Can Ralph Rimmer get Ottawa to the starting gate?

[Kayakman]

4 hours ago, TIWIT said:

You're right, it's gone. Not moved, removed. Very strange. Wonder why?

Because it was all a load of bull...Noble is still on the team, the new fella Argyle brought in is a cracker and everything is just hunky dory in the New World...WOW!...did the claws of the Naysayers ever come out on this one...pitiful...just pitiful.

I think they got declawed.

[CanadianRugger]

2 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Because it was all a load of bull...Noble is still on the team, the new fella Argyle brought in is a cracker and everything is just hunky dory in the New World...WOW!...did the claws of the Naysayers ever come out on this one...pitiful...just pitiful.

I think they got declawed.

It probably got deleted after a certain user accused the forum of being run by "Fascists" for them daring to question his assertions that TWP were dead in the water and that the dream of Rugby League in NA was dying.

As for the management shakeup at TWP, as I posted elsewhere:

6 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

I think what we are seeing now is Argyle separating the business aspects of the club from the Rugby guys.  That's why Martin Vickers is heading up the UK Company and why Bob Hunter and John Pellatt have been brought in on the NA side of the house.  Brian Noble is a great rugby mind but he isn't a businessman.  He got the Rugby team up and running but now they have brought in actual business people to run the financial/infrastructure side of the club and let people like Brian Noble and Brian McDermott focus on what they are good at:

Running a Rugby team.

[Kayakman]

15 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

It probably got deleted after a certain user accused the forum of being run by "Fascists" for them daring to question his assertions that TWP were dead in the water and that the dream of Rugby League in NA was dying.

As for the management shakeup at TWP, as I posted elsewhere:

Sounds about right....that Big V8 North American engine is just starting to rev....what are they going to do when we open her up on the highway?

[The Parksider]

15 hours ago, Oxford said:

 I put him on ignore because he says the same thing over and over again.

Well people ignore the same thing over and over again, anyway something new for you to ponder below.

10 hours ago, Moove said:

The point was simply that you made something up and presented it as fact, that is all. Just don't lie about things being in respected publications like League Express when they're clearly not

If you can't hold your manners and want to call me a liar here's the League Express article, if you don't believe it then contact League Express, but I have the cutting in front of me now......

Lenegan backs Toulouse

By Mike Rylance – League Express  21-5-2012

Wigan chairman Ian Lenegan has given his support to Toulouse’s bid for Superleague in 2015…Lenegan was invited to speak last week at a dinner attended by over 200 guests from the business and sporting world. Speaking in French Lenegan addressed members of the Table D’Ovale, an organisation funded by Chairman Carlos Zalduendo to promote the club to important figures in Toulouse, before emphasising the importance of Toulouse’s application to the (English) competition…

The Wigan Chairman explained…Four major clubs – Wigan, Leeds, St.Helens and Warrington had also met and backed Toulouse for entry to Superleague 2015. Lenegan said he was well aware of the economic potential of Toulouse and the mid-pyrenes region which he saw as an excellent opportunity for development. 

He explained Toulouses application would need to be backed by the development of French players playing at that level, a viable financial plan, a TV deal and a stadium which met the necessary standards.

Following a long ovation Lenegan was succeeded by Francois Briancon Deputy Mayor of Toulouse with responsibility for Sport in the city……..

________________________________________________________________________________

Later than planned In 2016 Toulouse duly returned to the British game and worked their way up to the top end of the Championship where they are now. Audois recently noted a move soon to Stade Ernest Wallon. In addition Toulouse qualify on the criteria of a reserves side with the Toulouse Olympic Broncos.

As said before Elstone has been dealing with the TV situation and is looking for a two club package deal providing a French home SL game every week and of course three French derby games with Les Catalans. It’s quite clear who the very top four Superleague bosses – Ian Lenegan, Eamon McManus, Simon Moran and Paul Caddick are backing to join Superleague next season, and that is Toulpuse Olympic who they have been backing since 2012.

Given the derogatory comments about Toronto Wolfpack from McManus the other week, Toronto being squeezed out of even qualifying for Superleague on the no reserves issue, and Ian Lenegan’s continued thumbs up for Toulouse again this week I cannot logically see any other situation than Toulouse for Superleague, given the overwhelming evidence for that scenario.

Add to that Danny Lockwoods assertion if TWP were to win the play off, Superleague would be “Ready with their excuses” to ignore them. It does not take a genius to conclude Toulouse are red hot favourites to get the thumbs up for  entry to Superleague by meeting all the criteria asked of them in 2012 by the top four clubs who have always favoured them for SL, and have nothing much to say about TWP.

You just need to look these things up......... Apology please if you are such a Gentleman?

[Moove]

On 14/08/2019 at 14:33, The Parksider said:

and only last monday in League Express lenegan confirmed he'd like to push for Toulouse as well

You said last Monday in the post I replied to. Unless we've all gone back in a time machine, last Monday wasn't when the 2012 article you've now changed to was published. Nice try though

[Kayakman]

53 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

You just need to look these things up......... Apology please if you are such a Gentleman?

Parky, Toulouse can go up; all they have to do is best Toronto at home.   But we are playing very good rugby right now.....so I think we will go up instead!

[ojx]

So currently there is no French TV deal (for next year). If Toulouse get promotion (and good luck to them), there is still no TV deal on the table.  There is no evidence that there is a French TV company willing to pay just because there are two French teams in SL, that is just wild speculation.

[TIWIT]

23 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Well people ignore the same thing over and over again, anyway something new for you to ponder below.

If you can't hold your manners and want to call me a liar here's the League Express article, if you don't believe it then contact League Express, but I have the cutting in front of me now......

Lenegan backs Toulouse

By Mike Rylance – League Express  21-5-2012

Wigan chairman Ian Lenegan has given his support to Toulouse’s bid for Superleague in 2015…Lenegan was invited to speak last week at a dinner attended by over 200 guests from the business and sporting world. Speaking in French Lenegan addressed members of the Table D’Ovale, an organisation funded by Chairman Carlos Zalduendo to promote the club to important figures in Toulouse, before emphasising the importance of Toulouse’s application to the (English) competition…

The Wigan Chairman explained…Four major clubs – Wigan, Leeds, St.Helens and Warrington had also met and backed Toulouse for entry to Superleague 2015. Lenegan said he was well aware of the economic potential of Toulouse and the mid-pyrenes region which he saw as an excellent opportunity for development. 

He explained Toulouses application would need to be backed by the development of French players playing at that level, a viable financial plan, a TV deal and a stadium which met the necessary standards.

Following a long ovation Lenegan was succeeded by Francois Briancon Deputy Mayor of Toulouse with responsibility for Sport in the city……..

________________________________________________________________________________

Later than planned In 2016 Toulouse duly returned to the British game and worked their way up to the top end of the Championship where they are now. Audois recently noted a move soon to Stade Ernest Wallon. In addition Toulouse qualify on the criteria of a reserves side with the Toulouse Olympic Broncos.

As said before Elstone has been dealing with the TV situation and is looking for a two club package deal providing a French home SL game every week and of course three French derby games with Les Catalans. It’s quite clear who the very top four Superleague bosses – Ian Lenegan, Eamon McManus, Simon Moran and Paul Caddick are backing to join Superleague next season, and that is Toulpuse Olympic who they have been backing since 2012.

Given the derogatory comments about Toronto Wolfpack from McManus the other week, Toronto being squeezed out of even qualifying for Superleague on the no reserves issue, and Ian Lenegan’s continued thumbs up for Toulouse again this week I cannot logically see any other situation than Toulouse for Superleague, given the overwhelming evidence for that scenario.

Add to that Danny Lockwoods assertion if TWP were to win the play off, Superleague would be “Ready with their excuses” to ignore them. It does not take a genius to conclude Toulouse are red hot favourites to get the thumbs up for  entry to Superleague by meeting all the criteria asked of them in 2012 by the top four clubs who have always favoured them for SL, and have nothing much to say about TWP.

You just need to look these things up......... Apology please if you are such a Gentleman?

Good grief man, your much touted claim from Lenegan is from over seven years ago! Ancient history as far as the game is concerned! A lot has changed since then, not the least of it being the existence of the Wolfpack and their successful expansion of the game into North America. Toulouse has had lots of chances to earn their way into Super League but their on-field performance hasn't earned them promotion and now SL suddenly desperately wants them?

If I didn't know better I'd think SL is afraid of David Argyle lest he drag them kicking and screaming into the 21st Century!

[Loup]

7 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

It probably got deleted after a certain user accused the forum of being run by "Fascists" for them daring to question his assertions that TWP were dead in the water and that the dream of Rugby League in NA was dying.

 

Yep. That certain person started a post over on the RLFans Forum to whine about the unfairness of life. Post seems to have come down already.

[TIWIT]

21 minutes ago, Loup said:

Yep. That certain person started a post over on the RLFans Forum to whine about the unfairness of life. Post seems to have come down already.

This must've been a pretty dull place before the Wolfpack came along.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

On 14/08/2019 at 14:33, The Parksider said:

MEMO TO WELLSY Yes I wholeheartedly welcomed them to the Championship. I qualified this in the sentence after. See above the bit in bold where I assist you accordingly with your grammatical error.

It's not my error, it's yours. At least bloody admit you meant to say something else. You can't edit what you said and expect people not to remember it. It's quoted in my text. It's there.

On your edit, how noble of you to welcome them to part of the system and not welcome them to the elite part. 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

5 hours ago, The Parksider said:

If you can't hold your manners and want to call me a liar here's the League Express article, if you don't believe it then contact League Express, but I have the cutting in front of me now......

Lenegan backs Toulouse

By Mike Rylance – League Express  21-5-2012

Wigan chairman Ian Lenegan has given his support to Toulouse’s bid for Superleague in 2015…

It's not 2012 or 2015. Your quote has completely expired on terms of its relevance.

In fact, it's so far out of date that we've had TWO changes of system in the time that quote came about. It's a quote about Toulouse getting a license when Lenegan thought the system in 2015 would stay the same.

I'm not saying his support has changed, but in 7 years a lot has happened. A LOT. It is ridiculous to think that club chairman y are working on bringing in a club based on a comment made TWO league systems ago 7 years ago when the landscape of the game has changed completely.

In fact it's so ridiculous it's laughable. I mean really? An article from 7 years ago is your evidence that it's happening today?

[Omott91]

2 hours ago, Loup said:

Yep. That certain person started a post over on the RLFans Forum to whine about the unfairness of life. Post seems to have come down already.

That certain person wouldn't happen to be the Kiwi bloke?

[fighting irish]

humperty dumperty …….

[The Parksider]

On 16/08/2019 at 06:13, Wellsy4HullFC said:

It's not 2012 or 2015. Your quote has completely expired on terms of its relevance.

In fact, it's so far out of date that we've had TWO changes of system in the time that quote came about. It's a quote about Toulouse getting a license when Lenegan thought the system in 2015 would stay the same.

I'm not saying his support has changed, but in 7 years a lot has happened. A LOT. It is ridiculous to think that club chairman y are working on bringing in a club based on a comment made TWO league systems ago 7 years ago when the landscape of the game has changed completely.

In fact it's so ridiculous it's laughable. I mean really? An article from 7 years ago is your evidence that it's happening today?

I've left your whole post intact because it's a complete nonsense. Building a club up to a high professional level is just that, no matter what the league system is. The League system does not find a club a decent ground...... the league system does not organise an "A" team .......the league system does not secure a TV deal........the league system does not build a junior game.........the league system does not get corporate backers on board.

The league system has absolutely nothing to do with building up a club.............

As for the timescales again what on earth are you trying to say? Doesn't it occur to you that a semi pro french club like TO needs some time to plan and "grow" to be a fully fledged professional Rugby League Club worthy of Superleague.

TWP in three years do not have a decent ground......they do not have a reserve team........they do not have a TV deal......there is no player development........they only have one backer.........In fact they themselves talk about needing 10-15 years to bring the player development thing about so they are struggling to grow although you won't see how wrong you are, others with an open mind will easily get this.

In 2012 the SL bosses planned to give it 3 years before letting TO in so they would be better prepared, as it was they actually came in after 4 years, and having got to the top of the Championship after three more years the Superleague bosses are now ready to let them in Superleague as they have built a club ready for Superleague.

Again how you manage to argue about the league system changing between 2012 and now has any relevance to TO being given the green light to working towards Superleage by McManus and Lenegan, and them doing just that I don't know? You tell me you are a teacher?? Really??  With respect to you drop the vendetta you have against me as it makes you look silly.

What on earth did you mean about "The Landscape changing"? In 2012 we have three leagues and P & R and today in 2019 we still have three leagues and P & R, Absolutely nothing has changed relevant to Toulouses's inclusion?.

In 2006 if SL wanted to add Catalans they had the power to do so and did it. They still have that power to now include Toulouse and not only that they indicate strongly now in 2019 they will do it - on what earthly basis do you think anyone can stop them doing this???

In your last line you say     "An article from 7 years ago is your evidence that it's happening today?"

No No No....... My evidence is both Legenan and McManus who backed TO in 2012, who said they would put them in the Leagues here in 2015 and actually did that 2016 and who looked to TO building towards inclusion in Superleague have BOTH OPENLY STATED IN ARTICLES IN RECENT WEEKS THEY ARE NOW READY TO DO THIS. What the article said they would do in 2012 they have gone on to actually announce they will now do?

The 2012 article was just the start of a long term plan featuring a series of articles on their progress down the years  to give TO the green light to build in the French comp, come over to the English comp, build through the Championships and then one they have French players (they have) and "A" Team (they have) a decent ground lined up (they have) and a collection of backers (they have) then they would be placed into Superleague - something both Legegan and McManus openly and publicly say they are likely to do for next year???.

I am not your librarian, I am not your researcher....You need to sit down and look up the story of Toulouse's march, from the evening of that dinner in 2012, to the top of the French game, to their inclusion here, to their rise to the top echelons of the Championship, and now to them being openly touted to be included alongside Les Catalans in Superleague by the same people who approved that journey in 2012 at the Dinner in Toulouse..........

 

[Mushy]

I’m not sure why we expect different outcomes from the same discussions.  People only believe what they want to believe.

But what the heck, I’ll restate my position too.

I am excited by the prospect of expansion and do want these new clubs to be a success. I don’t think it’ll be easy or indeed be guaranteed of success.

I struggle to see any other scenario other than growth that sees our game staying relevant given increasing social/geographic mobility and aggressive development of competing sports and pastimes. 

I’d be doing all I could to try and encourage growth and development both bottom up and top down at the same time to try and make a step change in our participation and commercial performance. If one had to come before the other, I would emphasise commercial growth first though, it’s a lot easy to pay for player pool growth if you actually have some money. 

[Omott91]

Apart from Catalans, twp are the most successful expansion Rugby league club in the Northern hemisphere.

Enough said.   

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

Apart from Catalans, twp are the most successful expansion Rugby league club in the Northern hemisphere.

Enough said.   

Define successful ?

[Omott91]

13 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Define successful ?

Attendance 

Sponsorship 

Fan engagement 

Media coverage 

On field success 

Stable finances

All in a new country in an advantageous geographical location.

 What's not to like?

 How would you define success? 

[Angelic Cynic]

3 hours ago, The Parksider said:

TWP in three years do not have a decent ground......they do not have a reserve team........they do not have a TV deal......there is no player development........they only have one backer.........In fact they themselves talk about needing 10-15 years to bring the player development thing about so they are struggling to grow although you won't see how wrong you are, others with an open mind will easily get this.

   Parky,This one backer bit may not be correct.

  When they were first announced it was stated that they had about a dozen backers - Mining magnates,or similar.

   I've dug out a link - 4 paragraphs below the image of Mr Perez - states 10 businessmen in a consortium.

  https://www.esquire.com/uk/culture/a16182/toronto-wolfpack/

   What is occurring with Ottawa,though?

  

[Wellsy4HullFC]

5 hours ago, The Parksider said:

I've left your whole post intact because it's a complete nonsense. Building a club up to a high professional level is just that, no matter what the league system is. The League system does not find a club a decent ground...... the league system does not organise an "A" team .......the league system does not secure a TV deal........the league system does not build a junior game.........the league system does not get corporate backers on board.

The league system has absolutely nothing to do with building up a club.............

It depends what the league system is. Under a licensing system, clubs win that system would obviously see the benefit of supporting an application into the league from a club they deem beneficial to the league as a whole.

Under the following systems, they cannot choose who comes into the league in this way.

The league system does influence whether a club bothers with an A team or a reserve team.

The league system is definitely influential in the TV deal.

Your opening argument is absolute nonsense.

 

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, Omott91 said:

Attendance 

Sponsorship 

Fan engagement 

Media coverage 

On field success 

Stable finances

All in a new country in an advantageous geographical location.

 What's not to like?

 How would you define success? 

Attendance ? , Without doubt , free tickets or not 

Sponsorship ? The flight contra ? , Ok 

Fan engagement ? That's just a fancy word for attendance 

Media coverage ? , due to location ? , Ok I'll give you that one , 

On field ? , See below 

Stable finances ? Yes a rich owner , but that isn't something you can say they worked at or owning , you either have on or you don't , 

Not necessarily an advantageous geographical location , probably been better if he'd have financed London or a French club 

Too early to categorically state a success IMO 

[CanadianRugger]

2 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

   Parky,This one backer bit may not be correct.

  When they were first announced it was stated that they had about a dozen backers - Mining magnates,or similar.

   I've dug out a link - 4 paragraphs below the image of Mr Perez - states 10 businessmen in a consortium.

  https://www.esquire.com/uk/culture/a16182/toronto-wolfpack/

   What is occurring with Ottawa,though?

  

Ottawa is also headed up by a similar business consortium that is backed by Ottawa Sports & Entertainment Group (OSEG).

They own:

Ottawa Redblacks (CFL)

Ottawa 67s Hockey Club:

And Ottawa Fury FC:

The consortium owns all three clubs and now supposedly owns the Hemel Stags license.  They also control a 25,000 seat stadium, 10,000 seat arena, dozens of restaurants, shopping complex, beer gardens, condominiums, etc.

[GUBRATS]

12 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

Ottawa is also headed up by a similar business consortium that is backed by Ottawa Sports & Entertainment Group (OSEG).

They own:

Ottawa Redblacks (CFL)

Ottawa 67s Hockey Club:

And Ottawa Fury FC:

The consortium owns all three clubs and now supposedly owns the Hemel Stags license.  They also control a 25,000 seat stadium, 10,000 seat arena, dozens of restaurants, shopping complex, beer gardens, condominiums, etc.

I wonder what colours they'll play in ?

[CanadianRugger]

35 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I wonder what colours they'll play in ?

Red, Black and White is the colour of all Ottawa Sports Clubs.  I think a nice Rugby League kit with those colours (something like the 67's wear) would look great.

The 67s have a great history btw, the club is over 50 years old and is one of the most successful junior hockey clubs in the country.  Junior Hockey is a bit of an anomaly in Canada.  It's the only sport that I can think of that has thousands of fans willing to pay to come watch 17-20 year olds play a sport.  Playing in the Canadian Hockey League has pretty much always been the best way for any youth from anywhere in the world to make the NHL.

I'm more interested to see what they name the Ottawa Rugby League Club?  Especially because Ottawa is a bilingual city with a substantial French population.  When they revamped the Ottawa CFL franchise, one of the reasons they chose the Red Blacks name was because it translates to French as Rouge et Noir which is very similar to a French University in Canada called University de Laval which has the top Canadian Football University club in the country.  There team name is the Red and Gold or Rouge et Or.