WHATS GOING ON AT ODSAL

[Konkrete]

It's interesting isn't it how the details change but the tone continues.  In the last two weeks we've had stories on social media and also in the trade press strongly suggesting financial problems.  The two CCJs (c£2.5k) have been the catalyst with rumours and speculation running to a very damaging 'will the players get paid this month?'.  The CCJs have been dealt with and the players have been paid on time, as in every month that AC has been in charge.  Even last month, when the last day fell on a Sunday, we had all manner of baseless speculation.  Thank the lord for the likes of Aaron Bower who confirmed on Twitter last night that the players had been paid yesterday on time, just like they have been every month.  Sadly Aaron provided no updates on the salary run of other clubs.  This is damaging for the club, it's business partners, the players, the staff, and of course the fans.

Now that those scare stories have been pricked we move onto the ground, cheating the salary cap, cheating Fev in the 1970s in a GB game, cheating Fev for the transfer of Paul Newlove in the 1990s (like to know what the accusations are with those two), and being an unnecessary drain on the unwilling BD tax payer.

Carry on lads, you're in the ten and pressing, but you ain't coming through.

[Hemi4561]

4 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Except, except except.

This reply implies that you cannot. Put up or shut up.

[saddleworth]

On ‎29‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 22:41, Blind side johnny said:

But why should they?

Is this truly the best way that a council could spend it's money in current circumstances?

Its the most attractive landfill site in Yorkshire.

[Hemi4561]

12 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I don't need to, you have already done it for me. Except except except 

Put up or shut up,either with or without strictures. You seem to have totally lost the plot on how a forum works.You have made reference as to what my views on certain matters and referencing posts I have made.

Quote them.

[dixiedean]

4 hours ago, Wolford6 said:

It's not funny. I think Chalmers is weighing in because to lose the ground would be to lose additional and ancillary income that is available to the club (and himself obviously).

• We host the Gay Pride event and the stadium has been used for film sets. We could put on one-day or weekend music festivals.
• The Coral Stand is actually a large modern corporate-hospitality facility with only a couple of hundred seats. It would make a great Conference venue and I honestly don't know why its not used as a disco-club every Friday and Saturday night; it's got a huge carpark and few neighours.
• There was certainly a proposal to bring back speedway round the pitch but I think it would actually be an ideal greyhound track ... open several nights a week.

A disco club? That's one way of bringing the glory days of the Seventies back, I suppose.

[Blind side johnny]

2 hours ago, Konkrete said:

It's interesting isn't it how the details change but the tone continues.  In the last two weeks we've had stories on social media and also in the trade press strongly suggesting financial problems.  The two CCJs (c£2.5k) have been the catalyst with rumours and speculation running to a very damaging 'will the players get paid this month?'.  The CCJs have been dealt with and the players have been paid on time, as in every month that AC has been in charge.  Even last month, when the last day fell on a Sunday, we had all manner of baseless speculation.  Thank the lord for the likes of Aaron Bower who confirmed on Twitter last night that the players had been paid yesterday on time, just like they have been every month.  Sadly Aaron provided no updates on the salary run of other clubs.  This is damaging for the club, it's business partners, the players, the staff, and of course the fans.

Now that those scare stories have been pricked we move onto the ground, cheating the salary cap, cheating Fev in the 1970s in a GB game, cheating Fev for the transfer of Paul Newlove in the 1990s (like to know what the accusations are with those two), and being an unnecessary drain on the unwilling BD tax payer.

Carry on lads, you're in the ten and pressing, but you ain't coming through.

Maybe it would help if your chairman didn't have a weekly column in the T&A in which he airs his grievances and personal battles with the RFL/Bradford Council etc.? Surely you understand that, in many cases, this is the starting point for the vendettas that you imply.

[paul hicks]

27 minutes ago, TrueBull said:

But as soon as the RFL got involved with Odsal, they created a conflict of Interest which no other club has.

This thing about the "player ban". Whoever leaked it, put the right amount of negative spin on it, at just the right time to maximise the damage done. Obviously SL has it's own cap, but the championship clubs all negotiate their individual season cap - so technically, all championship clubs have a player ban once they reach their cap level. To go above that, they just have to convince the RFL on a case-by-case basis, that they can afford it. Same for Bradford.

It wouldn't surprise me that the discussions underway re the stadium could have an impact on the RFL decision to not sign off on a Bradford request.

ah those discussions that Bradford leaked to the press along with a threat if they did not get there own way. now that was a pretty negative leak in the first place.

 

[paul hicks]

2 hours ago, Konkrete said:

  Even last month, when the last day fell on a Sunday, we had all manner of baseless speculation.  

every place I have worked if the end off the month fell on a weekend I was always paid on the Friday so I can see why speculation may have been in order

[TrueBull]

7 minutes ago, paul hicks said:

ah those discussions that Bradford leaked to the press along with a threat if they did not get there own way. now that was a pretty negative leak in the first place.

 

Is think the word you're searching for to describe that is "transparency", which many people have been demanding of various owners of Bradford for about 8years now. Can't really apply that to a live salary cap discussion between a club and the RFL within the current rules.

 

[paul hicks]

6 hours ago, TrueBull said:

Is think the word you're searching for to describe that is "transparency", which many people have been demanding of various owners of Bradford for about 8years now. Can't really apply that to a live salary cap discussion between a club and the RFL within the current rules.

 

well I have never seen slagging off the RFL and complaining all the time described as transparency before . I'm all for transparency so open the books MR Charming and lets put all this stuff to rest . nothing to hide has he ?.

have Bradford now paid both Halifax and Leeds the cup money that should have been paid within 7 days of the game taking place . ok Leeds could afford to wait but why should Halifax have to wait

[thepimp007]

On 31/07/2019 at 10:04, Trojan said:

Distributing discounted tickets in Batley, Dewsbury, Halifax and Keighley is hardly behaviour likely to enamour them to fans of the said clubs.  Saying things like "Bradford and Featherstone" should never be spoken in the same breath was another own goal.  When the Bulls got into trouble many fans I spoke to said "serves them right"   They are not top of most non Bulls fans pops.

What on earth is wrong with a business being proactive? Thats how it has to be looked at. Because my company is based in Wakefield should we not promote our product in surrounding areas? Hate reading the poor tale cried by clubs in the locality when the liklihood was that the Bulls enticed fans who werent going to said local clubs games anyway, and while on the point what did said local clubs do themselves other than sit and wait for new support to come through the gates

[thepimp007]

On 31/07/2019 at 10:43, Lowdesert said:

Take off the Leeds gate and the average is around 4000.  Take off the Bradford game and York drops by a couple of hundred.  

Maybe I should have posted Yorks attendances are half the attendances of Bradford and they're doing ok.

 

 

Edited post

[thepimp007]

On 31/07/2019 at 14:16, MADREDNIGE said:

He also screwed us big time when sending our best players to sub for GB in France when we happened to play them at Odsal! 

hahahahhahaha conspiricy theory of the century

[thepimp007]

19 hours ago, meast said:

Handing out free tickets to people going to a game as well!

But because it's Bradford and we all loved them it's alright, imagine if Wigan had done that?

I can probably say that not many Giants fans over 25 are shedding tears over the demise of "the people's club" if that makes us bad people then so be it.

We had to endure years of ridicule and disgusting stuff thrown about from the terraces at Odsal, as I said previously, what goes around comes around etc.

Oh and I, like many other Huddersfield fans put my hands in my pockets and helped to fill those collection buckets, and despite this, we still got stuff thrown at us from the Bradford fans, not very nice when you're trying to help them out.

There's only so many times people are willing to help out a chronically mismanaged club out.

Sure the feeling will be mutual when Mr Davy has had enough of propping you lot up

[Konkrete]

1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said:

Maybe it would help if your chairman didn't have a weekly column in the T&A in which he airs his grievances and personal battles with the RFL/Bradford Council etc.? Surely you understand that, in many cases, this is the starting point for the vendettas that you imply.

He has a column in the T&A where he says what he thinks. That used to be a trait we were proud of (on this of all days). It’s the Bradford local paper, so if you’ve read it then you’ve probably gone looking for it.  Can’t say I’ve ever gone looking for Davide Longo in the Featherstone Bugle, or whatever it’s called.  But you’ve kind of proved my point. In that it doesn’t really matter what myths and false speculation are laid to rest, some people will always find a route to trying to damage the club. 

Tell us about Peter Fox and the GB game from the 1970s, or the Newlove issue form the 1990s. I feel If we can dig down into these slights from the past we might get some ‘closure’.

[thepimp007]

5 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

"Nobody has ever been able to solve the question of how you make occupancy at Odsal sustainable."  So says Mr Chambers.

In other words Odsal has always been unsustainable. Is that true?

For the club it didnt become unsustainable until the Odsal agreement came into play, the club stupidly took a lump to take on the upkeep. Best decision for BMDC  worst for the club over time

[Angelic Cynic]

5 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

"Nobody has ever been able to solve the question of how you make occupancy at Odsal sustainable."  So says Mr Chambers.

In other words Odsal has always been unsustainable. Is that true?

 

1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said:

Maybe it would help if your chairman didn't have a weekly column in the T&A in which he airs his grievances and personal battles with the RFL/Bradford Council etc.? Surely you understand that, in many cases, this is the starting point for the vendettas that you imply.

   Odsal has been a bone of contention for many a long year.Even around the time of the playing 'glory years'

   https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2002/feb/23/rugbyleague.bradfordbulls

  You will read the criticism of the council;even back then.

    There are some chairs/chairmen at Super League clubs who have discussions with their council.There are other chairs/chairmen in The Championship who also have discussions with their council - all about stadia.

    Do people have a vendetta with the Wakefield chair when he discussed moving to Dewsbury while in discussion with Wakefield council,and the local press reported the matter?

    If only other owners of clubs had a column in the local press and supported a whole-game approach...

[Northern Eel]

10 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

There is a difference between impossible and difficult. But even if it were impossible you have to ask what the alternatives are? Shut down the bulls? Is that somehow better for our game than a succession of fools trying the impossible

It might be that they committed too much on those contracts. It also might not be. There is a correlation between the amount spent on wages and the amount of money brought in through things like ticket sales and sponsorship. If the Bulls fixed operating costs are high, cutting their variable costs isnt the solution. Bringing more money in is.

It staggers me that after the past decade people still think the solution to Bradford's problems is just spend less on wages. As if that hasnt occurred to the multitude of owners they have had and this cutting edge business insight is all they need to prosper. 

If I were a businessman and had contemplated needing to make something from an impossible situation, I wouldn't have invested. What I don't understand is what has actually changed since the takeover that wasn't already the case then. 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

3 hours ago, paul hicks said:

every place I have worked if the end off the month fell on a weekend I was always paid on the Friday so I can see why speculation may have been in order

From reading elsewhere that was usually the case at the Bulls until last month. Apparently lack of communication to the players..... 

[wasginger]

Scotchy, you just don't understand the economics of councils. There is no more money for any groups. How many times in the past 5 years have Bradford had different directors, and yet the position is still the same. even the RL bought  Odsal to allow Bradford to play there, if the rent Bradford had to pay to the RL was too high, then the decision to look for an alternative ground should have been taken.

[Northern Eel]

3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Well clearly they don't believe it is impossible. Difficult maybe, but not impossible. 

There is also a risk/reward question. Bradford were picked up for next to nothing and have growth potential. If they can get to the levels they have proven they can get to previously, and without the millstone around their necks that is odsal, then Bradford have great potential. Much more than most other clubs.

Is this just posturing by the club to the RFL and the Council? It would be a momentous decision to leave Odsal. Presumably this was always on the cards then and it shouldn't be news to anyone. 

[John Drake]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

There is money for many groups and often things like stadiums pay themselves back to councils/areas many times over 

It's not really the rent, but the other costs, council tax, maintenance etc.

This is especially true in what Bradford have apparently been proposing with the stadium forming a big part of a much larger redevelopment. 

Not only that but it doesnt necessarily need to be a cash expenditure for the council. It can be land gifts (that is then redeveloped in exchange for a stadium creating extra revenue for the council through council tax etc) or it can be the backing of a loan to get lower rates like what has happened at headingley

A dose of reality...

https://bradford.moderngov.co.uk/documents/s19382/Leaders%20Budget%20Message%202018-19%20and%202019-20.pdf

The Government’s cuts continue to be hard on the people of Bradford District and this budget inevitably reflects that position.  In 2013/14, the government gave Bradford a core grant of £183 million to fund local services across the district. By 2020, they will have cut that to zero. Every resident has been affected in one way or another, wherever they live. 

Bradford Council doesn't even have enough money to fund essential services these days, despite continuously hiking Council Tax by the maximum allowed every year to offset the cut in central funding.

Much as I love 'em both dearly, neither Bradford Bulls nor Odsal Stadium are essential services.

[JohnM]

From 2020, councils get to keep ALL the revenue from business rates, rather than just 50% as now. 

[John Drake]

38 minutes ago, JohnM said:

From 2020, councils get to keep ALL the revenue from business rates, rather than just 50% as now. 

Great for cities with thriving business sectors, like Leeds, which sucks in all the investment round these parts already, and will simply get even better off as a result.

Not so great for places with lots of empty, boarded up business premises like Bradford.

An extra 50% of very little is still very little.

[paul hicks]

14 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Great for cities with thriving business sectors, like Leeds, which sucks in all the investment round these parts already, and will simply get even better off as a result.

Not so great for places with lots of empty, boarded up business premises like Bradford.

An extra 50% of very little is still very little.

perhaps then west Yorkshire should take a look at amalgamating into say GREATER LEEDS . one large council with better funding to rival Manchester as the northern powerhouse