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Can Ralph Rimmer get Ottawa to the starting gate?


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9 minutes ago, RobertAM said:

John is right..there is little to no competition between codes in NA. The general public generally would not know there are two codes.At the very crux of it, the sport (Rugby) is entertainment..if people like what they see they will attend/watch again and RL is just that - more exciting to watch. Put a RU match on in one field and RL match on an adjacent field and RL will outdraw its cousin. If we get into SL and field a quality team against a quality SL team I predict word of mouth will draw people into the stadium and if we do reasonably well we will be either adding a section at the south end of Lamport or we will need BMO field.  And I don't think the novelty will wear off especially when Ottawa gets going and people start migrating to each others pitch. I know I will be signing up for season tickets again in 2020 and I will be making more than the odd trip to Ottawa.  Maybe even the odd trip to NY/NJ! The game is that attractive to me and i warrant to many others. As we did at Magic 2018 I expect my pal and I will be sitting beside John WP fan at a number of the aforementioned outings.1976860597_magic17.thumb.JPG.1a8c15ef0e6dc703748745e55968693c.JPG

Robert , the novelty myself and John were talking about was in the UK , as in Toronto drawing extra fans from their opponents , nobody was insinuating the Lamport crowd was a novelty ( although some might be ?

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2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Robert , the novelty myself and John were talking about was in the UK , as in Toronto drawing extra fans from their opponents , nobody was insinuating the Lamport crowd was a novelty ( although some might be ?

Gotcha. UR right- some home fans may indeed be there because it's a fun day in the sun with a beergarden and other good looking hipsters (I'm an ex RU player myself and even older than John for pete's sake!) but they are absorbing RL even in a merry state and if they are anything like my wife they recognize they are starting to like the game itself and then they sell it to their friends etc.etc and, pretty soon you have a crowd!

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10 hours ago, John WP Fan said:

Canada Rugby Union is itself a fringe sport.

No it's not and you know it's not........

9 hours ago, TheReaper said:

Read this and come back and try to claim..............

No, you two read this....

"Rugby Union is played across Canada, with clubs even in places like Yukon It is most popular in Vancouver and Newfoundland where rugby is considered to be the most popular summer sport.Rugby in British Columbia has had a strong international flavour, and representative BC sides have made tours to Japan and England. Up just after the Second World War, rugby union was very popular on the west coast, and the east coast respectively. Rugby Union has managed to maintain a presence in all parts of Canada.

Rugby union in Canada has been experiencing a growing popularity. 20,396 fans came out to BMO Field in Toronto in 2013 to watch Canada take on Ireland, a new attendance record for Canada. Rugby Union in Canada dates back to the 1860s. Introduction of the game and its early growth is usually credited to settlers from Britain and the British army and navy.

Canada first broke through into the top rank of rugby nations when it beat Scotland in 1991, followed by an outstanding performance in the 1991 RU world cup in which they beat Romania and Fiji before narrowly losing 19-13 to France in the pool stage then New Zealand in the quarter final.  In 1992, they compounded their success by beating Wales.

The Canadian national team have competed in every world cup since the first tournament held in 1987".

4 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

On this one John , I'd be agreeing with Parky , yes Toronto as I said earlier would have brought some ' novelty ' value in its 1st couple of seasons , I doubt that will continue after its 1st SL season. 

You need to remember what McManus said about TWP. "“A team of English and Antipodeans owned by an Australian in Canada”.This will as you indicate, become painfully apparent if TWP go up and that will be honeymoon over. 

But when you talk about teams in Canada (plural) you must remember no rich Canadians in three years have come out in person and said how they too would like to follow the TWP business model of throwing away $Millions on a sport Canada don't play, especially when there's a deep history and significant success in their Rugby Union game.

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2 hours ago, The Parksider said:

No it's not and you know it's not........

Yes it is, they and I know that full well too.  RU in Canada is way down the pecking order, the average Canadian who follows sports knows nothing about it beyond it being vaguely like gridiron but without pads.

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2 hours ago, The Parksider said:

No it's not and you know it's not........

No, you two read this....

"Rugby Union is played across Canada, with clubs even in places like Yukon It is most popular in Vancouver and Newfoundland where rugby is considered to be the most popular summer sport.Rugby in British Columbia has had a strong international flavour, and representative BC sides have made tours to Japan and England. Up just after the Second World War, rugby union was very popular on the west coast, and the east coast respectively. Rugby Union has managed to maintain a presence in all parts of Canada.

Rugby union in Canada has been experiencing a growing popularity. 20,396 fans came out to BMO Field in Toronto in 2013 to watch Canada take on Ireland, a new attendance record for Canada. Rugby Union in Canada dates back to the 1860s. Introduction of the game and its early growth is usually credited to settlers from Britain and the British army and navy.

Canada first broke through into the top rank of rugby nations when it beat Scotland in 1991, followed by an outstanding performance in the 1991 RU world cup in which they beat Romania and Fiji before narrowly losing 19-13 to France in the pool stage then New Zealand in the quarter final.  In 1992, they compounded their success by beating Wales.

The Canadian national team have competed in every world cup since the first tournament held in 1987".

You need to remember what McManus said about TWP. "“A team of English and Antipodeans owned by an Australian in Canada”.This will as you indicate, become painfully apparent if TWP go up and that will be honeymoon over. 

But when you talk about teams in Canada (plural) you must remember no rich Canadians in three years have come out in person and said how they too would like to follow the TWP business model of throwing away $Millions on a sport Canada don't play, especially when there's a deep history and significant success in their Rugby Union game.

Oh dear Lord you really are a tiresome prat aren't you?  why can't you grasp the fact that RL and indeed all sport is, at its very essence,, entertainment not religion and if people want to watch it they don't really care if the players are British, Canadian, or even Klingons.

Get a life and let people be....silly obsessed little man!

 

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7 hours ago, The Parksider said:

No it's not and you know it's not........

No, you two read this....

You need to remember what McManus said about TWP. "“A team of English and Antipodeans owned by an Australian in Canada”.This will as you indicate, become painfully apparent if TWP go up and that will be honeymoon over. 

But when you talk about teams in Canada (plural) you must remember no rich Canadians in three years have come out in person and said how they too would like to follow the TWP business model of throwing away $Millions on a sport Canada don't play, especially when there's a deep history and significant success in their Rugby Union game.

I don't disagree with your point or indeed McManus's statement , both are true  , however as I posted on the ' Loop fixtures ' thread , the best way to get rid of them would be to have more clubs able to function in SL without facing financial crisis every couple of years , and currently there is only one club IMO outside SL that could achieve that , bottom line is just as we don't have rich Canadians queuing up to throw away their hard earned on RL , we don't have any UK millionaires wishing to do the same here 

Yes we have a conundrum , we can't really let in more than 2 NA teams from a player pool position , but just 2 won't provide the level of income we want to see to grow the game 

So we either do something and see how it develops ? , Or we do nothing and see how that develops , and this is me saying this despite knowing full well if we did do something it could adversely affect the club I support and the support I give to that club and the game in general 

Yes it would be great if we saw a plethora of millionaires buying current UK RL clubs and pouring in the money to build and buy our way to something approaching the level of profile we believe the sport deserves , is that going to happen IYO ?

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28 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

So it's still acceptable to abuse and belittle Parksider. No need for it. 

Copy and pasting (alright with a bit of editing out) a Wikipedia article that is based on an opinion, ie. the popularity of a sport, to try tell people who are actually from that country how things are there is showing the highest level of contempt and something I'd expect YK to use against Australians on the Cross code forum for example. 

There's plenty of reasons modern RL in Canada could face trouble. RU being hugely popular and well run is nowhere near the top of the list and if you read the articles, watch the youtube videos etc you'd see why Rugby Canada is in a state worse than the RFL organisationally. 

The long winded vendetta against TWP has been going on for over 4 years now. Most of us are bored of reading what McManus or Leneghan (that was the big quote we saw endlessly repeated for a while) said, to the point where actually I doubt they've even said half the stuff or said it in the anti-Toronto guise Parksider would portray. 

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3 hours ago, Smudger06 said:

So it's still acceptable to abuse and belittle Parksider. No need for it. 

No there certainly isn't , rarely is he wrong with the points he makes , but some won't accept that , similarly though he struggles to accept that we might just have an opportunity here , it certainly won't be easy to exploit it , there are many issues with it , but just because something is difficult doesn't mean you shouldn't do it 

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9 hours ago, RobertAM said:

Oh dear Lord you really are a tiresome prat aren't you?  why can't you grasp the fact that RL and indeed all sport is, at its very essence,, entertainment not religion and if people want to watch it they don't really care if the players are British, Canadian, or even Klingons.

Get a life and let people be....silly obsessed little man!

 

We might not care where they are from , but if RL is being played professionally in Britain,Canada and Klingon , we will eventually need players from all 3 places to fill the teams 

Bottom line is top quality RL players are fairly rare , and becoming rarer according to those in the positions of supposed knowledge , so we have to be careful we don't kill the goose that gives us the gold 

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3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Copy and pasting (alright with a bit of editing out) a Wikipedia article that is based on an opinion, ie. the popularity of a sport, to try tell people who are actually from that country how things are there is showing the highest level of contempt and something I'd expect YK to use against Australians on the Cross code forum for example. 

There's plenty of reasons modern RL in Canada could face trouble. RU being hugely popular and well run is nowhere near the top of the list and if you read the articles, watch the youtube videos etc you'd see why Rugby Canada is in a state worse than the RFL organisationally. 

The long winded vendetta against TWP has been going on for over 4 years now. Most of us are bored of reading what McManus or Leneghan (that was the big quote we saw endlessly repeated for a while) said, to the point where actually I doubt they've even said half the stuff or said it in the anti-Toronto guise Parksider would portray. 

That's all fine but certainly does not excuse personal insults and bullying basically when it comes down to it.

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20 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

We might not care where they are from , but if RL is being played professionally in Britain,Canada and Klingon , we will eventually need players from all 3 places to fill the teams 

Bottom line is top quality RL players are fairly rare , and becoming rarer according to those in the positions of supposed knowledge , so we have to be careful we don't kill the goose that gives us the gold 

In that case the game needs a way to raise its profile so that more youngsters will want to watch and play it, across a wider geographic area too.  For that it needs the likes of Toronto and New York to succeed.

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OK my apologies to Parky..I shouldn't have used the language I did.

In my defense I had just returned from an evening of full-on positivity with travelling YCK fans, a few hours that really demonstrated what the Wolfpack experiment was all about..fans and friends from both sides of the Atlantic getting together over food and drink and generally having a splendid time.  Isn't that worth giving North American expansion a shot? I'd think it is.

Contrast that with the niggling negativity and you can see why people get exasperated with the doom and gloom merchants.

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3 hours ago, Big Picture said:

In that case the game needs a way to raise its profile so that more youngsters will want to watch and play it, across a wider geographic area too.  For that it needs the likes of Toronto and New York to succeed.

Thats certainly my hope for RL. Its a sad but true reality that many kids simply don't aspire to play for enough of our pro teams, both due to the reality of their own low profile and that of the game as a whole.

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3 minutes ago, Raumati Rugby said:

I consider myself a pragmatic bloke. I'll give everyone a fair hearing and consider all the facts and figures (nerd). 

In the case of Toronto, the HUGE + is that they cost us nothing at the moment, so carry on......my concerns are what happens when they realise that SL and the income from that still doesn't cover the costs, they become resented because they cost UK teams more money and they don't even look like producing either  TV deal or a Canadian Pro player......to me they are very much like Celtic Crusaders, just 5 hours away.

So what do we do ?

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3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So what do we do ?

What we should have done is ride them for every single ounce of publicity we could have got out them for the past 3 season's, another opportunity missed?

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9 minutes ago, Raumati Rugby said:

Let them run their course. They are a distraction from the bigger issues we face as a sport and as an industry, but they need to be given the chance to fail. I for one will applaud them whatever the outcome, because they have shown what a bit of bluster can do.......I genuinely dont see them making a profit ever, nor do I see them as the first step to a new era or region, but hey, it's his dime, let him spend it as he sees fit!

That's pretty much how I see it Barney 

You moved out to Paraparam now ? , Remember the 1st time we drove out there and had the hang gliders launching themselves over the top of us 

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20 hours ago, Smudger06 said:

That's all fine but certainly does not excuse personal insults and bullying basically when it comes down to it.

Thanks for your gentlemanly support Smudger,  but I see no bullying, just cowardice, as it is so easy to be the tough guy under an anonymous name from a bedroom keyboard many miles away.  Do these guys have wives? or Kids? What's up with them? Where is their integrity?

19 hours ago, Big Picture said:

In that case the game needs a way to raise its profile so that more youngsters will want to watch and play it, across a wider geographic area too.  For that it needs the likes of Toronto and New York to succeed.

By all means you and your mates and your NA clubs stay as long as you want as part of the British game and I will support the idea of one day RL taking off in North America, I don't see it for one second for the reasons I set out that are actually fair points, based on facts and research, not emotion. However the Championship and the RFL accepted North America and continue to do so, so stay IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP with my blessing, which you have always had, as long as it takes for North America to realise RL is the ultimate sport and embrace it.

But I guess you, like others, do not give a stuff for this approach, you just want TWP to go straight to Superleague, because that is your personal self centred choice, and to damnation anyone else.

18 hours ago, RobertAM said:

OK my apologies to Parky..I shouldn't have used the language I did.

In my defence.........

Contrast that with the niggling negativity and you can see why people get exasperated with the doom and gloom merchants.

You have no defence, as your supposed to be a grown up, yet you post an indirect apology. childishly excusing your disgusting behaviour.

Weasel words my friend...

Like most you fail to engage your brain, decide what you personally want to happen and chuck the insults at those who have a right to disagree, when pulled you provide the most insincere apology going........... 

Apology still accepted as pea-poor as it was.?

20 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

We might not care where they are from , but if RL is being played professionally in Britain,Canada and Klingon , we will eventually need players from all 3 places to fill the teams Bottom line is top quality RL players are fairly rare , and becoming rarer according to those in the positions of supposed knowledge , so we have to be careful we don't kill the goose that gives us the gold 

You have always "got it" and you could not be more right as above.

We started this conversation three years ago when I recognised what Perez was talking was nonsense. I was right. No TV deal appeared and no players appeared and there is no sign of either now or in ten years time or ever, with no keyboard warrior on here man enough to admit this. But such is the anonymous medium of the internet that no real discussion ever came out of that, just hundreds of posts declaring Parky is an idiot who should be put on ignore whilst "us lads" celebrate a new dawn for Rugby League here thanks to the innovation, foresight, genius, money etc of a couple of chancers.....

My concern was the fact that here in the British game we are on a knife edge, struggling for quality players (I was at Headingley last night and saw little quality beyond a couple of Leeds Antipodean players) and are facing a reduced SKY contract and a need to cut to 10 clubs in Superleague as Lenegan set out last January.......

So it's fair (in my book anyway) to suggest that as the English game is at such a knife edge, facing.......no real choice at best and oblivion at worst.....that we can't just relegate the Broncos for TWP this year and Relegate Hull.K.R for Ottawa next year.....and relegate Huddersfield for New York the year after that........and in the process send the 60 extra players required from here to North America to fill the Ottawa and NY rosters?

The fact is every M62 town that loses it's place to a North American so called "club" will resent this deeply, so much so that decline will set in across the fragile M62, not just because of demotion, but a sense of Superleague selling out to America. Where the dreamer Perez wanted to take this to get to that "North American TV contract", was the likes London, Salford, Wakefield, Huddersfield and HKR all relegated for Boston, NY. TWP,  Ottowa and whoever, such, that an NATV deal in the many $Millions would appear.

But can anyone seriously believe that such riches will be forthcoming from NATV for a league half comprising of 'small towns in England nobody in NA has ever heard of" Playing a form of rugby alien to a north America that plays exclusively to Rugby Union Rules?

It's just not the real word is it Gentlemen? Cue more "Parky is an idiot put him on ignore"...............

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All this opinion conveyed as fact is a bore to read. The fact is Wolfpack don’t need Canadian players, but it would be nice. 

I’m sure you’ve all read how there is youth development in Toronto and Canada now. Will they produce SL players? Who knows. 

You lot don’t actually know. You have an opinion and that is fine. But stop condemning others for having an opinion - whichever side you sit!

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34 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Thanks for your gentlemanly support Smudger,  but I see no bullying, just cowardice, as it is so easy to be the tough guy under an anonymous name from a bedroom keyboard many miles away.  Do these guys have wives? or Kids? What's up with them? Where is their integrity?

By all means you and your mates and your NA clubs stay as long as you want as part of the British game and I will support the idea of one day RL taking off in North America, I don't see it for one second for the reasons I set out that are actually fair points, based on facts and research, not emotion. However the Championship and the RFL accepted North America and continue to do so, so stay IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP with my blessing, which you have always had, as long as it takes for North America to realise RL is the ultimate sport and embrace it.

But I guess you, like others, do not give a stuff for this approach, you just want TWP to go straight to Superleague, because that is your personal self centred choice, and to damnation anyone else.

You have no defence, as your supposed to be a grown up, yet you post an indirect apology. childishly excusing your disgusting behaviour.

Weasel words my friend...

Like most you fail to engage your brain, decide what you personally want to happen and chuck the insults at those who have a right to disagree, when pulled you provide the most insincere apology going........... 

Apology still accepted as pea-poor as it was.?

You have always "got it" and you could not be more right as above.

We started this conversation three years ago when I recognised what Perez was talking was nonsense. I was right. No TV deal appeared and no players appeared and there is no sign of either now or in ten years time or ever, with no keyboard warrior on here man enough to admit this. But such is the anonymous medium of the internet that no real discussion ever came out of that, just hundreds of posts declaring Parky is an idiot who should be put on ignore whilst "us lads" celebrate a new dawn for Rugby League here thanks to the innovation, foresight, genius, money etc of a couple of chancers.....

My concern was the fact that here in the British game we are on a knife edge, struggling for quality players (I was at Headingley last night and saw little quality beyond a couple of Leeds Antipodean players) and are facing a reduced SKY contract and a need to cut to 10 clubs in Superleague as Lenegan set out last January.......

So it's fair (in my book anyway) to suggest that as the English game is at such a knife edge, facing.......no real choice at best and oblivion at worst.....that we can't just relegate the Broncos for TWP this year and Relegate Hull.K.R for Ottawa next year.....and relegate Huddersfield for New York the year after that........and in the process send the 80 players involved to North America to fill the Ottawa and NY rosters?

The fact is every M62 town that loses it's place to a North American so called "club" will resent this deeply, so much so that decline will set in across the fragile M62, not just because of demotion, but a sense of Superleague selling out to America. Where the dreamer Perez wanted to take this to get to that "North American TV contract", was the likes London, Salford, Wakefield, Huddersfield and HKR all relegated for Boston, NY. TWP,  Ottowa and whoever, such, that an NATV deal in the $Millions would appear.

But can anyone seriously believe that such riches will be forthcoming from NATV for a league half comprising of 'small towns in England nobody in NA has ever heard of" Playing a form of rugby alien to a north America that plays exclusively to Rugby Union Rules?

It's just not the real word is it Gentlemen? Cue more "Parky is an idiot put him on ignore"...............

Hey Parky...its been a while.   You are entitled to your opinion but I think that when you constantly recycle your old arguments it gets to people.  For example, Perez has not been with the Wolfpack for a long time...things change especially with a new fast growing club...you know this.  Please try to deal with the reality of now rather than simply repeating debatable arguments from the distant past which have pretty conclusively  been disproven.

And why constantly misspell Ottawa just to get a reaction?

Over the years you have changed/modified your position somewhat but I think everyone knows you are anti Wolfpack and anti NA expansion so to pretend you sort of are not is certainly disingenuous. 

We are here...we are making a good GO of it...we will get it done.  That is the reality..the game is changing and for the better: change and movements are a constant in this world.

Now you and your ilk might think otherwise and that is fine but as time marches on your position becomes weaker and weaker.  I respect your opinion but it is time to get some new material old nemesis.

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If a reserve grade team is compulsory for the Super League, how come there's no mention of Toronto in the 15 just named?

Surely they could run a reserve grade team in the UK? 

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