Scubby Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, kiwis 13 6 said: Also another issue what if Catalans were relegated after one bad season would mean France has no top level professional team, Catalans (like Super league Clubs) is a multi million pound business that would be massively negatively impacted, but as well as that Playing numbers in France could be impacted with no Super League team to aspire to. Dacia may withdraw Sponsorship from Super League as a result as no longer have reach into the French market... There are a heck of a lot of other things to consider regarding the impact of Relegation to Super League as a Business and to the Sport as a whole. To be fair, if SL really wanted to they could keep P&R solely for UK clubs and offer a place in the competition for up to 3 overseas clubs. If you really wanted the jeopardy to relegate Catalans or Toronto, then they can only be replaced by like for like (either another club from France or Canada). Why Catalans face dropping into the Championship is an absolute farce! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Lofter Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, kiwis 13 6 said: Also another issue what if Catalans were relegated after one bad season would mean France has no top level professional team, Catalans (like Super league Clubs) is a multi million pound business that would be massively negatively impacted, but as well as that Playing numbers in France could be impacted with no Super League team to aspire to. Dacia may withdraw Sponsorship from Super League as a result as no longer have reach into the French market... There are a heck of a lot of other things to consider regarding the impact of Relegation to Super League as a Business and to the Sport as a whole. Very nearly happened a couple of years ago....Catalans mastered Leigh for 80 minutes in the MPG to keep their club going. The consensus seemed to be that if they had lost that one game then it would be curtains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenGilesRL Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Trouble is, the last time we had licensing, nothing changed apart from clubs treading water with stifled crowds at the bottom due to a lack of interest, promises of updated facilities to meet standards that were never forthcoming but the RFL kept them in anyway, and a feeling of disconnect in the Championship negatively affecting crowds and drama at the back end with little to play for. So whilst I agree with some of your points, in my opnion we need to find a way to increase the money in the Championship with a lucrative tv deal, to lessen the impact of relegation financially, to allow the RFL to implement minimum standards in the Super League that will not be lost due to relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 35 minutes ago, BenGilesRL said: Trouble is, the last time we had licensing, nothing changed apart from clubs treading water with stifled crowds at the bottom due to a lack of interest, promises of updated facilities to meet standards that were never forthcoming but the RFL kept them in anyway, and a feeling of disconnect in the Championship negatively affecting crowds and drama at the back end with little to play for. So whilst I agree with some of your points, in my opnion we need to find a way to increase the money in the Championship with a lucrative tv deal, to lessen the impact of relegation financially, to allow the RFL to implement minimum standards in the Super League that will not be lost due to relegation. More money in the championship isn't enough to replace the loss of interest locally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCKonstantine Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 BrAdFoRd ShOuLd Be In SuPeR lEaGuE bEcAuSe ThEy GeT bIg CrOwDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedfordshire Bronco Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 7 hours ago, The Daddy said: Gonna get a lot of hate off this post but I only say this as RL fan living in London where the sport has very little visibility. The whole concept of promotion and relegation, jeopardy etc does nothing to benefit the sport. The SL competition needs to have the most commercially viable clubs in the competition and ones which open the comp up to new markets. Your casual sports fan or multinational sponsor is not interested in clubs like Wakefield, Huddersfield, Salford and despite 100 years in the UK league structure these clubs still struggle to have any sort of presence even in their own towns/cities. We also need to give clubs time to grow their organisations and develop players without the constant threat of relegation. Look at London, it's a market RL needs to be in. We get promoted but because of the uncertainty of relegation some of our best young players get picked off by other clubs that don't produce players. Bradford, Toulouse and Newcastle all bring something different to the table, larger markets, new markets, they develop players and have good youth systems. They bring much greater added value and would increase the average attendances of the comp. RL has lost so much ground in recent years in terms of coverage to sports like Boxing, Union, MMA it needs to make up this ground but it can only do so by taking a strategic approach and bringing clubs into SL that correspond to those strategies. Promotion and Relegation is too much of a lottery and organised chaos to allow the sport to grow. Richard Lewis was spot on with this approach and since he departed rl the profile and value of the SL competition has hit a low. Yep.... Do it today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE RED ROOSTER Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Franchising did not work before at London, Salford or Bradford. It will not work this time either. As I have posted before the problem is, and was / still is at the three clubs I have named and probably with others, down to money. which affects on-field performances, spectator numbers and sponsor and media interest. Simple as, if you have a benefactor who can afford to mantain a junior development structure and fund the club to the salary cap limit but can also create another team - the one off the pitch that can turn better on field performances into crowd numbers. Then issues over relegation do not arise. The problem is most clubs do not have that sort of funding and to quote a Stevoism - "if you can't pay you can't play" Quote When the pinch comes the common people will turn out to be more intelligent than the clever ones. I certainly hope so. George Orwell You either own NFTs or women’s phone numbers but not both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 So we need franchising because scrapping the super 8s and having a championship side with a £1.2m spend didn't guarantee the rest SL status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 I have found this season compelling and there hasn’t been that midsummer sense of the season dragging, which I have had in previous seasons. That is purely down to the relegation battle, which has kept people talking and interested with Saints running away with the LLS. Maybe the answer is the 2x10 idea, which would result in an extremely competitive SL1 while protecting those who go down? The tricky bit is then who makes up SL1 and SL2. And, for that, licensing may well be essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastLondonMike Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Personally I'm a fan of licensing, if done correctly, but don't think you have to remove promotion (in essence) to achieve it. I'd have licences handed out with clubs graded annually over a three year period. 'A' being the best, 'B' being good, but with room for improvement, 'C' being not good enough. anyone picking up a C grade would be notified of what areas need to be improved upon to gain a 'B' status. Any clubs picking up 2 'C' grades in the three year period would be demoted. Allowing clubs to prepare for life outside SL. Any club not in SL could apply for membership/inclusion at any point but must hit a 'B' grade to do so. Which would allow ambitious clubs and potential new clubs a chance to gain entrance. only possible drawback might be around TV deals and guaranteeing a certain amount of games, with clubs potentially dropping out. i think licensing of some form will return to SL.. but I think we're a year or two away from it happening. Newham Dockers - Champions 2013. Rugby League For East London. 100% Cockney Rugby League!Twitter: @NewhamDockersRL - Get following! www.newhamdockers.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Man of Kent said: I have found this season compelling and there hasn’t been that midsummer sense of the season dragging, which I have had in previous seasons. That is purely down to the relegation battle, which has kept people talking and interested with Saints running away with the LLS. Maybe the answer is the 2x10 idea, which would result in an extremely competitive SL1 while protecting those who go down? The tricky bit is then who makes up SL1 and SL2. And, for that, licensing may well be essential. Well, leaving Saints out of it, the 6 teams below them are all candidates for the playoffs. This is at least as exciting as worrying if Leeds get relegated. And in reality its the longwordingermanmeaninglaughingatLeeds which is drawing the attention. It's all a bit "meh" if it's anyone else. I do not want to see any relegation, I want to see viable expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjonn Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 7 hours ago, Manx RL said: Factual yep, but we know what the author means... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said: Well, leaving Saints out of it, the 6 teams below them are all candidates for the playoffs. This is at least as exciting as worrying if Leeds get relegated. And in reality its the longwordingermanmeaninglaughingatLeeds which is drawing the attention. It's all a bit "meh" if it's anyone else. I do not want to see any relegation, I want to see viable expansion. Fair dos on the playoff race but at the other end it’s really not about laughing at Leeds. The threat of the trapdoor has caused all to raise their game, from Leeds sacking Dave Furner and signing a half, to KR sacking Tim Sheens & bringing in Tony Smith, while London have been fiercely competitive in almost every game I’ve seen them play. It’s going to the wire and that’s great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said: .... It’s going to the wire and that’s great. No Warrington are not in the relegation race! If only... Only joking Wire fans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluded pom? Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said: No Warrington are not in the relegation race! If only... Only joking Wire fans... When is it going to be their year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackroman Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 8 hours ago, The Daddy said: Gonna get a lot of hate off this post but I only say this as RL fan living in London where the sport has very little visibility. The whole concept of promotion and relegation, jeopardy etc does nothing to benefit the sport. The SL competition needs to have the most commercially viable clubs in the competition and ones which open the comp up to new markets. Your casual sports fan or multinational sponsor is not interested in clubs like Wakefield, Huddersfield, Salford and despite 100 years in the UK league structure these clubs still struggle to have any sort of presence even in their own towns/cities. We also need to give clubs time to grow their organisations and develop players without the constant threat of relegation. Look at London, it's a market RL needs to be in. We get promoted but because of the uncertainty of relegation some of our best young players get picked off by other clubs that don't produce players. Bradford, Toulouse and Newcastle all bring something different to the table, larger markets, new markets, they develop players and have good youth systems. They bring much greater added value and would increase the average attendances of the comp. RL has lost so much ground in recent years in terms of coverage to sports like Boxing, Union, MMA it needs to make up this ground but it can only do so by taking a strategic approach and bringing clubs into SL that correspond to those strategies. Promotion and Relegation is too much of a lottery and organised chaos to allow the sport to grow. Richard Lewis was spot on with this approach and since he departed rl the profile and value of the SL competition has hit a low. Why didn't you post this last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev p Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Sport is all about winning & losing. Part of promotion & relegation! It’s not just a UK thing it’s pretty much worldwide, except for North American & Australian sports. You lose the incentive for all clubs outside super league if you pull up the drawbridge. To get stability relegation should be on points over past 3 seasons, so one bad season does not relegate you, plus min of 3 years for promoted club to stabilise. So every year would be one up & one down. Simple! I’m all for expansion, but on ability, not geography! If franchise was in football, Bournemouth & Wimbledon would never have been in top division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Plow Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, kev p said: Sport is all about winning & losing. Part of promotion & relegation! It’s not just a UK thing it’s pretty much worldwide, except for North American & Australian sports. You lose the incentive for all clubs outside super league if you pull up the drawbridge. To get stability relegation should be on points over past 3 seasons, so one bad season does not relegate you, plus min of 3 years for promoted club to stabilise. So every year would be one up & one down. Simple! I’m all for expansion, but on ability, not geography! If franchise was in football, Bournemouth & Wimbledon would never have been in top division. I agree with you that losers in sport should suffer the consequences and I’m a fan of P&R but I think in RL which as limited money, resources and fans it does more damage than good. Yes the Qualifers were exciting and this seasons relegation battle has been interesting but look how damaging relegation has been to Widnes and Leigh, Hull KR haven’t really improved since yoyoing back to SL and it looks like London will go straight down. How many Championship clubs would you say could become SL clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx RL Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 1 hour ago, redjonn said: yep, but we know what the author means... - Adepto Successu Per Tributum Fuga - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Daddy Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 44 minutes ago, Mr Plow said: I agree with you that losers in sport should suffer the consequences and I’m a fan of P&R but I think in RL which as limited money, resources and fans it does more damage than good. Yes the Qualifers were exciting and this seasons relegation battle has been interesting but look how damaging relegation has been to Widnes and Leigh, Hull KR haven’t really improved since yoyoing back to SL and it looks like London will go straight down. How many Championship clubs would you say could become SL clubs? Bradford, Toulouse, Toronto, Newcastle & York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Daddy said: Bradford, Toulouse, Toronto, Newcastle & York Still waiting to see your criteria ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Daddy Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 24 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: Still waiting to see your criteria ? Tomorrow mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 17 minutes ago, The Daddy said: Tomorrow mate Tomorrow never comes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denton Rovers RLFC Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 9 hours ago, MADREDNIGE said: Bet all these not wanting relegation are already in SL, what's point fans paying good money ( and the club themselves) if there's nothing to aim for. This is a BRITISH sport and i don't care how many non British teams come in but we want promotions and relegation, no wonder the media don't take us seriously. If your club never got promoted but were winning your league and cup comp or say doing ok/getting to finals within your division would you still go or toss it off as a bad un? Given the disparity of those teams winning the cups/league at the top tier with little chance of others getting near in the league (Warrington for instance) should their fans just sack it off season after season? What would you do if your club (Apologies but I don't know who that is) got into the top league and came straight out the back door again but millions in debt and just a handful of solid pros mixed with some kids for the following year because your owners/chairpersons needed to claw back as much as they could from the debt? What if they went into bankruptcy because of that one year venture, it's not small potatoes like it was in the 70s/80s with the two division system where there was at least a 50/50 chance the teams coming up could compete and maybe hang around more than a year but worst case they didn't expend a ton of money trying to do so? The media not showing RL has got zilch to do with the format of the leagues, that's just utterly ludicrous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omott91 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Interesting opinion on the OP. https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/07/19/lessons-that-british-rugby-league-never-learn/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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