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Generational divide Great Britain or England poll


Generational divide Great Britain or England poll  

154 members have voted

  1. 1. Should we play internationals as GB or England?

    • Great Britain I’m aged 40+
      46
    • England I’m aged 40+
      52
    • Great Britain I’m under 40
      20
    • England I’m under 40
      36


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6 hours ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

No GB -

No Clive Sullivan, Billy Boston, Jonathan Davies, Gus Risman, George Fairbairn, Lewis Jones, Iestyn Harris, David Watkins, Scott Gibbs, Terry Price, Alan Tait, John Devereaux, Brian Carney, Roy Francis, Berwyn Jones, Maurice Richards, Johnny Ring, Scott Quinnell, Anthony Sullivan, Allan Bateman, John Bevan, Colin Dixon, Kevin Ellis, Rowland Phillips, Glyn Shaw, Hugh Waddell, Tony Fisher, Mark Jones, John Mantle, Paul Moriarty, David Bishop, Ike Owens, Dave Valentine, Charlie Renilson, John Warlow and many, many others playing at the very top level of the sport or likely involved with the game as they were/are...what a hole that would leave ..why some in RL want to willingly commit its suicide in so many areas is a complete mystery. 

All would have qualified for England (if they so wished) by residence. It never stopped Jim Sullivan or George Fairbairn to name but two. Some of those were either English born or moved here when very young.

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7 hours ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

No GB -

No Clive Sullivan, Billy Boston, Jonathan Davies, Gus Risman, George Fairbairn, Lewis Jones, Iestyn Harris, David Watkins, Scott Gibbs, Terry Price, Alan Tait, John Devereaux, Brian Carney, Roy Francis, Berwyn Jones, Maurice Richards, Johnny Ring, Scott Quinnell, Anthony Sullivan, Allan Bateman, John Bevan, Colin Dixon, Kevin Ellis, Rowland Phillips, Glyn Shaw, Hugh Waddell, Tony Fisher, Mark Jones, John Mantle, Paul Moriarty, David Bishop, Ike Owens, Dave Valentine, Charlie Renilson, John Warlow and many, many others playing at the very top level of the sport or likely involved with the game as they were/are...what a hole that would leave ..why some in RL want to willingly commit its suicide in so many areas is a complete mystery. 

The only time these guys ever got to play international rugby in Wales was for Wales. GB didn't give a #### about actually playing across GB. In all those decades it never played a test outside the M62 or London. Great Britain, like it or not, was a convenient way to get Welsh RU players into the national team.

We have no Welsh RU players anymore, the concept makes no sense in 2019, other than to a few nostalgic middle aged men. The almost none existent vibe around this GB tour shows it. 

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1 hour ago, deluded pom? said:

All would have qualified for England (if they so wished) by residence. It never stopped Jim Sullivan or George Fairbairn to name but two. Some of those were either English born or moved here when very young.

You've highlighted here why GB is so important. Without GB, any quality Welsh players will either commit to England via residency or just not play for Wales outside of World Cups because their fixtures aren't high profile enough, consequently weakening the Welsh team.

So GB can be a valuable tool to help strengthen the likes of Wales and Scotland. Unfortunately, the powers-that-be don't seem to understand this either, and have simply replaced home nations activity with a Lions tour, instead of complementing it.

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15 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

You've highlighted here why GB is so important. Without GB, any quality Welsh players will either commit to England via residency or just not play for Wales outside of World Cups because their fixtures aren't high profile enough, consequently weakening the Welsh team.

So GB can be a valuable tool to help strengthen the likes of Wales and Scotland. Unfortunately, the powers-that-be don't seem to understand this either, and have simply replaced home nations activity with a Lions tour, instead of complementing it.

Nonsense.

The solution to the first problem is to organise more fixtures for Wales. 

I don't see how GB taking Welsh players away from playing games in Wales (because they NEVER play in Wales under the GB moniker) strengthens the game?

The biggest problem for international rugby league is the lack of international rugby league - NOT whether we should be GB or England.

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14 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Nonsense.

The solution to the first problem is to organise more fixtures for Wales. 

I don't see how GB taking Welsh players away from playing games in Wales (because they NEVER play in Wales under the GB moniker) strengthens the game?

The biggest problem for international rugby league is the lack of international rugby league - NOT whether we should be GB or England.

Did you actually read my post properly? If you had, you would have seen that I am in agreement with much of what you say.

However, organising more fixtures for Wales is only part of the solution. If these extra fixtures are low-profile against the likes of Serbia or Jamaica, then they will do little to enthuse people to be involved. The prospect of a GB tour has enthused the likes of Regan Grace to be involved, whereas last year he didn't make himself available for Wales's internationals.

Now if Wales were playing in a Euro Championships this Summer against the likes of England and Scotland, and it was an opportunity to put himself in the frame for selection for GB in the Autumn, that might be a different story.

But to simply dismiss some valid points as "nonsense" shows a level of inflexibility to engage with what is a nuanced debate.

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2 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Did you actually read my post properly? If you had, you would have seen that I am in agreement with much of what you say.

However, organising more fixtures for Wales is only part of the solution. If these extra fixtures are low-profile against the likes of Serbia or Jamaica, then they will do little to enthuse people to be involved. The prospect of a GB tour has enthused the likes of Regan Grace to be involved, whereas last year he didn't make himself available for Wales's internationals.

Now if Wales were playing in a Euro Championships this Summer against the likes of England and Scotland, and it was an opportunity to put himself in the frame for selection for GB in the Autumn, that might be a different story.

But to simply dismiss some valid points as "nonsense" shows a level of inflexibility to engage with what is a nuanced debate.

I agree. GB, along with the World cup, can be used as a vehicle to ensure commitment to Wales, Scotland (and Ireland?) by giving players from there the big stages to perform on. 

My only issue is that GB is being used by the RFL to replace England etc. which it should not. Its pretty ridiculous that in the year of a GB tour down under NONE of the players on the tour will have played an international this year by the time we line up against the Kiwis. That is shockingly bad organisation and preparation. 

The unwillingness/inability to organise an Anglo-Welsh test in a calendar year or the fact that England have only EVER played Scotland ONCE (in the very entertaining, if freezing, 2016 4 nations game) means I have no faith that my aspiration for GB could be realised. 

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3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I agree. GB, along with the World cup, can be used as a vehicle to ensure commitment to Wales, Scotland (and Ireland?) by giving players from there the big stages to perform on. 

My only issue is that GB is being used by the RFL to replace England etc. which it should not. Its pretty ridiculous that in the year of a GB tour down under NONE of the players on the tour will have played an international this year by the time we line up against the Kiwis. That is shockingly bad organisation and preparation. 

The unwillingness/inability to organise an Anglo-Welsh test in a calendar year or the fact that England have only EVER played Scotland ONCE (in the very entertaining, if freezing, 2016 4 nations game) means I have no faith that my aspiration for GB could be realised. 

Completely agree. The home nations and GB could complement each other perfectly, in a well-structured extensive international programme. Unfortunately this year's somewhat bodged GB tour replacing all home nations activity is precisely how it shouldn't work, IMO.

What is frustrating is that the level of discussion about GB seems to have degenerated into a binary argument similar to Brexit, where people are either for England and against GB, or vice versa. From some quarters there doesn't seem to be any willingness to entertain a more reasoned and nuanced discussion that proposes that there could be an argument for both.

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3 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Completely agree. The home nations and GB could complement each other perfectly, in a well-structured extensive international programme. Unfortunately this year's somewhat bodged GB tour replacing all home nations activity is precisely how it shouldn't work, IMO.

What is frustrating is that the level of discussion about GB seems to have degenerated into a binary argument similar to Brexit, where people are either for England and against GB, or vice versa. From some quarters there doesn't seem to be any willingness to entertain a more reasoned and nuanced discussion that proposes that there could be an argument for both.

I see what you mean. In the real world however I think we have to take a side. Whilst I'd love GB to be here in a complimentary format that players from across our Islands want to play for (even those playing in the other code), I just don't see it happening with the current leadership of the game. In that world I have to support England, Wales etc being separate nations until a time the leadership of our game works out how to make GB fit in a complimentary fashion.

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1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

I see what you mean. In the real world however I think we have to take a side. Whilst I'd love GB to be here in a complimentary format that players from across our Islands want to play for (even those playing in the other code), I just don't see it happening with the current leadership of the game. In that world I have to support England, Wales etc being separate nations until a time the leadership of our game works out how to make GB fit in a complimentary fashion.

That's a fair point. Unfortunately I can't see the current leadership organising a meaningful and worthwhile fixture list for the separate home nations either. As you pointed out in your earlier post, the fact that England have played Scotland only once since GB disbanded in 2007 is absolutely criminal. With the current scenario, I can't really see the home nations developing because their international programme isn't a sufficiently attractive carrot to entice the best players to play.

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1 minute ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

That's a fair point. Unfortunately I can't see the current leadership organising a meaningful and worthwhile fixture list for the separate home nations either. As you pointed out in your earlier post, the fact that England have played Scotland only once since GB disbanded in 2007 is absolutely criminal. With the current scenario, I can't really see the home nations developing because their international programme isn't a sufficiently attractive carrot to entice the best players to play.

Exactly, but the same people who run GB would also have to organise these home internationals and we've seen how they've done with that.

I guarantee if we play as GB in an incoming Kangaroos tour next year (rather than as England) then all 3 game will be in England. 

As much as we bash the Aussies for their apathy to the international game we in the Northern Hemisphere have done almost zilch for our neighbours whereas there is an Oceania cup this year down under involving both NZ and OZ. We instead have club loop fixtures and no internationals. As you say our attitude towards Scotland, Wales, France and Ireland is criminal. 

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6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Exactly, but the same people who run GB would also have to organise these home internationals and we've seen how they've done with that.

Alas I feel the same...

6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I guarantee if we play as GB in an incoming Kangaroos tour next year (rather than as England) then all 3 game will be in England. 

Yes I expect you're right, which is a shame.

7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

As much as we bash the Aussies for their apathy to the international game we in the Northern Hemisphere have done almost zilch for our neighbours whereas there is an Oceania cup this year down under involving both NZ and OZ. We instead have club loop fixtures and no internationals. As you say our attitude towards Scotland, Wales, France and Ireland is criminal. 

Completely agree. Living in a non-heartlands area, it is obvious that the best tool rugby league has for raising its profile is the international game. Nothing else engages the general public in the same way. It's the reason I got hooked on the sport in the first place. The fact that England don't have annual fixtures against France and the home nations is a disgrace and incredibly short-sighted.

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2 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

You've highlighted here why GB is so important. Without GB, any quality Welsh players will either commit to England via residency or just not play for Wales outside of World Cups because their fixtures aren't high profile enough, consequently weakening the Welsh team.

So GB can be a valuable tool to help strengthen the likes of Wales and Scotland. Unfortunately, the powers-that-be don't seem to understand this either, and have simply replaced home nations activity with a Lions tour, instead of complementing it.

But that wasn't Marty's argument. He said no GB no long list of Welsh and Scottish players which is rubbish as 'spud pointed out they came to RL for money not international caps.

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3 hours ago, Scubby said:

The only time these guys ever got to play international rugby in Wales was for Wales. GB didn't give a #### about actually playing across GB. In all those decades it never played a test outside the M62 or London. Great Britain, like it or not, was a convenient way to get Welsh RU players into the national team.

We have no Welsh RU players anymore, the concept makes no sense in 2019, other than to a few nostalgic middle aged men. The almost none existent vibe around this GB tour shows it. 

GB was actually the result of trying to have a more inclusive name for the welsh and Scottish players that were playing for England's national rugby league team. But I think you right as to why they stuck with Great Britain for so long was due to the welsh influx.

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2 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

You've highlighted here why GB is so important. Without GB, any quality Welsh players will either commit to England via residency or just not play for Wales outside of World Cups because their fixtures aren't high profile enough, consequently weakening the Welsh team.

So GB can be a valuable tool to help strengthen the likes of Wales and Scotland. Unfortunately, the powers-that-be don't seem to understand this either, and have simply replaced home nations activity with a Lions tour, instead of complementing it.

So the real issue is the lack of tests. Having GB won't change that though if Wales need more tests than the solution is to give them more tests. Lions tours never compliment national sides the RU lions have proved this. What compliments national sides is that they spend more time together due to most of the time players being separate due to club duties. Having GB lions tour isn't going t  benefit the national sides as a whole but only those players who went on tour. In RL's case it will be a huge benefit for England as they make up the bulk of the GB team.

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2 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Did you actually read my post properly? If you had, you would have seen that I am in agreement with much of what you say.

However, organising more fixtures for Wales is only part of the solution. If these extra fixtures are low-profile against the likes of Serbia or Jamaica, then they will do little to enthuse people to be involved. The prospect of a GB tour has enthused the likes of Regan Grace to be involved, whereas last year he didn't make himself available for Wales's internationals.

Now if Wales were playing in a Euro Championships this Summer against the likes of England and Scotland, and it was an opportunity to put himself in the frame for selection for GB in the Autumn, that might be a different story.

But to simply dismiss some valid points as "nonsense" shows a level of inflexibility to engage with what is a nuanced debate.

Regan Grace playing with England national players still won't help wales. Teams need to actually play with each other more to get better.

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7 minutes ago, Themusician_2 said:

So the real issue is the lack of tests. Having GB won't change that though if Wales need more tests than the solution is to give them more tests. Lions tours never compliment national sides the RU lions have proved this. What compliments national sides is that they spend more time together due to most of the time players being separate due to club duties. Having GB lions tour isn't going t  benefit the national sides as a whole but only those players who went on tour. In RL's case it will be a huge benefit for England as they make up the bulk of the GB team.

What's your solution? What games are you going to put in place for Wales to help them attract and retain players? Theoretically speaking, that is.

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

I agree. GB, along with the World cup, can be used as a vehicle to ensure commitment to Wales, Scotland (and Ireland?) by giving players from there the big stages to perform on. 

My only issue is that GB is being used by the RFL to replace England etc. which it should not. Its pretty ridiculous that in the year of a GB tour down under NONE of the players on the tour will have played an international this year by the time we line up against the Kiwis. That is shockingly bad organisation and preparation. 

The unwillingness/inability to organise an Anglo-Welsh test in a calendar year or the fact that England have only EVER played Scotland ONCE (in the very entertaining, if freezing, 2016 4 nations game) means I have no faith that my aspiration for GB could be realised. 

what's stopping a player from committing to Wales without GB? 

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1 hour ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Completely agree. The home nations and GB could complement each other perfectly, in a well-structured extensive international programme. Unfortunately this year's somewhat bodged GB tour replacing all home nations activity is precisely how it shouldn't work, IMO.

What is frustrating is that the level of discussion about GB seems to have degenerated into a binary argument similar to Brexit, where people are either for England and against GB, or vice versa. From some quarters there doesn't seem to be any willingness to entertain a more reasoned and nuanced discussion that proposes that there could be an argument for both.

Great Britain rugby league is England! Without our market ,player base and resources it doesn't exist we have full control. The Scottish, "Irish" and Welsh do not have the same level of quality and resources in this football code than England have. England will forever dominate this team. 

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3 minutes ago, Themusician_2 said:

Great Britain rugby league is England! Without our market ,player base and resources it doesn't exist we have full control. The Scottish, "Irish" and Welsh do not have the same level of quality and resources in this football code than England have. England will forever dominate this team. 

I don't think anyone on here disagrees with that. But I've explained in numerous previous posts how I think GB can act as a tool to help enthuse the best of the other home nations players (cases in point Ben Flower and Regan Grace).

I'd really like to hear your ideas on how to best develop these other nations' international programmes that would enthuse players to want to be a part of it, and consequently help to develop the international game. 

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6 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

So the issue with Wales is that they are not getting any big tests. The solution is so simple give them high level test matches.  Bangladesh can organise a high level test cricket game it is simply inexcusable for RL not to do it. But he is right what is more attractive at the moment as a player. Playing for GB in a Kangaroo tour or playing for Wales against not so great opposition and having a lack of games. I'm going with GB.

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Just now, Themusician_2 said:

So the issue with Wales is that they are not getting any big tests. The solution is so simple give them high level test matches.  Bangladesh can organise a high level test cricket game it is simply inexcusable for RL not to do it. But he is right what is more attractive at the moment as a player. Playing for GB in a Kangaroo tour or playing for Wales against not so great opposition and having a lack of games. I'm going with GB.

Totally agree. However, playing for your qualifying nation aught to be a prerequisite for getting in the GB squad.

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