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Can Ralph Rimmer get Ottawa to the starting gate?


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16 hours ago, John WP Fan said:

Yeah, I do see that. I just wanted to make it clear that the claim that we are ignoring his arguments is completely untrue. But this will probably be the last time to try to engage, unless he suddenly starts discussing in earnest instead of merely repeating the same tired lines.

John

I have read all you post, and I note the following:-

You talk of how sport is “done” in North America with “top down growth” where a sport is showcased at a high level that then inspires people to play especially where high salaries are on offer.

I’m sorry John but the Elephant in the room is North American Rugby Union that has, without any top down presence, and without any big salaries grown to a reported 3,000 clubs and 150,000 registered players.

This is the real reason why Rugby League cannot take off in North America because Rugby Union has beaten Rugby League to it. You can see this the world over where Union deliberately takes on any League development wherever it appears to crush it such as Lebanon being an example.

You go on to talk about “having no issue with our team being made up of players from other countries”. And “To expect Canadians in a Championship line up now is just not realistic”.

But it’s not about you having no issue with importing players or the “realism” of the matter. Superleague has serious issues about NA clubs dragging talent from here to stock your teams. Like it or not Perez didn’t say he’d take our players, he said on behalf of TWP he would provide them from North America. .This was just nonsense, it did not happen and so why shouldn't TWP stand the consequences of this and have their guest invitation revoked. 

You talk about me being overly focussed on Perez who you say became irrelevant. I am not at all focused on him personally, I am focused on what he promised on behalf of TWP and that was the promise of more players and TV money made on behalf of Argyle and TWP. Not a single red cent in money and what few NA players were delivered were sacked. That was a disgrace.

You say “I agree TWP could and should be doing more to develop youth rugby league here in Ontario. I do believe it will happen, but apparently not on the schedule you expect”.  As I type this I am losing patience with you as you know darn well Argyle could not be bothered to pay Bob Jowett a few dollars to join Canada RL to get the ball rolling. There is no “schedule” John simple as that.

More recently you have tried to claim success through TWP’s alleged crowds that are irrelevant here, leading to the invention of an apparent large TWP UK following.that in your words “have attracted larger crowds (often record crowds) almost everywhere they have played in the UK”. I have the records and this is plain nonsense John, your making it all up….

15 hours ago, Jayme2020 said:

The thing is it could be tied up in the court in Canada for years.

No it could not. Superleague (Europe) has no contract at all with TWP, the two entities have never met, never sat down and discussed anything nor signed any agreement

On 07/08/2019 at 00:33, Raumati Rugby said:

 As Parksider has repeated once or twice, there's no TV revenue and no development on the horizon either....2 key ingredients to them being INVITED.

Invited by the RFL and NOT Superleague. Be careful about talking "repetition" I only repeat the facts because people repeat the nonsenses about what TWP supposedly bring to the game none of which are what they actually promised to blag their way in. Since they've been found out big time but as above people conveniently forget the criteria for success and invent their own, then they repeat that nonsense daily.

TWP the glamour club that is showing the RL world how to market the game properly, how to open eyeballs across the world etc etc etc when all it is is a rich mans massive loss making plaything.......

Discuss?

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54 minutes ago, Jayme2020 said:

The Parksider

By the league granting them a team in the courts eyes thats a contract atleast in Canada.

A team within the authority of the RFL ? Yes , SL ? No 

Just pointing out the facts , personally I agree with you , if they don't let them in , it will be a disgrace , and potentially damage the whole sport 

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6 hours ago, The Parksider said:

John

I have read all you post, and I note the following:-

You talk of how sport is “done” in North America with “top down growth” where a sport is showcased at a high level that then inspires people to play especially where high salaries are on offer.

I’m sorry John but the Elephant in the room is North American Rugby Union that has, without any top down presence, and without any big salaries grown to a reported 3,000 clubs and 150,000 registered players.

This is the real reason why Rugby League cannot take off in North America because Rugby Union has beaten Rugby League to it. You can see this the world over where Union deliberately takes on any League development wherever it appears to crush it such as Lebanon being an example.

You go on to talk about “having no issue with our team being made up of players from other countries”. And “To expect Canadians in a Championship line up now is just not realistic”.

But it’s not about you having no issue with importing players or the “realism” of the matter. Superleague has serious issues about NA clubs dragging talent from here to stock your teams. Like it or not Perez didn’t say he’d take our players, he said on behalf of TWP he would provide them from North America. .This was just nonsense, it did not happen and so why shouldn't TWP stand the consequences of this and have their guest invitation revoked. 

You talk about me being overly focussed on Perez who you say became irrelevant. I am not at all focused on him personally, I am focused on what he promised on behalf of TWP and that was the promise of more players and TV money made on behalf of Argyle and TWP. Not a single red cent in money and what few NA players were delivered were sacked. That was a disgrace.

You say “I agree TWP could and should be doing more to develop youth rugby league here in Ontario. I do believe it will happen, but apparently not on the schedule you expect”.  As I type this I am losing patience with you as you know darn well Argyle could not be bothered to pay Bob Jowett a few dollars to join Canada RL to get the ball rolling. There is no “schedule” John simple as that.

More recently you have tried to claim success through TWP’s alleged crowds that are irrelevant here, leading to the invention of an apparent large TWP UK following.that in your words “have attracted larger crowds (often record crowds) almost everywhere they have played in the UK”. I have the records and this is plain nonsense John, your making it all up….

No it could not. Superleague (Europe) has no contract at all with TWP, the two entities have never met, never sat down and discussed anything nor signed any agreement

Invited by the RFL and NOT Superleague. Be careful about talking "repetition" I only repeat the facts because people repeat the nonsenses about what TWP supposedly bring to the game none of which are what they actually promised to blag their way in. Since they've been found out big time but as above people conveniently forget the criteria for success and invent their own, then they repeat that nonsense daily.

TWP the glamour club that is showing the RL world how to market the game properly, how to open eyeballs across the world etc etc etc when all it is is a rich mans massive loss making plaything.......

Discuss?

Re: Rugby Union

Yes, it's bigger here than League, but the vast, vast majority (I'd say more than 95%) of people here have no idea that there are two codes of rugby. So any presence by Union only makes RL more credible, and when you establish a professional team, some people will show up to see them and then later learn about the differences. And in my opinion, the differences make for a much better, more exciting game. I have seen no evidence of Union being an obstacle to RL here, though I am well aware of the dark history elsewhere.

Re: supply of players

See my discussion of how a modest dilution of talent is worth accepting as a league grows. Allowing several new teams in at once would be a real problem. Letting one in at a time and spacing them out as the game grows will help the sport.

Re: relations between the team and Canada RL

I just messaged Bob Jowett about this. His response (which he agreed to let me quote):

Hi John, Wolfpack support of CRLA has been much better of late. TWP have given some great support to the Georgina Griffins and Haldimand Wolfcubs and have supported a high school game in BC. Haven’t seen the social media post but I have no issue at all with David Argyle.

Re Wolfpack boosting attendance in the UK

I have seen several posts supporting this claim. It would be tedious to dig them up but I will if necessary. I am certainly not making anything up (and it's "you're", not "your"). If you have records handy that contradict this, please produce them.

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16 minutes ago, John WP Fan said:

Re: Rugby Union

Yes, it's bigger here than League, but the vast, vast majority (I'd say more than 95%) of people here have no idea that there are two codes of rugby. So any presence by Union only makes RL more credible, and when you establish a professional team, some people will show up to see them and then later learn about the differences. And in my opinion, the differences make for a much better, more exciting game. I have seen no evidence of Union being an obstacle to RL here, though I am well aware of the dark history elsewhere.

Re: supply of players

See my discussion of how a modest dilution of talent is worth accepting as a league grows. Allowing several new teams in at once would be a real problem. Letting one in at a time and spacing them out as the game grows will help the sport.

Re: relations between the team and Canada RL

I just messaged Bob Jowett about this. His response (which he agreed to let me quote):

Hi John, Wolfpack support of CRLA has been much better of late. TWP have given some great support to the Georgina Griffins and Haldimand Wolfcubs and have supported a high school game in BC. Haven’t seen the social media post but I have no issue at all with David Argyle.

Re Wolfpack boosting attendance in the UK

I have seen several posts supporting this claim. It would be tedious to dig them up but I will if necessary. I am certainly not making anything up (and it's "you're", not "your"). If you have records handy that contradict this, please produce them.

Prepare for all that to be ignored mate.

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Given that the only way we will see Canadians playing RL professionally in the next couple of decades is by getting some with union experience to swap codes I don't see it being a problem 

I do agree with John WP fan that integration of NA teams has to be a very gradual thing , I have suggested no more than 2 in a 14 team comp 

Good to see some contact between the 2 organisations 

Yes they create interest , both positive and negative , how much that creates any increases in income is negligible

Just my two pennorth

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24 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes they create interest , both positive and negative , how much that creates any increases in income is negligible

The income to existing teams is small but not negligible so far, IMHO. I believe the WP have increased attendance some, and their fee to join the RFL, along with their passing on prize money and central funding has been a benefit. If they have increased interest for other new teams to be added, those new teams should pay a larger entry fee. Over time I expect that to make the broadcast rights worth more, in multiple regions. I again point to the example of the NHL's growth from 6 teams in the northeast in 1967 to 32 teams spanning North America in 2020-21, with a huge growth in overall attendance, revenue and salary cap, generating a larger pool of top-flight players worldwide. The new Seattle franchise paid $US 650,000,000 to join! My hopes for RL are more modest, but along a similar path.

As a personal example, I traveled to England last spring to attend both Magic Weekend and the Summer Bash, buying tickets, food and drink, and contributing to the local economies of Newcastle and Blackpool. I also bought a Salford Red Devils jersey (the yellow one with the bee on it). Over time more fans will make similar trips. For now it's in the low dozens of people coming each year, but that can grow to hundreds and thousands over time.

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25 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Given that the only way we will see Canadians playing RL professionally in the next couple of decades is by getting some with union experience to swap codes I don't see it being a problem 

I do agree with John WP fan that integration of NA teams has to be a very gradual thing , I have suggested no more than 2 in a 14 team comp 

Good to see some contact between the 2 organisations 

Yes they create interest , both positive and negative , how much that creates any increases in income is negligible

Just my two pennorth

As John has so aptly put it...the whole thing just needs a bit of time and support...things are happening in a positive way over here...just a little time Gubrsats...and some cooperation and support along the way.

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9 minutes ago, John WP Fan said:

The income to existing teams is small but not negligible so far, IMHO. I believe the WP have increased attendance some, and their fee to join the RFL, along with their passing on prize money and central funding has been a benefit. If they have increased interest for other new teams to be added, those new teams should pay a larger entry fee. Over time I expect that to make the broadcast rights worth more, in multiple regions. I again point to the example of the NHL's growth from 6 teams in the northeast in 1967 to 32 teams spanning North America in 2020-21, with a huge growth in overall attendance, revenue and salary cap, generating a larger pool of top-flight players worldwide. The new Seattle franchise paid $US 650,000,000 to join! My hopes for RL are more modest, but along a similar path.

As a personal example, I traveled to England last spring to attend both Magic Weekend and the Summer Bash, buying tickets, food and drink, and contributing to the local economies of Newcastle and Blackpool. I also bought a Salford Red Devils jersey (the yellow one with the bee on it). Over time more fans will make similar trips. For now it's in the low dozens of people coming each year, but that can grow to hundreds and thousands over time.

Yes John , if you remember we met in the Manchester 

" Over time " being the issue here , how long between entering the structure , and seeing the financial gains to the existing members is as always ,the problem 

 

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8 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

As John has so aptly put it...the whole thing just needs a bit of time and support...things are happening in a positive way over here...just a little time Gubrsats...and some cooperation and support along the way.

" time and tide waits for no man " as you no doubt know Kman 

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Just now, GUBRATS said:

Yes John , if you remember we met in the Manchester 

" Over time " being the issue here , how long between entering the structure , and seeing the financial gains to the existing members is as always ,the problem 

 

Yes, I remember you coming over to introduce yourself!

Can you help me estimate the benefit to the existing teams so far?:

  • fee paid to enter the RFL = ?
  • central funding declined = ?
  • prize money declined = ?
  • hundreds or perhaps a few thousand pounds per team for whom the WP have brought more fans?

I would expect that New York and Ottawa will pay a higher entry fee to join, and that any subsequent teams would pay even more.

And what is the down side? In what way are the Wolfpack hurting any existing team? 

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11 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

" time and tide waits for no man " as you no doubt know Kman 

That is why its finally time to pack the boat up and hit the water...no need to fear.  The crossing must be made before the weather turns!

Ottawa should have been in next year but Rimmer has discouraged this (along with others).  We have sat on the shore long enough worrying and fretting like some old woman.

WE GO!

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21 minutes ago, John WP Fan said:

Yes, I remember you coming over to introduce yourself!

Can you help me estimate the benefit to the existing teams so far?:

  • fee paid to enter the RFL = ?
  • central funding declined = ?
  • prize money declined = ?
  • hundreds or perhaps a few thousand pounds per team for whom the WP have brought more fans?

I would expect that New York and Ottawa will pay a higher entry fee to join, and that any subsequent teams would pay even more.

And what is the down side? In what way are the Wolfpack hurting any existing team? 

No idea what would/has happened to the entrance fee/prize money or central funding , I doubt it has been ' divied ' up among the other L1/Championship clubs but will I assume be used by the RFL for something positive 

I don't doubt Toronto's initial novelty value has driven some extra income in the lower tiers ( although that will be ending shortly ) 

We will see how any future clubs are treated on the entry fee 

' Downsides ' ? , I suppose up to now only Leigh initially with the recruitment policy Paul instigated , but again a temporary point that is now reversing it would seem ?

The SL clubs won't benefit from that novelty factor , although they should be better placed sponsorship wise , but I doubt it , it will be a different ' ball game ' with them than the lower tiers , how long they see the ' long game ' to be could be the problem 

Anyway the rains are coming and that grass won't cut itself 

All the best 

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8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

No idea what would/has happened to the entrance fee/prize money or central funding , I doubt it has been ' divied ' up among the other L1/Championship clubs but will I assume be used by the RFL for something positive 

I wish there were more transparency around issues like this. The League 1 and Championship clubs ought to have benefited directly from the WP passing on central funding and prize money. And every club in the RFL should have received a portion of the expansion fee. To me that is a key driver for expansion: money in the pockets of the existing teams, that they can use to attract more/better talent or otherwise improve their teams.

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2 minutes ago, John WP Fan said:

I wish there were more transparency around issues like this. The League 1 and Championship clubs ought to have benefited directly from the WP passing on central funding and prize money. And every club in the RFL should have received a portion of the expansion fee. To me that is a key driver for expansion: money in the pockets of the existing teams, that they can use to attract more/better talent or otherwise improve their teams.

As a final post before getting the lawn mower out 

Without doubt a transparent and open explanation of any direct financial benefits received by the clubs would have certainly muffled any criticisms of their entry 

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8 hours ago, The Parksider said:

More recently you have tried to claim success through TWP’s alleged crowds that are irrelevant here, leading to the invention of an apparent large TWP UK following.that in your words “have attracted larger crowds (often record crowds) almost everywhere they have played in the UK”. I have the records and this is plain nonsense John, your making it all up….

OK, here are some references supporting my claim that the WP have helped UK attendances:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_RFL_Championship_season_results

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_RFL_Championship_season_results

(you need to compare the Toronto games against others to see the trend)

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21 hours ago, John WP Fan said:

Re: Rugby Union....I have seen no evidence of Union being an obstacle to RL here, though I am well aware of the dark history elsewhere.

Re: supply of players.......See my discussion of how a modest dilution of talent is worth accepting as a league grows. Allowing several new teams in at once would be a real problem. Letting one in at a time and spacing them out as the game grows will help the sport.

Re: Canada RL.......Hi John, Wolfpack support of CRLA has been much better of late. 

Re Wolfpack boosting attendance in the UK......I have seen several posts supporting this claim. It would be tedious to dig them up but I will if necessary. 

Union in Canadayou pretend nobody knows about RL in Canada yet it dates back the the late 1920's when it had some successes. You pretend that Union and League have not been competing for attention from Canadians for the  last 90 years, but your not telling us the fact union managed to kill off league twice. As I say and as you ignore Union have won the battle of the codes in Canada with 324 clubs and 29,000 players..............................................What has League in  Canada done in the last 90 years John?

Supply of players - "A modest dilution of talent" is your personal spin. Superleague cut from 14 clubs to 12 because of the talent shortage. When Neil Hudgell's HKR were relegated the SL bosses were apalled and to stop this they considered going to 14 again but they could not do this john as the talent pool was reducing. So they had to let HKR be relegated.

You talk about "as the league grows" but the fact is it is NOT growing, it has shrunk from 14 to 12 so where do you get this idea the league can just grow - especially and laughably as TWP or any other Canadian club can't develop any players? What TWP do that is appalling is they use Argyles money to take a dozen good players out of Superleague, and make them waste their time and talent in the Championship. What should happen here is the Championship should be salary capped, all the best players need to be in Superleague, and TWP need to re-sign all the NA players they sacked and start looking for more.

Re Canada RL Did you ask Bob Jowett when he feels his organisation will be developing SL quality players to stock Canadian clubs? If so please give me Bob's timescale for this??  All you seemed to ask him was was he OK with Mr. Argyle and even if he wasn't he'd be scared to say.

Re- Wolfpack boosting attendances in the UK. This is a terrible point as a Wolfpack visit to a Championship club may add a couple of hundred to the crowd, but this has nothing to do with Superleague. I was there when TWP visited Leeds for the play off game. A below average attendance of 11,565 turned up, I saw a few TWP fans and said hello to a couple. Only 6,500 at Warrington for the TWP game when TWP disgraced themselves.

I've already done the research into who does boost Championship attendances and last season it was Leigh, Featherstone and Halifax who created all the big home crowds for the championship clubs - which is why your excusing yourself from looking it up........

Now I have answered your points answer mine

Perez said he would bring us players pretty quickly with grid iron conversions - where are they? Perez engaged some NA players - what happened to them?? When will TWP actually manage to develop let's  say about 6-7 SL quality Canadian players??

Perez said he would bring us TV riches where are they John?? When will we see them??

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55 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Union in Canadayou pretend nobody knows about RL in Canada yet it dates back the the late 1920's when it had some successes. You pretend that Union and League have not been competing for attention from Canadians for the  last 90 years, but your not telling us the fact union managed to kill off league twice. As I say and as you ignore Union have won the battle of the codes in Canada with 324 clubs and 29,000 players..............................................What has League in  Canada done in the last 90 years John?

Supply of players - "A modest dilution of talent" is your personal spin. Superleague cut from 14 clubs to 12 because of the talent shortage. When Neil Hudgell's HKR were relegated the SL bosses were apalled and to stop this they considered going to 14 again but they could not do this john as the talent pool was reducing. So they had to let HKR be relegated.

You talk about "as the league grows" but the fact is it is NOT growing, it has shrunk from 14 to 12 so where do you get this idea the league can just grow - especially and laughably as TWP or any other Canadian club can't develop any players? What TWP do that is appalling is they use Argyles money to take a dozen good players out of Superleague, and make them waste their time and talent in the Championship. What should happen here is the Championship should be salary capped, all the best players need to be in Superleague, and TWP need to re-sign all the NA players they sacked and start looking for more.

Re Canada RL Did you ask Bob Jowett when he feels his organisation will be developing SL quality players to stock Canadian clubs? If so please give me Bob's timescale for this??  All you seemed to ask him was was he OK with Mr. Argyle and even if he wasn't he'd be scared to say.

Re- Wolfpack boosting attendances in the UK. This is a terrible point as a Wolfpack visit to a Championship club may add a couple of hundred to the crowd, but this has nothing to do with Superleague. I was there when TWP visited Leeds for the play off game. A below average attendance of 11,565 turned up, I saw a few TWP fans and said hello to a couple. Only 6,500 at Warrington for the TWP game when TWP disgraced themselves.

I've already done the research into who does boost Championship attendances and last season it was Leigh, Featherstone and Halifax who created all the big home crowds for the championship clubs - which is why your excusing yourself from looking it up........

Now I have answered your points answer mine

Perez said he would bring us players pretty quickly with grid iron conversions - where are they? Perez engaged some NA players - what happened to them?? When will TWP actually manage to develop let's  say about 6-7 SL quality Canadian players??

Perez said he would bring us TV riches where are they John?? When will we see them??

OK, I am now done trying with you.

You dismiss my points without really listening to them, and then ask me to answer your 2 questions yet again, which I have already answered several times (the answers, again, are "in 10-20 years" and "when the sport has a substantial following in North America, which would require a few more teams here"). You really are not listening. I have tried, despite being warned by others with more experience here that it was a waste of my time. You have long made up your mind that immediate player development and immediate TV revenue are the only things that matter, which makes it simple for you to decide that TWP are a failure in your mind. I cannot have an intelligent discussion with someone who is not willing to even consider other viewpoints. Under your conditions, the sport is doomed to a quiet death somewhere along the M62. That would be a shame, as the game really is great, and deserves a much wider audience.

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1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

...

You pretend that Union and League have not been competing for attention from Canadians for the  last 90 years, but your not telling us the fact union managed to kill off league twice.

...

 

I've already done the research into who does boost Championship attendances and last season it was Leigh, Featherstone and Halifax who created all the big home crowds for the championship clubs - which is why your excusing yourself from looking it up........

 

also, https://www.kaplaninternational.com/blog/your-vs-youre-grammar-comics-2 might help you.

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4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Union in Canadayou pretend nobody knows about RL in Canada yet it dates back the the late 1920's when it had some successes. You pretend that Union and League have not been competing for attention from Canadians for the  last 90 years, but your not telling us the fact union managed to kill off league twice. As I say and as you ignore Union have won the battle of the codes in Canada with 324 clubs and 29,000 players..............................................What has League in  Canada done in the last 90 years John?

Oh dear, I just cannot help myself. This is so ridiculous I must respond. Help me!

Yes, much of the above may be true, but it just does not matter. I am an avid sports fan, now 61 years old. I follow several sports and I played rugby (union of course) in high school. I had never heard of RL until I visited Australia and went to a game there, clueless that there was a different code. For 3 years I have been spreading the gospel to friends and family, and maybe 2 of them (friends from Wales and England) had even heard of rugby league.

It doesn't matter at all if Union has "won the battle of the codes in Canada", because almost no one here has heard of League, or any battle between the two. And Rugby Union is itself a fringe sport. The greater presence of Union here only helps RL by making people aware that any form of rugby even exists. That opens the door to show them what a great game we have.

The sporting culture in North America is really different. There is no class-based barrier to RL succeeding across the board here. These are opportunities for a new sport to prosper.

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On 08/08/2019 at 14:34, John WP Fan said:

OK, here are some references supporting my claim that the WP have helped UK attendances:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_RFL_Championship_season_results

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_RFL_Championship_season_results

(you need to compare the Toronto games against others to see the trend)

On this one John , I'd be agreeing with Parky , yes Toronto as I said earlier would have brought some ' novelty ' value in its 1st couple of seasons , I doubt that will continue after its 1st SL season 

With regards the Union v League argument in Canada , then personally I don't care how many times the dark side have ' won ' , that still doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking to build RL in NA , and having pro clubs in Canada might be the way it can happen 

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20 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

On this one John , I'd be agreeing with Parky , yes Toronto as I said earlier would have brought some ' novelty ' value in its 1st couple of seasons , I doubt that will continue after its 1st SL season 

With regards the Union v League argument in Canada , then personally I don't care how many times the dark side have ' won ' , that still doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking to build RL in NA , and having pro clubs in Canada might be the way it can happen 

Hopefully we will soon see. I agree the novelty will wear off. I think Parky was denying that they even helped crowds already.

I hope the WP become a contender soon (I don’t expect that in our first year in SL), and perhaps also they’ll be a team fans love to hate! But the local support for the team is definitely growing, and the nearly 200 who came out to support them at Bradford was impressive, I think.

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23 minutes ago, John WP Fan said:

Hopefully we will soon see. I agree the novelty will wear off. I think Parky was denying that they even helped crowds already.

I hope the WP become a contender soon (I don’t expect that in our first year in SL), and perhaps also they’ll be a team fans love to hate! But the local support for the team is definitely growing, and the nearly 200 who came out to support them at Bradford was impressive, I think.

John is right..there is little to no competition between codes in NA. The general public generally would not know there are two codes.At the very crux of it, the sport (Rugby) is entertainment..if people like what they see they will attend/watch again and RL is just that - more exciting to watch. Put a RU match on in one field and RL match on an adjacent field and RL will outdraw its cousin. If we get into SL and field a quality team against a quality SL team I predict word of mouth will draw people into the stadium and if we do reasonably well we will be either adding a section at the south end of Lamport or we will need BMO field.  And I don't think the novelty will wear off especially when Ottawa gets going and people start migrating to each others pitch. I know I will be signing up for season tickets again in 2020 and I will be making more than the odd trip to Ottawa.  Maybe even the odd trip to NY/NJ! The game is that attractive to me and i warrant to many others. As we did at Magic 2018 I expect my pal and I will be sitting beside John WP fan at a number of the aforementioned outings.1976860597_magic17.thumb.JPG.1a8c15ef0e6dc703748745e55968693c.JPG

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