Can Ralph Rimmer get Ottawa to the starting gate?

[RobertAM]

Coming soon to a cinema near you “Don’t stop me if you’ve heard this before - The Parksider Story”. One man’s epic journey to shrink the footprint of Rugby League using only repetitive drivel and acerbic vitriol. Endorsed by Donald Trump “this man makes even less sense than I do and like me hates Toronto with a passion - they closed Trump Tower 2!” Critics expect this one to run on and on playing to rapidly dwindling audiences.

[fighting irish]

My dear Parksider let me begin by saying I am determined not to insult you. I have on a number of occasions complimented you on your ''love'' of the game and on the validity of the points you've raised regarding Toronto's involvement in our game. I am sure also that if we knew each other personally we could be friends. I agree with you wholeheartedly that we need to preserve the existing assets (British Rugby League) and allow changes only when we believe that there is a benefit for all concerned in the short, medium and long term.

You are quite plainly hurt by some of the derogatory comments made about you, by others here and that some of them have put you on ignore. You've made no secret of the fact that you despise those tactics on a forum created for open debate. This is further evidenced by the aggressive and indeed insulting tone you often take in your correspondence with others. I suppose you see your behaviour as retaliatory, therefore justified in the ''you started it'' school of fair play and lately, you even suggested that one of the contributors was trying to lure you into a trap, but your experience saved you from falling for that cheap trick!

In response to a recent comment from me you hinted that I was ''sitting on the fence'', hence my decision to write. 

I would rather engage in this debate without resorting to insults. I think it makes sense too, at the outset, to acknowledge that none of us is in possession of the full detail of any agreement set up between TWP and the ''powers that be''. So, in the main, we are all operating from the standpoint of ignorance. I've warned (just as you did that unbridled expansion could lead to disaster) that ''to do nothing'' may also lead to the demise of the game because we all accept that the conveyor belt of new talent is faltering and (you say) SKY are about to reduce their funding in the next round of negotiations.

I'm surprised you think, I'm on the fence given the sheer weight of comment I've made about the failure of the game to spread the footprint of the sport at home. In case you are still in any doubt I'll say clearly, I am an unashamed advocate of TWP and I believe that on balance they have been ''great'' for our game.

You have repeatedly stated that the only two criteria that matter (when we judge TWP) are NO PLAYERS, NO TV DEAL and if you believe that to be true, then your verdict that they are a failure follows logically. Ok.

I asked recently for comments about what's in David Argyles mind, because I don't know. What I was trying to discover was what might his broad brush business plan look like? No-one really fleshed out the picture for me so we are none the wiser.

If I were a billionaire, and wanted to set up TWP I might decide to set the following goals (in this order);

Find a competition to play in.

Create something to watch (a team) and adequately fund the operation. 

Make sure my team was worth watching (Get some good players and a good coach) without destroying the competition I've joined.

Demonstrate that the product has appeal to Canadian/American spectators (Build a home crowd)

Make sure my customers, have a good time, even when we lose.

Given that the existing comp has no tv deal, create my own coverage and distribute it to as many potential viewers as possible.

Monitor and keep the data on the number of people watching the games (''eyeballs'' I've created). 

Open negotiations with potential TV companies using the data gathered above, to take the footage (when we get to the Super League).

As the game develops some roots, in the local community and begins to attract business backers and has the promise of a TV deal making the entire enterprise self sustaining I would employ a development arm (even a whole department) to seed the game and grow it from the ground up.

 

TWP is not a static entity, its a dynamic, living organism with a life of its own. It is continually growing and will be different tomorrow than it is today, such is life. David Argyle's financial clout can ensure that the growth of the club need not be (Old Country) linear. If its done correctly, professionally, the growth could be exponential (explosive). That the TV deal is not yet in place, doesn't mean it won't be shortly. That we are not creating Canadian players, does not mean we may not very soon.

To quote Lawrence Peter (Yogi) Berra, ''Making predictions is difficult, especially about the future.''

I don't believe that the people running Super League are fools Parky, I think they want Toronto and all the potential gains that they may bring. I think that their definition of ''success'' might be more multi-faceted than your own and in the event that the TV contract, or a Canadian playing roster doesn't appear within the 5 year plan they may give him a little more time.

Time will tell.

I would rather Toronto succeed, than win this argument, so in the event that you are wrong, and I am right, could we still be mates? 

[Angelic Cynic]

7 hours ago, Moove said:

 

 I repeat, the original post above was about clarity and transparency of entrance criteria - nothing more, nothing less!

It was solely about the clarity and transparency of entrance criteria to SL.

  It is the RFL who approved the entry of Toronto Wolfpack - and have also agreed to entry for Ottawa;into League1

It was because of the possibility of Toronto Wolfpack not being allowed into Super League that brought about debate about a television deal/go it alone idea for The Championship.

  I think you'll have to get something from the Super League club owners/Robert Elstone what the criteria is for this year - and what,if any criteria there may be for the future.

   It's still early in the year  - Fixtures  due out in November should give us a bit of a clue.

Should Toronto be prevented from entering Super League for non-criteria,or wanting to play games in blocks,whatever,it will almost certainly prevent Ottawa wanting to be involved,especially with the future of League 1 in some doubt.                 

[Oxford]

Everyone who's read my posts knows how much I love RL but if TWP are denied entry to SL after qualifying by winning the competition I will stop watching the game that day. I thought I'd promise it here then they'll be two reasons to celebrate.

I only put Parky on ignore because he was being boring.

8 hours ago, John WP Fan said:

I too have tried to engage with you

And that's where you went wrong!

Mostly those huge and terrible insults have been a bit of GNB.

His reams of Colin Welland's automatic typewriter material with the same stuff over and over again couldn't create debate unless the alternatives were on the menu too.

There's an article in RL World where two quotes showed the effect of TWP one from someone in the York club and another from Swinton and I thought about taking them to Parky and I could hear the word "deluded" and others in my head before I'd got even one letter typed.

I will repeat one of the things I asked him as the and I mean THE champion of P&R why he felt it was okay for TWP to be denied access to SL if they won the right to do so fairly and squarely. I got no answer and it wasn't the first time.

For those of you that haven't seen that article it's a gem. And I'm sure John Drake won't be too upset if I write there's quite a few in the latest edition. Why? Because after the piles of the negativity it's a blast not a breath of fresh air that we need.

[fighting irish]

Yes Angelic Cynic, we have the power to kill Ottawa and New York at a stroke and ultimately Toronto. Great init.

[fighting irish]

3 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Everyone who's read my posts knows how much I love RL but if TWP are denied entry to SL after qualifying by winning the competition I will stop watching the game that day. 

me too. 

[Omott91]

4 hours ago, fighting irish said:

me too. 

Me three regarding any interest in the English competition. 

[Kayakman]

9 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

Me three regarding any interest in the English competition. 

NOT ME!!!  If Toronto are denied proper entry alternative measures will need to be taken..and will be taken.

Not a good idea and I don't think it will ever come to this..if push comes to shove, the Wolfpack has lots of push and plenty of shove.

[Big Picture]

44 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

NOT ME!!!  If Toronto are denied proper entry alternative measures will need to be taken..and will be taken.

Not a good idea and I don't think it will ever come to this..if push comes to shove, the Wolfpack has lots of push and plenty of shove.

What alternative measures do you have in  mind?

[The Parksider]

16 hours ago, RobertAM said:

The Parksider Story. One man’s epic journey to shrink the footprint of Rugby League using only repetitive drivel and acerbic vitriol. This man  hates Toronto with a passion.

I have legitimate concerns about Toronto shared by very many people, and it's fair enough to air them. I noted in League Weekly yesterday Danny Lockwood declared the future as being a "World Vision" and he predicted that the SL bosses would  find reasons to reject TWP if they won promotion, and simply protect their own ever shrinking competition in which they play each other five times.

That's a view I've heard hundreds of times, but even the Editor of a major RL newspaper was unable to set out how his "World Vision" would actually work. Right from the start someone suggested I just wanted to keep RL for the M62 and a part of me did, but I conceded that if North America offered  growth and expansion I had to just suck it up.

But the thing is Robert so far the American dream hasn't offered anything substantial at all and it's progression appears to be a very slow substitution of North American clubs taking 30 players from here every other year and replacing English clubs one by one. But this way the point comes when more and more English RL people get fed up with this and SKY pull the plug as they need English content?

Discuss with me Robert how you think it will actually work. Enlighten me my friend??. 

12 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I agree with you wholeheartedly that we need to preserve the existing assets (British Rugby League) and allow changes only when we believe that there is a benefit for all concerned in the short, medium and long term.

You have stated that the only two criteria that matter  are NO PLAYERS, NO TV DEAL 

That the TV deal is not yet in place, doesn't mean it won't be shortly. That we are not creating Canadian players, does not mean we may not very soon.

I never stated that, it was TWP's business plan on which they were admitted to the RFL - Perez stated it. As for Canadian players "soon" even on here the general concensus is well over a decade if they ever start any development. As for TV deals again Perez stated he needed 5-6 NA clubs in SL to achieve that, That would take well over a decade BUT SL can't let anymore than three overseas clubs in or SKY will pull the plug. If you want a conversation stick to the facts please, and actually deal with them.

12 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

 Should Toronto be prevented from entering Super League for non-criteria,or wanting to play games in blocks,whatever,it will almost certainly prevent Ottawa wanting to be involved,especially with the future of League 1 in some doubt.                 

I disagree. I do not see Ottawa as following on from TWP in some sort of joined up plan. For me Argyle just wanted to buy an English team and run it in Superleague because he had loads of money. For me Perez didn't like this and left vowing to develop players at Ottawa "As long as it takes" and fair play to him, credit where it is due.

5 hours ago, SL17 said:

Their goal would be to evolve. Perez stating things would be done differently to Toronto. A different path. Lets not start assuming SL is the answer.

All the trolling I get tries to say I do not like the idea of American expansion. Totally untrue. I hate the idea of phoney North American teams replacing proper English clubs in Superleague. As it stands Argyle has this plan to just put 30 of the best RL players from here he can buy in a Canadian Jersey and pretend that's expansion. 

As per my first comments I'd like such as Danny Lockwood to tell me how this is in any way a plan or expansion.

At times on here when the silly dreams and insults are not clouding the issue I have repeatedly suggested that the Championship is the perfect place to develop an NA club into something substantial, something beyond a rich mans plaything to be created and dropped on a whim. The Championship have already said they would welcome TWP, Ottawa and New York in it and there gentlemen we have the solution. As I said two years ago, NA should grow their clubs and grow their game in the Championship. In a short time we could see TWP, Ottawa and NY all playing each other, and seeking to grow the game enough to indeed look at a Transatlantic League.

But all the threads I have done on growing America in the Championship had people's approval but not their enthusiasm, because the fact seems to be whether it's Argyle or wether it's 20 TWP fans on here, they (with respect) want Superleague NOW and don't really care about grass roots development or the preservation of the game here. That's the reality.........

Time will tell. If TWP were rejected would Argyle stick about or flounce off declaring Superleague are parochial and "don't want expansion" like Mr. Lockwood appears to think??  

[fighting irish]

5 hours ago, Raumati Rugby said:

What a very odd post.

As far as I can see, Toronto had an agreement with the RFL. Since that agreement was signed, the RFL lost power and influence over the top tier.
If the SL chairmen elect to not allow Toronto to play with their ball, there is little recourse for Toronto against SL as they have no current agreement and neither the RFL, because Toronto asked to join and play with the RFL's ball.

It's sort of like being invited to party and then being un-invited...not very nice, but there's not a lot else you can do about it

Do you really believe that the super league clubs can renege on a contract with Toronto which they were a part of by simply forming their own club? I think the parasitical lawyers would have a field day with this in court and could tie the poor little super league up in very costly litigation for years. Not to mention the cost of losing the case. Toronto have a very strong position in any negotiation on these issues. Don't underestimate their hand.

[fighting irish]

47 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

 If you want a conversation stick to the facts please, and actually deal with them.

 

If we stuck to the facts we wouldn't have a lot to talk about.  In the absence of information about the future, we can only suppose, or say nothing. Imagining how the future might unfold is part of the fun of it. Surely you don't want to disallow supposition? I've never been comfortable putting words in people's mouths but surely you meant "refrain from claiming your opinions are facts"? Of that charge, Parksider I am utterly innocent. It's a great shame, the same can't be said for everyone here, don't you agree?

[Kayakman]

8 hours ago, Big Picture said:

What alternative measures do you have in  mind?

You know them as well as I!

 

8 hours ago, Raumati Rugby said:

What a very odd post.

As far as I can see, Toronto had an agreement with the RFL. Since that agreement was signed, the RFL lost power and influence over the top tier.
If the SL chairmen elect to not allow Toronto to play with their ball, there is little recourse for Toronto against SL as they have no current agreement and neither the RFL, because Toronto asked to join and play with the RFL's ball.

It's sort of like being invited to party and then being un-invited...not very nice, but there's not a lot else you can do about it

You clearly have no idea how the world really works in decisions like these....Argyle is way ahead of the curve on this and in front of the problem....Toronto will be let in if they win the Championship....FULL STOP!

[fighting irish]

1 hour ago, Kayakman said:

You know them as well as I!

 

You clearly have no idea how the world really works in decisions like these....Argyle is way ahead of the curve on this and in front of the problem....Toronto will be let in if they win the Championship....FULL STOP!

Steady on, steady on. 

[Angelic Cynic]

7 hours ago, The Parksider said:

I disagree. I do not see Ottawa as following on from TWP in some sort of joined up plan. For me Argyle just wanted to buy an English team and run it in Superleague because he had loads of money. For me Perez didn't like this and left vowing to develop players at Ottawa "As long as it takes" and fair play to him, credit where it is due.

   Since Mr Perez was given the go-ahead,it seems he has been a bit too late to commence in League 1 for 2020.

   If he wants/ed to develop players in Ottawa,then a man who has very recently done a great deal when it comes to publicity,has gone very quiet.

     No head coach for the League 1 side has been named,nor any development officers/coaches named,or relocated.Nothing has started.

   I think,perhaps,all eyes or on Toronto.Then something may start.

    Perhaps the RFL should be in the ear of the Super League club owners,and Mr Elstone.

[Jayme2020]

While some on here might want the league to block Toronto i don't think for one minute this is a serious debate the league or even teams are having.

[The Parksider]

On 05/08/2019 at 12:00, John WP Fan said:

I too have tried to engage with you, conceding that some of your points are valid, looking to understand the wider landscape, and sharing other ways that sport can grow. Like others, my attempts to really engage in a wider debate have been ignored, and you returned to the only two points you are willing to consider.The repetition of those two lines (just about every day, at length, exactly the same argument) gets very tiresome.  

You know full well those "two points" were the reason for supporting the American dream and they were Perez's points he made to justify that dream in terms of exactly what he offered and  meant by expansion. 1. More Pro players 2. More TV money. There I have said it again and I estimate I have now said it 1,000 times exactly. 

I also estimate about 20 posters on here are strongly in favour of the American dream continuing despite Perez and Argyle failing to deliver one NA player (notwithstanding they sacked a few) nor one TV dollar. I logically don't see either for years to come if ever because there is no player development system in NA, and big NATV companies want a big NA content they will not get - so why should they part with $$Millions?.

Now I have asked the 20 of you 1,000 times to admit these two pillars of expansion have not been achieved and probably never will and the 20 of you refuse to admit it by ignoring the question. OK it's tiresome asking something 1,000 times, but you guys are far more tiresome ignoring the fact it's all a failure 20,000 times.  It's some sort of mass denial?? So go on John...admit it TWP did not achieve their stated goals?? 

2 hours ago, Jayme2020 said:

While some on here might want the league to block Toronto i don't think for one minute this is a serious debate.....

Everyone's entitled to an opinion your good self included. However SL bosses have through Eamon McManus publicly said they will likely block Toronto for Toulouse. In the RL press Danny Lockwood editor of League weekly also stated SL bosses are working on their "excuses" now, to block TWP from Superleague. I think these are the sort of people you should take seriously?

8 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

   Since Mr Perez was given the go-ahead,it seems he has been a bit too late to commence in League 1 for 2020.   If he wants/ed to develop players in Ottawa,then a man who has very recently done a great deal when it comes to publicity,has gone very quiet. Nothing has started. I think all eyes are or on Toronto.

I  concede your point entirely, I just felt that maybe I could find a way to be a little more praiseworthy of Perez who after all is a Rugby league fanatic and really does devote himself to the game (albeit his ambitions are not conducive to harmony between NA & Europe) .

If the decision on TWP is "YES" then of course the Transatlantic league is on and we can look forward to more squads of English players being sent to America (well Manchester) and English pro-clubs here going semi-pro to make way. If the decision is "NO" then I fear not an end to the American dream as such as it never started, but several more years of recriminations against the Superleague bosses who will be blamed for killing what is supposedly a fantastic opportunity for RL to break out of the M62 and follow a "world vision" according to Danny Lockwood Editor of League weekly. 

I love this game and would concede the demise of the M62 if it meant the rise of RL across countries and continents in the northern Hemisphere, but whether it is internet trolls who call me an idiot and urge others to put me on ignore, or a well travelled business minded Rugby League playing nut like Mr. Lockwood who condemns those who see no point in TWP...........

None of them want to allay my fears by actually explaining how going Transatlantic will actually work if there's nothing of substance on offer in North America? Please someone, help me understand this?

 

[Jayme2020]

The Parksider

The risk the RFL may have is if they block Toronto many think North American League will pull put of Europe as many hold games in Europe.

 

[fighting irish]

5 hours ago, Raumati Rugby said:

If you think Argyle would take SL to court then you're obviously naive. Say he wins and they are made to accept him, the following year they change the structure, put it to a 12 chairmen vote and he's gone, 11-1. Then there's the claim of the strength of their hand. As Parksider has repeated once or twice, there's no TV revenue and no development on the horizon either....2 key ingredients to them being INVITED.

Don't underestimate the SL chairmen....Toronto will be invited to the top table if there's something in it for the other 11 sides.

I don't think they will go to court, but I don't think Argyles hand is weak either.

We don't know the detail of any agreement made. 

The threat of legal action is like a nuclear deterent, once you use it, it ***** everything up.

But if they renege on agreements made prior to the breakaway, the split won't protect them and if Argyle decides to walk away, he may have a breach of contract case, which could lead to considerable costs and compensation claims.

I'm sure the Super League would be reluctant to fight it. 

[TIWIT]

22 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I don't think they will go to court, but I don't think Argyles hand is weak either.

We don't know the detail of any agreement made. 

The threat of legal action is like a nuclear deterent, once you use it, it ***** everything up.

But if they renege on agreements made prior to the breakaway, the split won't protect them and if Argyle decides to walk away, he may have a breach of contract case, which could lead to considerable costs and compensation claims.

I'm sure the Super League would be reluctant to fight it. 

Billionaires don't like losing.

[Tommygilf]

Go onto the International Forum. There are a few threads on development around the world including Canada, both in and around Ontario but also British Colombia out West. It'll brighten your day and show everyone that baby steps are being taken.

[John WP Fan]

 

11 hours ago, The Parksider said:

On 05/08/2019 at 07:00, John WP Fan said:

I too have tried to engage with you, conceding that some of your points are valid, looking to understand the wider landscape, and sharing other ways that sport can grow. Like others, my attempts to really engage in a wider debate have been ignored, and you returned to the only two points you are willing to consider.The repetition of those two lines (just about every day, at length, exactly the same argument) gets very tiresome.  

You know full well those "two points" were the reason for supporting the American dream and they were Perez's points he made to justify that dream in terms of exactly what he offered and  meant by expansion. 1. More Pro players 2. More TV money. There I have said it again and I estimate I have now said it 1,000 times exactly. 

...

Now I have asked the 20 of you 1,000 times to admit these two pillars of expansion have not been achieved and probably never will and the 20 of you refuse to admit it by ignoring the question. OK it's tiresome asking something 1,000 times, but you guys are far more tiresome ignoring the fact it's all a failure 20,000 times.  It's some sort of mass denial?? So go on John...admit it TWP did not achieve their stated goals?? 

...

None of them want to allay my fears by actually explaining how going Transatlantic will actually work if there's nothing of substance on offer in North America? Please someone, help me understand this?

You are like an artist who paints with only two colours on their palette. I think there are many more aspects of expansion that are as important as the only 2 things you are willing to discuss.

As I said, I have tried before to engage with you (and others), but you ignore everything else that I say. I will not repeat myself, but I will refer you to my previous points (the two in bold being the most comprehensive):

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/341451-should-to-catalan-and-toronto-breakaway-form-their-own-league/page/3/&tab=comments#comment-4086160

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/340957-clubs-vote-in-favour-of-new-york-and-ottawa/page/22/&tab=comments#comment-4074448

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/340957-clubs-vote-in-favour-of-new-york-and-ottawa/page/22/&tab=comments#comment-4074447

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/338858-boston/page/3/&tab=comments#comment-4040084

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/338684-eric-perez-buys-hemel’s-licence-with-plans-to-create-second-canadian-club-merged-threads/page/11/&tab=comments#comment-4038907

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/338684-eric-perez-buys-hemel’s-licence-with-plans-to-create-second-canadian-club-merged-threads/page/11/&tab=comments#comment-4036965

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/336195-toronto/page/4/&tab=comments#comment-3994765

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/334846-toronto/page/23/&tab=comments#comment-3977513

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/334550-brian-mcdermott-new-toronto-wolfpack-coach/page/3/&tab=comments#comment-3964299

And to directly respond to your 2 issues:

• it will take many years to develop SL calibre players in Canada. The WP have done a little to get this going, and could do more. I think they believe they need to establish the sport as something to aspire to first. I also think there needs to be more money in the game so that RL contracts appeal to players from other sports.
• I see nothing wrong with temporarily modestly diluting the pool of players as new teams are carefully added. The NHL went from 6 to 12 teams in 1967. The new teams were mostly terrible and not competitive at first. In 1973 one of them (the Philadelphia Flyers) won the Stanley Cup. I would not expand that quickly, but this extreme example makes my point. More teams will grow the sport, bring in more money, and that will - over time - grow the player pool.
• Like domestic production, a large NA TV contract will follow the growth of a few successful teams.

My fundamental disagreement with you though is that expansion means expanding the league, adding teams, not replacing heartland teams as new teams are added. No supporter of the Wolfpack wants to hurt existing teams.

 

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, John WP Fan said:

 

You are like an artist who paints with only two colours on their palette. I think there are many more aspects of expansion that are as important as the only 2 things you are willing to discuss.

As I said, I have tried before to engage with you (and others), but you ignore everything else that I say. I will not repeat myself, but I will refer you to my previous points (the two in bold being the most comprehensive):

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/341451-should-to-catalan-and-toronto-breakaway-form-their-own-league/page/3/&tab=comments#comment-4086160

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/340957-clubs-vote-in-favour-of-new-york-and-ottawa/page/22/&tab=comments#comment-4074448

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/340957-clubs-vote-in-favour-of-new-york-and-ottawa/page/22/&tab=comments#comment-4074447

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/338858-boston/page/3/&tab=comments#comment-4040084

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/338684-eric-perez-buys-hemel’s-licence-with-plans-to-create-second-canadian-club-merged-threads/page/11/&tab=comments#comment-4038907

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/338684-eric-perez-buys-hemel’s-licence-with-plans-to-create-second-canadian-club-merged-threads/page/11/&tab=comments#comment-4036965

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/336195-toronto/page/4/&tab=comments#comment-3994765

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/334846-toronto/page/23/&tab=comments#comment-3977513

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/334550-brian-mcdermott-new-toronto-wolfpack-coach/page/3/&tab=comments#comment-3964299

And to directly respond to your 2 issues:

• it will take many years to develop SL calibre players in Canada. The WP have done a little to get this going, and could do more. I think they believe they need to establish the sport as something to aspire to first. I also think there needs to be more money in the game so that RL contracts appeal to players from other sports.
• I see nothing wrong with temporarily modestly diluting the pool of players as new teams are carefully added. The NHL went from 6 to 12 teams in 1967. The new teams were mostly terrible and not competitive at first. In 1973 one of them (the Philadelphia Flyers) won the Stanley Cup. I would not expand that quickly, but this extreme example makes my point. More teams will grow the sport, bring in more money, and that will - over time - grow the player pool.
• Like domestic production, a large NA TV contract will follow the growth of a few successful teams.

My fundamental disagreement with you though is that expansion means expanding the league, adding teams, not replacing heartland teams as new teams are added. No supporter of the Wolfpack wants to hurt existing teams.

 

I wouldn't bother mate he/she thrives on repeating the same point over and over and when that debates done he moves onto the next. Notice there is little comment on anything other than Toronto? You'll never persuade him and can't win.

[John WP Fan]

13 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I wouldn't bother mate he/she thrives on repeating the same point over and over and when that debates done he moves onto the next. Notice there is little comment on anything other than Toronto? You'll never persuade him and can't win.

Yeah, I do see that. I just wanted to make it clear that the claim that we are ignoring his arguments is completely untrue. But this will probably be the last time to try to engage, unless he suddenly starts discussing in earnest instead of merely repeating the same tired lines.

[Jayme2020]

14 hours ago, Raumati Rugby said:

If you think Argyle would take SL to court then you're obviously naive. Say he wins and they are made to accept him, the following year they change the structure, put it to a 12 chairmen vote and he's gone, 11-1. Then there's the claim of the strength of their hand. As Parksider has repeated once or twice, there's no TV revenue and no development on the horizon either....2 key ingredients to them being INVITED.

Don't underestimate the SL chairmen....Toronto will be invited to the top table if there's something in it for the other 11 sides.

The thing is it could be tied up in the court in Canada for years.