather than franchise, shouldn't it be that promoted teams have to meet strict criteria eg owning their own ground (or at least in control), financially independent, youth system, reserve teams, feeder clubs, average attendances etc.

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4 minutes ago, northernmouse said:

Rather than franchise, shouldn't it be that promoted teams have to meet strict criteria eg owning their own ground (or at least in control), financially independent, youth system, reserve teams, feeder clubs, average attendances etc.

We all know what a farce licensing was.

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25 minutes ago, northernmouse said:

Rather than franchise, shouldn't it be that promoted teams have to meet strict criteria eg owning their own ground (or at least in control), financially independent, youth system, reserve teams, feeder clubs, average attendances etc.

As long as exactly the same rules are applied to all the incumbents of a franchise from the outset. Might make it a small league though. 

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The main reason for the mess the last round of licensing brought, was the failure of the authorities to remove licences from clubs failing to meet standards! Without that, what is the point?

Wakefield should have been out at the time, and a club like Featherstone could well have got a future licence with the amazing work they were doing on and off the field at the time. 

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1 hour ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

as it has done with the loss of Bradford ( but Bradford caused there own problems with poor financial management).Also the threat of relegation prevents half the sides in super league from long term planning.

There's no doubt that we've had some shocking financial mismanagement, but as a matter of 100% fact, we were relegated in the one and only season that there has been relegation in the past decade (up to this year, obviously)

If there'd be no relegation that season, we could have taken our six point deduction, probably finished bottom (or close to it) and then re-built from there. What happened after that relegation has been one disaster after another, and we're only just getting over it now.

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Ok Licence / franchise 20 Clubs then. 

SLE to have 250 Shares.

15 Shares each for SL1 Clubs, 10 Shares each for SL2 Clubs. 

1 x Licence relegated to sign over (lose) 5 Shares to SLE whom then issue 5 extra shares to 1 x licence earning promotion. 

Quarterly Dividends issued based on shareholding from annual profit, I.e after Prizemoneys and other operating costs. 

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3 hours ago, gazza77 said:

As long as exactly the same rules are applied to all the incumbents of a franchise from the outset. Might make it a small league though. 

Teams with poor grounds still not rectified that part of the critiria 20 years on, still we've covered that a thousand times! 

Edited by MADREDNIGE
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2 hours ago, The Daddy said:

Gonna get a lot of hate off this post but I only say this as RL fan living in London where the sport has very little visibility. 

The whole concept of promotion and relegation, jeopardy etc does nothing to benefit the sport. The SL competition needs to have the most commercially viable clubs in the competition and ones which open the comp up to new markets. Your casual sports fan or multinational sponsor is not interested in clubs like Wakefield, Huddersfield, Salford and despite 100 years in the UK league structure these clubs still struggle to have any sort of presence even in their own towns/cities. We also need to give clubs time to grow their organisations and develop players without the constant threat of relegation. Look at London, it's a market RL needs to be in. We get promoted but because of the uncertainty of relegation some of our best young players get picked off by other clubs that don't produce players. Bradford, Toulouse and Newcastle all bring something different to the table, larger markets, new markets, they develop players and have good youth systems. They bring much greater added value and would increase the average attendances of the comp. 

RL has lost so much ground in recent years in terms of coverage to sports like Boxing, Union, MMA it needs to make up this ground but it can only do so by taking a strategic approach and bringing clubs into SL that correspond to those strategies. Promotion and Relegation is too much of a lottery and organised chaos to allow the sport to grow. Richard Lewis was spot on with this approach and since he departed rl the profile and value of the SL competition has hit a low. 

Complete nonsense. And I say that with a London hat on. Licensing nearly ruined many non-SL clubs and did no favours for the clubs in SL. During licensing London’s crowds slowly declined (as Quims) and the end of year games with nothing to play for were utterly dire and boring. Last year (middle 8 and this year have been great and exciting for London). Hopefully London will stay up but if they don’t it will be because the middle 8s was removed - a better  concept than one up one down.

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8 minutes ago, Lobbygobbler said:

Complete nonsense. And I say that with a London hat on. Licensing nearly ruined many non-SL clubs and did no favours for the clubs in SL. During licensing London’s crowds slowly declined (as Quims) and the end of year games with nothing to play for were utterly dire and boring. Last year (middle 8 and this year have been great and exciting for London). Hopefully London will stay up but if they don’t it will be because the middle 8s was removed - a better  concept than one up one down.

What clubs did it nearly ruin?

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Also another issue what if Catalans were relegated after one bad season would mean France has no top level professional team, Catalans (like Super league Clubs) is a multi million pound business that would be massively negatively impacted, but as well as that Playing numbers in France could be impacted with no Super League team to aspire to. Dacia may withdraw Sponsorship from Super League as a result as no longer have reach into the French market...    There are a heck of a lot of other things to consider regarding the impact of Relegation to Super League as a Business and to the Sport as a whole.

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