Can Ralph Rimmer get Ottawa to the starting gate?

[Manxmanc]

3 minutes ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

you need doers, not talkers.

we have seen no evidence of anything in any form being done.

 

I'd still take a punt on it coming to fruition.

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

2 hours ago, Manxmanc said:

I'd still take a punt on it coming to fruition.

i would be asking myself why the two year delay.

 

[TIWIT]

9 minutes ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

i would be asking myself why the two year delay.

 

To quote Perez: "There’s no stumbling blocks as far as we’re concerned; we’ve been ready to go for eight months.”  Obviously RFL disagrees, and of course the longer it is postponed the less likely it is to proceed. I would suspect it's a squabble over money. Time will tell.

[Oxford]

12 minutes ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

i would be asking myself why the two year delay.

 

That's easy the RFL stook their toe in the water with TWP and were shocked it was wet when they pulled it out! Ask the people who ran PSG they'll tell you.

[Big Picture]

47 minutes ago, Oxford said:

That's easy the RFL stook their toe in the water with TWP and were shocked it was wet when they pulled it out! Ask the people who ran PSG they'll tell you.

What do you know about PSG which the rest of us don't?

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

1 hour ago, TIWIT said:

To quote Perez: "There’s no stumbling blocks as far as we’re concerned; we’ve been ready to go for eight months.”  Obviously RFL disagrees, and of course the longer it is postponed the less likely it is to proceed. I would suspect it's a squabble over money. Time will tell.

never heard of fake it to make it?

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

1 hour ago, Oxford said:

That's easy the RFL stook their toe in the water with TWP and were shocked it was wet when they pulled it out! Ask the people who ran PSG they'll tell you.

PSG I dont think ever was PSG it looked like a Super League venture where they licensed the "PSG" name.

Until someone comes out with a plan i am not seeing this as anything other than a personal marketing platform for Perez.

 

[Sports Prophet]

Can Ralph Rimmer get Ottawa to the starting gate?

heck, I doubt he can get himself to his own front gate unattended 

[TheReaper]

 

It's out of the question.  It's v difficult even for an experienced union player.  I'm a big fan of Perez but I think he's wrong on this one.

There are kids in Canadian high school,  right now,  who will be in the NFL one day, who only started playing in high school. 

There are also kids in Canadian high school, right now,  who will be in Super Rugby or the English Premiership,  who only started playing rugby in high school. 

How do I know this? Because thats currently the case. Most people don't start playing either sport until high school,  and a handful manage to make it. Not tons every year, but maybe one every couple of years.

I think it's relatively arrogant to think that RL is so special it can't be done. But first,  kids have to know the sport exists, second, have a pathway to get there, and thirdly, see it as worth the endeavour. 

[TheReaper]

 

 

Double post.

[Tre Cool]

 

There are kids in Canadian high school,  right now,  who will be in the NFL one day, who only started playing in high school. 

There are also kids in Canadian high school, right now,  who will be in Super Rugby or the English Premiership,  who only started playing rugby in high school. 

How do I know this? Because thats currently the case. Most people don't start playing either sport until high school,  and a handful manage to make it. Not tons every year, but maybe one every couple of years.

I think it's relatively arrogant to think that RL is so special it can't be done. But first,  kids have to know the sport exists, second, have a pathway to get there, and thirdly, see it as worth the endeavour. 

When they talk about current athletes converting I assume they mean adults already playing elite sport.  I don't believe they can transition successfully to elite RL, maybe a good union player can MAYBE.  If you're talking about high school kids at 14/15 years of age who start playing RL now, then maybe they can but they will be way behind all the kids in UK/OZ that start playing far younger.

This isn't about RL being special (although it is uniquely demanding in lots of ways) but about the reality of elite pro sports.

[Tommygilf]

 

To quote Perez: "There’s no stumbling blocks as far as we’re concerned; we’ve been ready to go for eight months.”  Obviously RFL disagrees, and of course the longer it is postponed the less likely it is to proceed. I would suspect it's a squabble over money. Time will tell.

It also took the RFL months and months to organise a club vote and approval. 

By the time they got around to being approved, most players had been signed up for 2020. A squad assembled in that scenario would not have been ideal especially considering they're having to sort everything else out for the club.

[fairfolly]

R.L. and R.U. two completely different games. Anybody who expects R.U. players to immediately fit into R.L. need their heads examining.

[ojx]

 

When they talk about current athletes converting I assume they mean adults already playing elite sport.  I don't believe they can transition successfully to elite RL, maybe a good union player can MAYBE.  If you're talking about high school kids at 14/15 years of age who start playing RL now, then maybe they can but they will be way behind all the kids in UK/OZ that start playing far younger.

This isn't about RL being special (although it is uniquely demanding in lots of ways) but about the reality of elite pro sports.

I think players could transition, but RL pays so poorly that there is little motivation. 

[Big Picture]

 

I think players could transition, but RL pays so poorly that there is little motivation. 

Good point.  Even SL pays only a little better than the minor-league CFL.

[fighting irish]

 

I think players could transition, but RL pays so poorly that there is little motivation. 

No-one has mentioned this yet but it is a major factor.

Would you, as Argyle or Perez, pay a significant sum (just to entice a pro athlete from another sport) and gamble on an improbable outcome, when for the same money, you could come to Super League or NRL and find the finished article?

If you could get a union player or a Canadian footballer for half the price of pro rugby league player you might be more inclined to gamble on them.

I don't know what the market is like (wages) in Canadian football (or Canadian rugby union/sevens for that matter) but if their earnings are comparable with SL then why would Argyle or Perez, (or the chosen athlete, for that matter,) take the chance on a potentially embarrassing, damaging and very costly failure?

If they really mean business I think they'd have to begin the process with Academy (or ideally younger) players, nurturing them in a professional environment for a few years before offering Senior Super League contracts to the best of them. 

[Oxford]

 

What do you know about PSG which the rest of us don't?

The RFL and Mo got rid and legged it! Sort of Normal Service being resumed really.

[Big Picture]

 

No-one has mentioned this yet but it is a major factor.

Would you, as Argyle or Perez, pay a significant sum (just to entice a pro athlete from another sport) and gamble on an improbable outcome, when for the same money, you could come to Super League or NRL and find the finished article?

If you could get a union player or a Canadian footballer for half the price of pro rugby league player you might be more inclined to gamble on them.

I don't know what the market is like (wages) in Canadian football (or Canadian rugby union/sevens for that matter) but if their earnings are comparable with SL then why would Argyle or Perez, (or the chosen athlete, for that matter,) take the chance on a potentially embarrassing, damaging and very costly failure?

If they really mean business I think they'd have to begin the process with Academy (or ideally younger) players, nurturing them in a professional environment for a few years before offering Senior Super League contracts to the best of them. 

The SL cap of 1.825 million £ or 2.608 million US$ for the top 25 players works out to an average of 104,320 US$ each.  The CFL cap of 5.2 million C$ covers for 56 players per franchise, making the average 92,857 C$ or 71,560 US$.  Both are well below MLS, which has a cap of 4.035 million US$ for the top 20 players, an average of 201,750 US$.

SL pay is definitely in the minor-league range by our standards over here.

[Big Picture]

 

The RFL and Mo got rid and legged it! Sort of Normal Service being resumed really.

LOL, I meant what do you know about PSG's setup, costs and revenues in comparison to Catalans, Toulouse and Toronto?

[fighting irish]

 

The SL cap of 1.825 million £ or 2.608 million US$ for the top 25 players works out to an average of 104,320 US$ each.  The CFL cap of 5.2 million C$ covers for 56 players per franchise, making the average 92,857 C$ or 71,560 US$.

That puts SL pay in the minor-league range by our standards over here.

It seems from your figures that super league pay about 50% more than CFL then. So a player may be tempted to cross over. 

Whether its worth the gamble, for the owners is another matter.

They need some ''moneyball'' type analysis from the scouts to unearth the optimal choices (or ''best buys'' i.e. highest likelihood of success vs lowest cost) to approach.

If only that kind of statistical process existed in our game (and CFL).

Keep dreaming F.I., where there's a will there's a way. 

[ojx]

 

Good point.  Even SL pays only a little better than the minor-league CFL.

Plus they can't get  work permit for the U.K. very easily.

[Big Picture]

 

It seems from your figures that super league pay about 50% more than CFL then. So a player may be tempted to cross over. 

Whether its worth the gamble, for the owners is another matter.

They need some ''moneyball'' type analysis from the scouts to unearth the optimal choices (or ''best buys'' i.e. highest likelihood of success vs lowest cost) to approach.

If only that kind of statistical process existed in our game (and CFL).

Keep dreaming F.I., where there's a will there's a way. 

SL paying about 50% more than CFL doesn't say a lot for it though, because both are so far below what major league athletes are paid now.  Players without much of a shot at the CFL (let alone the NFL) will be the only players who might be tempted.

Canadians are likely better prospects than Usonians, because many of the Canadians also played RU in high school and therefore have more transferable skills.

Defensive players are likely better prospects than offensive players, because they already know how to play defense and can adapt well on that side of the ball with some adjustments in their play (and greater fitness levels of course), and teaching a defensive player the offensive side of the game will likely be much easier than the reverse.

How to make the idea tempting to the right sort of players without offering better money is a whole different matter though.

[TIWIT]

 

How to make the idea tempting to the right sort of players without offering better money is a whole different matter though.

That one line pretty much sums up the entire situation,

[Big Picture]

 

 

How to make the idea tempting to the right sort of players without offering better money is a whole different matter though.

That one line pretty much sums up the entire situation,

Yet another reason why this whole initiative would be better handled via a whole new transatlantic league outside the existing UK structure, set up and run along all the same lines as major North American pro leagues so as to attract the sort of backing needed.  I can't see it happening any other way.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

 

R.L. and R.U. two completely different games. Anybody who expects R.U. players to immediately fit into R.L. need their heads examining.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/rugby-union/47295563

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/rugby-league/49194205